Trying to Explain the Weird Rewind at the Bridge of Dream

[Lost Melnibonean]

10 hours ago, Walda said:

Oh my. Thanks for this. One of the creepiest qualities of the vampires of Dracula was their ability to evaporate into a Cornwall fog, blow in through an upstairs window, or between the joins of a door, and rematerialise. And of course, as soon as I read of Hardhome I though of those

They could also use this power to prevent their ship from leaving port until the count had finished his business on land. They also had the ability to 'come in on moonlight rays as elemental dust', to warg into any form, to see in the dark:

Like Stoker, GRRM has taken care to have a number of examples of this eeire property before The Winds of Winter blow the deathships down from Hardhome, and also dropped a number of clues as to the laws that check the powers of the undead.

It seems to me now that the Last Kiss of the Red God might be a way of inviting misty others to re-animate a corpse...and share the habitation of it, until it is killed again. In fact, I'm wondering if the Red God is really an enemy of the Others at all - in Westeros he seems to draw his strength from the power of the Seven and the Old Gods and the mortal, to grow stronger on the talismans that would otherwise be employed keeping Others at bay. And he manifests as a deadly shadow (possibly with the face of Stannis - although that could be Catelyn's imagination). 

There is a hint in the culture of the wildlings (ie. "Kissed by Fire" is a lucky sign) And if fire is not the enemy of the Others, what will Dragonfire do?

In Garin's case, the water wizards specifically cursed the dragonlords. @Pain killer Jane your theory that Greyscale (Which, oddly enough, the wildlings know about - wildling mothers being inclined to amputate or murder their children rather than attempt to cure it) only affects those with the blood of Old Valyria seems really plausible to me. We know Shireen has 'Kings blood', and it would be reasonable to assume that Serra, with her Valyrian looks, did too. Volantis would  have a fair amount of Dragonlord blood in its population, especially considering

Fused stone, with no crack or cranny for the fog to seep in. A wall. Black stone,

It is of the same era (give or take a few thousand years) as Storms End, which withstood the wrath of the Storm Gods, the same Gods who dragged Steffon Baratheon and his turtle wife to their watery grave. Perhaps also of the same era as Moat Calin which did not withstand the wrath of the River Gods, and where the Ironborn who held it were slaughtered by foul miasmas.

The fused nature of the stone, and the lack of any mention of oilyness makes it more like Dragonstone, although, like the other fused-stone artifacts we know of (the Valyrian roads, the inner walls of Tyrosh, the fort at Naath), Dragonstone was built after, possibly long after, the Black Wall.

ETA: And now I'm seeing them everywhere

 

Very nice. Breakwater in the Sisters is also made of black basalt, like Moat Cailin across the Bite, where the Singers tried to bring down the hammer of the waters. 

[Isobel Harper]

On 2/28/2017 at 3:16 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

This topic never gets enough attention. Here's my old thread if you want to see what was said a few years ago. 

The Sorrows are filled with fog, a sorcerous fog according to Ysilla. She advised that many boats had been lost in some kind of Bermuda Triangle like phenomenon with restless spirits in the air and tormented souls below the water. Tyrion suggested one of the tormented souls was manifested in a huge stone hand reaching from the water with the tops of two fingers rising above the surface. Was this a natural object that looked like a hand or was it a submerged sculpture? And was there some hint in the object being a hand rather than a head or a sword or something else?

According to legend Garin a prince of the Rhoynish had led a huge army against the Valyrians at Chroyane but they defeated his army and captured him and hung him in a golden cage. He called on the great river to destroy them. The river rose and drowned the invaders. The legend suggested that the Valyrian corpses under the water cause the fog and that a reincarnated Garin leads the stone men as the Shrouded Lord. And Ysilla suggests that the Valyrian corpses walk among the stone men. The current Shrouded Lord was a corsair from the Basilisk Isles, whose native inhabitants have dark skin.

Here is a link to an excerpt from the WOIAF regarding The war between the Valyrians and the Rhoynar...

http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/World_of_Ice_and_Fire_Excerpt_The_Rhoynar

After the stone hand and a few more landmarks they encountered another boat called the Kingfisher. Was there a hint in that name? As they approached the bridge the first time Griff advised that the stone men were not likely to molest them, just to wail at them. Haldon noted that their boat would be hidden by the fog and Tyrion noted that many of the stone men would be blind. As they passed under the bridge that first time the stone men moaned and muttered Most took no more notice of the Shy Maid than of a drifting log.

Immediately after they passed Young Griff confronted Tyrion about Young Griff being everything. At the end of about two minutes worth of conversation, Tyrion revealed his own identity, Griffs identity, and Young Griffs presumed identity. Griff tells him to be quiet and then, shazam, theyre back at the stone hand going in for another run under the bridge.

They passed several of the landmarks Tyrion noticed the first time but they did not pass the Kingfisher. This time a few of the stone men were pointing down at them, And three jumped down to molest them. The first landed on the cabin roof, the second by the tiller. The second was near Ysilla and Duck. Duck knocked him into the water immediately. Griff attacked the other as soon as soon as he came down from the cabin. He was trapped but drew Griff, Duck, Haldon, and Yandry to drive him off the boat.

A third stone man caught them by surprise. Tyrion assumed he was a Summer Islander because of his dark skin, but a corsair from the Basilisk Isles would have had dark skin too. This stone man reached for Young Griff who had just been revealed by Tyrion to be (or presumed to be) the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. He would have taken Young Griff who appeared paralyzed by fear or shock but Tyrion drove him over the side of the boat.

So, Im guessing that Martin was telling the reader that the Shrouded Lord was the reincarnation of Garin and that Garins spirit heard Tyrion reveal that Young Griff was a Targaryen of old Valyria. Through some supernatural power Garins spirit caused the Shy Maids weird rewind so he could capture Young Griff.

Alternatively, perhaps the spirits of old Valyria under the water heard Tyrion but sensed Young Griffs true identity as a Blackfyre, caused the weird rewind, and sent the Shrouded Lord to capture him.

Greyscale madness makes those afflicted hate Valyrian blood.  (On the other - heh! - hand, The Others are afflicted with a disease like GS that makes them hate anyone that is not "alive," not an Other.)  So when Tyrion calls Young Griff "Aegon Targaryen" the Stone Men hate him and want to kill him.  Targaryen or Blackfyre, they hate him.  Either house is descended from dragon riders.  They wouldn't be able to detect Targ or BF anyway.  They choose to attack the boat only AFTER Tyrion calls YG "Aegon."

ETA: It will be interesting to watch Jon Con and Aegon's relationship develop as Jon Con's greyscale worsens.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

9 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Are you being facetious?!    I think it's obvious that both are greenseers.  Also, as I've identified previously, drowning is a metaphor for greenseeing.

I'm not being facetious, though I am being lazy. I have ideas. But I don't think it's obvious the shrouded lord is a greenseer. He certainly could be, but we don't have a ton of info to go on.

[ravenous reader]

1 minute ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I'm not being facetious, though I am being lazy. I have ideas. But I don't think it's obvious the shrouded lord is a greenseer. He certainly could be, but we don't have a ton of info to go on.

Sorry.  It's difficult sometimes to place someone's tone online.  At least, I'm positive Garin was a greenseer.  Anyone who sings a magic song to summon the elements is a greenseer in my book.  It's called 'the song of the earth' or the 'True Tongue' and the manner in which Brandon learnt it from the Children is 'not worth repeating' (that's GRRM being facetious, btw).  Brandon the Builder is another greenseer, yes.