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Suzanna Stormborn

[Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.4

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20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Dany isn't a fighter. She doesn't have a sword. She is not going to fight the Dark Lord.

And she didn't die and wasn't sent back only for one purpose - to defeat Evil Incarnate.

That is Jon's purpose. And when it is over he can die.

He may very well be the promised prince, after all. Because, you know, the promised prince might be sacrificial lamb who is going to pay for the sins of humanity with his blood and life. We don't know what his purpose is or how he can fulfill his destiny. Jesus went up into heaven, too, you know. And Frodo and Gandalf left Middle-earth.

If Jon is the great hero there to save everyone he will die. Since that's clearly his role in the show, and most likely also his role in the books he will die.

I'm afraid the emphasis being placed on Jon's legitimacy invalidates much of your reasoning. Jon could have been the savior by virtue of his Ice and Fire blood without being legitimate. The legitimacy aspect comes into play only for one reason, and that's for him to be the rightful King. So I think you have it backwards. Daenerys's arc has been one of conquest, violence and WINNING a Throne. Jon's will be the one of RULING a kingdom wisely.

Daenerys will be the one that dies in the final battle.

As for Jon's immediate fate and the possiblity of him and Dany having children and so forth, I thought you said he would be an undead wight when he comes back in the books. Again, something that does not fit with the effort to ensure his legitimacy as heir to the Throne. If he is an undead wight as per your vision, both the legitimacy and the possiblity of Dany and him entering into a relationship are invalidated.

Lastly, I have always said Bran is coming back from that cave, and soon too. The Show had no need to change that. The Cave location was cheap, and would not have changed the story much. Bran was always returning to Winterfell. That is where he will reside for eternity. Closing the time loop to the location where the whole story started and ended, Winterfell. A mystical location most likely the site of the original defeat of the Others, 8000 years ago.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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6 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I'm afraid the emphasis being placed on Jon's legitimacy invalidates much of your reasoning. Jon could have been the savior by virtue of his Ice and Fire blood without being legitimate. The legitimacy aspect comes into play only for one reason, and that's for him to be the rightful King. So I think you have it backwards. Daenerys's arc has been one of conquest, violence and WINNING a Throne. Jon's will be the one of RULING a kingdom wisely.

Daenerys will be the one that dies in the final battle.

As for Jon's immediate fate and the possiblity of him and Dany having children and so forth, I thought you said he would be an undead wight when he comes back in the books. Again, something that does not fit with the effort to ensure his legitimacy as heir to the Throne. If he is an undead wight as per your vision, both the legitimacy and the possiblity of Dany and him entering into a relationship are invalidated.

Lastly, I have always said Bran is coming back from that cave, and soon too. The Show had no need to change that. The Cave location was cheap, and would not have changed the story much. Bran was always returning to Winterfell. That is where he will reside for eternity. Closing the time loop to the location where the whole story started and ended, Winterfell. A mystical location most likely the site of the original defeat of the Others, 8000 years ago.

You know that George likes irony, right?

What better irony is there to have the rightful king bend the knee to a woman who is a better ruler than he is? What better irony is there to have the rightful king never to sit the throne but instead have him to sacrifice his life for his people, or even the entire world? Isn't that what a true king should do - live and die for his people, if need be? To give his life to protect them from their enemies? There is no nobler or more heroic action imaginable for a king to lay done his life for his people. And that's what Jon will. Because in the books the Others are not going to defeated in some sort of conventional battle. There will be more to accomplish that. Much more.

Apparently the prophecy prophesied the coming of a prince that was promised. A prince is usually not a bastard. In addition, it is quite clear that nothing in any prophecy anywhere indicates that the promised prince will rule anything. Why should he? He is supposed to save the world. The idea that Jon's true parentage will play any role in the post-war endgame and wrap-up of the series was always completely unfounded. All we can do is speculate what his ancestry and parentage and role in relation to the prophecy is. But there are no actually prophecies or dreams or visions that indicate that he'll survive the last battle or ever sit the Iron Throne.

That is a different matter.

And I never said Jon was going to be a 'wight' in the books. I say he is going to be a 'zombie' in the sense that his body will be reanimated by magical means he will no longer be human in the sense you and I are. Perhaps his heart will beat again, perhaps not. Perhaps he'll have ugly-looking mortal wounds that never heal all over his body, perhaps not. Perhaps his wounds will smoke and his blood ignite swords, perhaps not (the latter is very likely considering that it is very obvious that the entire character and story of Beric Dondarrion is a dialed-down precursor version of Jon Snow after his resurrection).

He will be irrevocably changed. And that's going to be unnatural and not a good thing. Not in this world.

Jon could surely be a king (at Dany's side) while they are fighting the Others. But he is not going to survive the battle. He may not even want to. Because he will no longer be completely human. What can life offer a dead man? Nothing.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

You know that George likes irony, right?

What better irony is there to have the rightful king bend the knee to a woman who is a better ruler than he is? What better irony is there to have the rightful king never to sit the throne but instead have him to sacrifice his life for his people, or even the entire world? Isn't that what a true king should do - live and die for his people, if need be? To give his life to protect them from their enemies? There is no nobler or more heroic action imaginable for a king to lay done his life for his people. And that's what Jon will. Because in the books the Others are not going to defeated in some sort of conventional battle. There will be more to accomplish that. Much more.

Apparently the prophecy prophesied the coming of a prince that was promised. A prince is usually not a bastard. In addition, it is quite clear that nothing in any prophecy anywhere indicates that the promised prince will rule anything. Why should he? He is supposed to save the world. The idea that Jon's true parentage will play any role in the post-war endgame and wrap-up of the series was always completely unfounded. All we can do is speculate what his ancestry and parentage and role in relation to the prophecy is. But there are no actually prophecies or dreams or visions that indicate that he'll survive the last battle or ever sit the Iron Throne.

That is a different matter.

And I never said Jon was going to be a 'wight' in the books. I say he is going to be a 'zombie' in the sense that his body will be reanimated by magical means he will no longer be human in the sense you and I are. Perhaps his heart will beat again, perhaps not. Perhaps he'll have ugly-looking mortal wounds that never heal all over his body, perhaps not. Perhaps his wounds will smoke and his blood ignite swords, perhaps not (the latter is very likely considering that it is very obvious that the entire character and story of Beric Dondarrion is a dialed-down precursor version of Jon Snow after his resurrection).

He will be irrevocably changed. And that's going to be unnatural and not a good thing. Not in this world.

Jon could surely be a king (at Dany's side) while they are fighting the Others. But he is not going to survive the battle. He may not even want to. Because he will no longer be completely human. What can life offer a dead man? Nothing.

You realise you are contradicting parts of your theory as new developments invalidate it. How is Daenerys going to sleep and potentially produce children with a zombie with unhealed wounds all over his body?

Where is Dany a better ruler than Jon? Since this is the Show thread, we are largely using clues from the Show to try and decipher the books. In the last episode, Dany's penchant for burning honorable enemies alive is already indicating that Jon is the better King, and will be the better ruler. Dany is the Alexander the Great. The Conqueror. Jon's arc is that of the bastard who understands the common man, and will therefore be a Great King.

There is no more evidence for Jon dying than there is for Dany dying. In fact, since you love irony so much, how about Dany spending the entire series obsessing with getting back her Throne, only to die soon after finally getting it. Not to mention realizing that there is a better claimant waiting in the wings?

Lastly, the irony in the Samwell scene in the last episode cannot have escaped you. When Gilly reveals that Jon was legimate, Samwell complains that the secret to saving humanity could be in some dusty tome and they would not know it. OBVIOUSLY the hidden meaning is that Gilly indeed did just reveal the secret to saving humanity, and it did indeed come from a dusty tome, and Sam didn't realize it.

By the way, this is once again invalidating one of your earlier hard fought points that Dany is Azor Ahai, despite all of our efforts to persuade you that it is in fact Jon. It seems you are at least admitting that, but clinging to the hope that he will not become King, and will instead die in the final battle.

If you recall, it is not Azor Ahai who dies in the legend. It is his beloved wife. Again, not looking good for Dany, if they end up together.

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It's okay, everybody wins. They're both dying, one 9 months after the other. Their child gets the throne. No need to fight. 

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On 8/11/2017 at 11:49 AM, Cas Stark said:

That large of a departure from the books would mean that the show really can't be relied on as any kind of guide for whatever the author told them the end was.

I think this only applies to characters outside the big six (although I have my doubts about whether Benioff and Weiss are willing to end Arya's story where I think it will end).

Everyone else, I agree, it's up in the air. That being said, I do think Jaime, Cersei, Theon and Asha will end up in roughly the same place in the adaption as in the books (if we ever get them). 

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The reather weak revelation in some dusty tome in the Citadel makes me think that the "proof" in the books will come from some source that the Show has omitted or closed the door on already. So maybe from the High Septon or Connington or a combination of the two.

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On 8/11/2017 at 2:10 PM, lojzelote said:

D&D can be n00bs, but even they should realize that Jaime strangling Cersei should become a much more iconic scene than Arya using her hyperassassin skills yet again on a woman she has never even talked to onscreen before.

I suspect they will not want to mess with the symmetry of the moment either. My own theory on this is that the survivors return to a burned out King's Landing (see Season 2, Episode 10), which is when Jaime strangles Cersei -- after she goes full Aerys and burns the capital down rather than let Daenerys take it. The story always cycles back. 

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1 minute ago, Faint said:

I suspect they will not want to mess with the symmetry of the moment either. My own theory on this is that the survivors return to a burned out King's Landing (see Season 2, Episode 10), which is when Jaime strangles Cersei -- after she goes full Aerys and burns the capital down rather than let Daenerys take it. The story always cycles back. 

Or Arya kills Jaime, assumes his form and then strangles Cersei. Thus combining the two ideas.

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@Lord Varys--

Sorry, but I think @Free Northman Reborn has the better of the argument. Two basic points.

First, the only way to win the Game of Thrones is not to play the Game of Thrones. Dany has been playing the game in some for or other for a long time. Jon never will (but is most likely to win if anyone is going to win).

Second, as to Jon coming back as a "zombie" -- the show cut out what I suspect will be an important difference in the books -- Jon warging into Ghost before he dies. Due to that action, when Jon's body is resurrected, Jon can come back into his body from Ghost and not be a "zombie" but can be the "real" Jon (certainly changed by the experience but not having "lost a part of himself" as apparently happened with Baric and LS). The point of LS was to show that death cannot just be undone without a price (as a response to GRRM's frustration at the way that Gandolf was brought back to life in LotR). That point has already been made with LS -- Jon warging into Ghost allows his resurrection to be different.

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5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The reather weak revelation in some dusty tome in the Citadel makes me think that the "proof" in the books will come from some source that the Show has omitted or closed the door on already. So maybe from the High Septon or Connington or a combination of the two.

Don't forget Howland Reed (who is NOT the High Septon).

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8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Or Arya kills Jaime, assumes his form and then strangles Cersei. Thus combining the two ideas.

That is not remotely similar. It loses all the weight of the idea. The whole point is that Jaime cannot bring himself to kill Cersei like he did Aerys even though he knows she is as bad as he was. This is hinted at repeatedly (i.e., constant paranoia, burning the Tower of the Hand, Qyburn, etc.). That will be the whole tragedy of the thing; that he will not prevent what he prevented before and will only kill her when it is much too late.

And then Daenerys gets to be Queen of Ashes for 9 months before kicking the bucket. 

Edited by Faint

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1 minute ago, Faint said:

That is not remotely similar. It loses all the weight of the idea. The whole point is that Jaime cannot bring himself to kill Cersei like he did Aerys even though he knows she is as bad as he was. This is hinted at repeatedly (i.e., constant paranoia, burning the Tower of the Hand, Qyburn, etc.). That will be the whole tragedy of the thing; that he will not prevent what he prevented before and will only kill her when it is much too late.

And then Daenerys gets to be Queen of Ashes for 9 months before kicking the bucket. 

Yes, I know that it loses its impact that way. Just suggesting how the Show may butcher the deeper meaning of the event for sake of "coolness."

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1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yes, I know that it loses its impact that way. Just suggesting how the Show may butcher the deeper meaning of the event for sake of "coolness."

I do worry about Arya and the show's treatment of her. 

I'm not sure they have the courage to have her face what I believe to be the consequences of her actions (i.e., the Faceless Men). I think they might lose their nerve. 

But by substituting her with Jaime, that screws up the ending for three characters -- would Benioff and Weiss really be that egregious? I shudder to think. 

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Just on Cersei. I still don't understand why she is ruling in the Show. So it clearly is not linked to her relation to the Baratheons, because they are all dead and she has no relation to them. So it must be because the Lannisters won the Throne through sheer power. But in that case, why is Jaime not King instead of her being Queen? Is he still a Kingsguard? If they are willing to ignore Cersei destroying the Great Sept and High Septon, after all, why should anyone care about a little detail like the eldest son of Casterly Rock being a Kingsguard?

Surely if Jaime just declared himself King he would be the rightful ruler, going by the weird logic of the Show. Cersei is kind of just sticking around like a bad rash, without any reason for her still being there.

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16 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Just on Cersei. I still don't understand why she is ruling in the Show. So it clearly is not linked to her relation to the Baratheons, because they are all dead and she has no relation to them. So it must be because the Lannisters won the Throne through sheer power. But in that case, why is Jaime not King instead of her being Queen? Is he still a Kingsguard? If they are willing to ignore Cersei destroying the Great Sept and High Septon, after all, why should anyone care about a little detail like the eldest son of Casterly Rock being a Kingsguard?

Surely if Jaime just declared himself King he would be the rightful ruler, going by the weird logic of the Show. Cersei is kind of just sticking around like a bad rash, without any reason for her still being there.

I think the answer is that because in the books, Jaime does not return to King's Landing until after the fight with the Others. However, since they decided to nuke what he is doing in the books (i.e., Catelyn, the Riverlands, etc.), they just decided to have him go back to Cersei for lack of anything else to do.

A lot of these logical inconsistencies stem from Benioff and Weiss shortening the series. If you read Daenerys' chapter in the House of the Undying again, you will notice that the Lannisters do not show up. Her opponents are spelled out:

  1. A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow raises a red sword in his hand (i.e., Stannis?)
  2. A cloth dragon sways on poles amidst a cheering crowd (i.e., Aegon). 
  3. A great stone beast takes wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadows (i.e., the Others). 

Well, since they got rid of Aegon, they had to substitute Cersei in, and since they got rid of Catelyn, they had to substitute Arya, plus have Jaime do something else for a season and a half. 

In the books, if I had to guess, Cersei probably never loses the the capital, even as Aegon steamrolls her armies outside of it. Aegon ends up fighting Daenerys and losing. Then Daenerys gets distracted by events up North and Jon convinces her to go there rather than invade King's Landing. 

Edited by Faint

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5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Just on Cersei. I still don't understand why she is ruling in the Show. So it clearly is not linked to her relation to the Baratheons, because they are all dead and she has no relation to them. So it must be because the Lannisters won the Throne through sheer power. But in that case, why is Jaime not King instead of her being Queen? Is he still a Kingsguard? If they are willing to ignore Cersei destroying the Great Sept and High Septon, after all, why should anyone care about a little detail like the eldest son of Casterly Rock being a Kingsguard?

Surely if Jaime just declared himself King he would be the rightful ruler, going by the weird logic of the Show. Cersei is kind of just sticking around like a bad rash, without any reason for her still being there.

The Baratheon Dynasty essentially died out without any remaining heirs (without going up the chain a few generations and then back down, perhaps). So Cersei was the closest relative to the last King as his mother. To say she has no relationship to them is not true (keeping to the "fiction" that Joffrey and Tommen were children of Robert and thus legitimate Kings) -- being wife to Robert and mother to Joffrey and Tommen is not no relation.

But more to the point, basically she ceased power and no one challenged her. She had the support of Qyburn and the Mountain and I don't think Jaime even wanted to be King. Given that there were no real clear successors to the throne, Cersei was able to fill the power vacuum and have herself crowned. The rest of Westeros basically went along (other than the areas that hate her and sided with Dany or Jon) because there really was no other alternative.

Jaime cannot declare himself King and expect to be recognized -- Cersei already had a coronation. His time to challenge her right was before that event. And as noted above, Cersei's probably is using the justification of being the closest living relative of the last King, as his mother (closer than uncle -- the "official" relationship of Jaime). Of course, he could try to cease power, but not clear that anyone would support him.

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28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

You realise you are contradicting parts of your theory as new developments invalidate it. How is Daenerys going to sleep and potentially produce children with a zombie with unhealed wounds all over his body?

That is only a potential plot development. Dany could have children with another man/husband.

But there is a solution for this - a miracle child. Whatever better way for a barren woman to get with child than by sleeping with a dead man? The people involved would be prophesied and magical heroes.

28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Where is Dany a better ruler than Jon? Since this is the Show thread, we are largely using clues from the Show to try and decipher the books. In the last episode, Dany's penchant for burning honorable enemies alive is already indicating that Jon is the better King, and will be the better ruler. Dany is the Alexander the Great. The Conqueror. Jon's arc is that of the bastard who understands the common man, and will therefore be a Great King.

Sorry, the Tarlys wanted to get burned. They did not want to bend the knee, they denounced her as foreign invader (ridiculous in light of the fact that the show Tarlys also fought for Aerys just two decades ago), they did not want to take the black, they simply wanted to die. This wasn't an execution. The way it was written and portrayed it was the assisted suicide of two madman.

I mean, Tarly has a wife and a daughter in the show, right? Didn't either of them think about them? That whole thing was ridiculous as hell.

Sure, it was supposed to make Dany appear somewhat ruthless but it didn't really. If she had insisted to burn them for their betrayal of Olenna despite of them pleading for mercy she would have been cruel and unforgiving. But not the way they portrayed.

But Dany is simply a better ruler than Jon because she is actually actually has a plan, an agenda, and even a political program. Jon has nothing. He doesn't want to be king and the only thing he wants to do as a king is to defeat the Others. That's not a plan for the future.

You can see how Dany and her agenda, the love and loyalty her people for gets to him when he talks to Missandei. Nobody loves him the way they love Dany. I mean, half the North or more is plotting behind his back the moment he left Winterfell as we saw in that episode. Those people are loyal to no one, and certainly not to this king they made and can just as easily unmake.

Jon himself makes that clear when he uses the ridiculous argument that he cannot bend the knee because his subjects would never accept that. A man king who is essentially the hostage or puppet of his subjects his no king at all. 

28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

There is no more evidence for Jon dying than there is for Dany dying. In fact, since you love irony so much, how about Dany spending the entire series obsessing with getting back her Throne, only to die soon after finally getting it. Not to mention realizing that there is a better claimant waiting in the wings?

That could also happen. And for the books I never said Dany is immortal. If you read my older lengthy discussions on the subject I always considered the possibility that Dany and/or Jon could die in the last battle.

But with the show cutting down the cast as much as they do, and them wrapping things up since last season already it is pretty obvious that there is nobody but Dany-Jon left who can end up rebuilding this kingdom. Nobody else is qualified or set up for this job.

And quite frankly, even in the books it is clear that this is, in part, a coming-of-age novel. Some of the children should come into their own and rule.

There is no reason for either Dany or Jon to die if it was just about the throne. They can marry each other. That's why she is a woman and he is a man. They don't have to fight this out. But with the Others as the ultimate threat one of the heroes will fight.

How likely is it that Jon is not going to get his final rematch with the Night King? Both on dragonback and as a mundane sword fight? And how likely is that he will just defeat the guy, without dying in the process? It is the basic lore of an action movie that the hero dies in the end if the challenge/evil guy is too strong. And the Dark Lord guy here is somebody that's going to go down easily. Dany is not going to kill him. She cannot fight him. Jon will, and he will die in the process.

28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Lastly, the irony in the Samwell scene in the last episode cannot have escaped you. When Gilly reveals that Jon was legimate, Samwell complains that the secret to saving humanity could be in some dusty tome and they would not know it. OBVIOUSLY the hidden meaning is that Gilly indeed did just reveal the secret to saving humanity, and it did indeed come from a dusty tome, and Sam didn't realize it.

That doesn't mean Jon is going to live. He sure is going to help save humanity. He is the one with the sword. But that doesn't mean he'll live. Why on earth should he?

28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

By the way, this is once again invalidating one of your earlier hard fought points that Dany is Azor Ahai, despite all of our efforts to persuade you that it is in fact Jon. It seems you are at least admitting that, but clinging to the hope that he will not become King, and will instead die in the final battle.

Dany still fulfills all the aspects of the prophecy we know about. But if the promised prince is also supposed to fight a battle and slay some evil Dark Lord guy that part is not going to be fulfilled by her. And I never claimed anything. But we don't know what the role of the promised prince will be in the books. Most likely not to kill some Dark Lord guy that doesn't exist in the books. 

28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

If you recall, it is not Azor Ahai who dies in the legend. It is his beloved wife. Again, not looking good for Dany, if they end up together.

Azor Ahai is dead and gone. As is the Last Hero, by the way. And we don't know what happened to either during the War for the Dawn. There is no claim that either stuck around and rebuild the world after the darkness retreated, is there? Why should we believe the hero defeating the true enemy is going to survive the last battle in a series as dark and gritty as this. It would be a clichéd fairy-tale ending.

I'm very aware that whenever I'm saying 'Dany is most likely the promised princess' or 'Dany fulfills most/all of the known aspects of the prophecy' that this also makes it very likely that she is going to die. But the same goes for Jon. And if he is the guy doing the hard work of the prophetic hero stuff he will be the one to die.

29 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

First, the only way to win the Game of Thrones is not to play the Game of Thrones. Dany has been playing the game in some for or other for a long time. Jon never will (but is most likely to win if anyone is going to win).

Sorry, that has nothing to do with anything. If Jon fights the Others he can die in that battle, and it is very likely that he will if he is responsible for their ultimate defeat. This has nothing to do with the game of thrones - a game Jon most definitely will play if declares himself king or enters into a marriage alliance with Daenerys Targaryen. He may play very badly but he will play.

And he already plays in the books, especially in ADwD. And he is going to get better in TWoW. After all, he won't be stabbed to death by his own men a second time. Hopefully.

29 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Second, as to Jon coming back as a "zombie" -- the show cut out what I suspect will be an important difference in the books -- Jon warging into Ghost before he dies. Due to that action, when Jon's body is resurrected, Jon can come back into his body from Ghost and not be a "zombie" but can be the "real" Jon (certainly changed by the experience but not having "lost a part of himself" as apparently happened with Baric and LS). The point of LS was to show that death cannot just be undone without a price (as a response to GRRM's frustration at the way that Gandolf was brought back to life in LotR). That point has already been made with LS -- Jon warging into Ghost allows his resurrection to be different.

It will be different, but he won't be off the hook. And it might be different and still worse if he comes back and is mentally more wolf than man, at least for a time.

But his body will be just as magically altered as Beric's and Catelyn's. Beric Dondarrion basically is Azor Ahai Reborn light. He has the burning sword, the magical (Targaryen) blood that can set swords a fire (something that Jon is likely going to do with Longclaw after his resurrection, getting his 'Lightbringer' in the process), and he was also killed and reborn in a rather literal sense. Jon will go through that, too.

But this is not going to make him a king or the hero who is going to live happily ever after everything is said and done. It sets him up for the opposite fate. He'll burn like a bright torch for the remainder of his short life and then he'll gutter out when his work is done. Because it will cost him everything to do what he is supposed to do. It will destroy him. He will be the literal fire that burns against the cold. When there is no cold there is no need for fire. So it can go out.

And Dany will the only joy he'll have for the brief time they are together. If they are very lucky they get their miracle child. If not, then they have just a brief time of joy. Nobody ever said the promised prince's line was there to stay.

And that fits well with the fate of Azor Ahai and the Last Hero, neither of which founded a great empire or a dynasty. They did their job and then they disappeared.

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I think readers would do well to re-read the end of Jon's eighth chapter from A Game of Thrones to get a sense of where his story is going. I'm not entirely convinced that Jon becomes the KITN in the books. I lean towards that being a show invention and oversimplification. Stannis will not lose to the Boltons in Martin's story, and the point of Jon's story has always been of resisting temptation. 

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5 hours ago, Newstar said:

Jon tener un momento con Drogon y no Rhaegal fue muy interesante. También parece una confirmación de la muerte de Dany si el espectáculo se adhiere a las reglas del libro de "un dragón, un jinete" (mientras el jinete vive), ¿no? Si Jon va a montar a Drogon, no puede hacerlo hasta que Dany muera (al menos por las reglas del libro, los escritores de televisión pueden hacer lo que quieran).

Pensé que la forma en que la interacción de Jon con Drogon en 7x05 y la interacción de Tyrion con Rhaegal en 6x02 fueron enmarcadas era muy similar. ¿Acaso eso y Jon y Drogon tener un momento significan que Tyrion obtendrá Rhaegal, o que Rhaegal va a morir antes de Rhaegal obtiene un jinete?

 

Muy improbable, en mi opinión, aunque es cierto que Tyrion es el único tipo con quien TV Sansa ha expresado sentimientos positivos fuera de su propia familia. En los contornos filtrados para 7x02, se indica que  Sansa "le gusta", "confía", "respeta" e incluso "ama" a Tyrion , y Tyrion muestra similarmente una falta de rencor hacia Sansa, por lo menos si / cuando se encuentran De nuevo no habrá ningún drama, pero es un gran salto desde allí a Sansa y Tyrion permanecer casado, en particular porque Sansa está tan preocupado con el poder y la independencia, que ella tendría que renunciar a volver a Tyrion, y Ya que los esbozos filtrados para los episodios de S7 aireados explican que Tyrion está enamorado de Dany.

... No es imposible, por supuesto, al menos hasta que Tyrion o Sansa muera, pero es improbable, en mi opinión.

 

Considerando que 7x05 explicó que Sansa no sólo se resiente de la regla de Jon (que ya se insinuó), sino que está en secreto la esperanza de que Jon muere para despejar el camino para ella para gobernar el Norte, creo que podemos anular esa posibilidad. Sin embargo, dado que en GOT / ASOIAF son los que nunca buscaron el poder, que sobreviven y finalmente se elevan más que los ambiciosos, me pregunto qué es Sansa que tiene hambre de poder según A los escritores de televisión, junto con las comparaciones con Cersei, significa para su final.

Si el triángulo Arya / Jon / Tyrion ha cambiado para los libros, a juzgar por S7, Arya fue cambiado por Dany, no por Sansa, ya que Jon se está enamorando de Dany y Tyrion ya se ha enamorado de ella.

Where are those filtered outlines for the episode 7x02?

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Your all wrong, Gendry will get the Iron throne, and Arya will be his lady. Everything comes back full circle, this time with the Baretheon getting the Stark girl. 

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