Dothraki, actually that good on the open field?

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

And we do know from the history of the fall of the Sarnori that they can mount sieges and bring cities down this way, too. They don't like that all that much, or grew to dislike it in the years since. But they can rediscover those skills easily enough. Dany's people won't be all Dothraki, after all.

In that sense, I think they shouldn't face all that much trouble taking this or that castle. They just would build siege engines and the like and take whatever castle or city they want in storm.

I don't think the Dothraki are like the Mongols, in that they're not that good at sieges. They do not have the mechanical acumen to build siege engines, though of course, if Dany brings them over, and she has Tyrion and other Westerosi with her, they could do that job. But the Sarnori cities fell for multiple reasons, one being that they were not fortresses that could be defended with inferior numbers. There was that one city that fell among the last, which lasted a long time because its people were more martial than the rest of the Sarnori.

In Westeros, you have medieval castles, designed to withstand sieges. I don't see the Dothraki taking Casterly Rock, or Winterfell, or even smaller castles. European medieval castles proved tough to crack for the Mongols as well.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well maybe you’re right, maybe you’re not.

But, I sure would like to see Mr. Dothraki “Your people can’t fight” guy say that shit to somebody like Brienne or Sandor.

Cause he might look awful funny trying to eat corn on the cobb with no fuckin’ teeth.

Well, there should be quite a few Dothraki that are as good or even better than these two. They are both no longer what they were when the series began, and especially Brienne actually lacks the killer instinct most Dothraki should have (speaking about the books, of course).

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:03 PM, Lord Varys said:

Well, there should be quite a few Dothraki that are as good or even better than these two. They are both no longer what they were when the series began, and especially Brienne actually lacks the killer instinct most Dothraki should have (speaking about the books, of course).

I doubt it. Particularly if were talking about them being in full armor.

And certainly not that chump talking to Tyrion.

[snow is the man]

1 hour ago, goomba said:

Jorah has beaten the Dothraki bloodrider, he's also beaten a summer islander warrior, along with a Braavosi water dancer(although with luck), and a Myraneese champion!

And these are just his recent accomplishments along with many others he had previously(siege of Pyke and beating Jaime Lannister).

Let's see uh, Jon has killed the Halfhand(who wanted to die), got beat up by the Fookin Legend of Gin Ally till he was saved by Crasters daughter, and has beaten a whitewalker(an accomplishment shared by Samwell LOL)

Now i do believe Jon will surpass Jorah eventually, but right now based off of resume alone I think it's safe to say Jorah is indeed the best.

But yea you're right i was a little biased there! Jorah beat a really good opponent there.

I didn't say jon was better then him and I didn't say jorah was bad. Though in season 6 he suddenly went from epic to having a random and drunk dothraki kick his a$$. (the dothraki city where he and darrio or whatever his name was fought those two dothraki in a back alley and jorah was almost strangeled to death.) That was way out of character for him since he had been whooping a$$ previously. Also the white walker sam killed was ignoring him and got stabbed in the back where as jon went head to head with one and killed alot of other soldiers as well. But the original point was that armor makes a massive difference and you were saying that the average westerosi soldier would get slaughtered by a dothraki based on what happened with sir jorah but he wasn't fighting a rank and file dothraki but one of khal drogo's bloodriders and khal drogo had the largest khalassar that we know of until dany united all of them. Drogo would not have picked a weak bloodrider.  Also one of the things game of thrones has a problem with is the way weapons are used. For example when dario and greyworm are searching that house looking for one of the harpies grey worm goes in with a six foot spear in a room that is tiny thus making his spear all but useless. Jon was using a longsword in a small area which isn't a good mix. Karl was using two daggers which allow better movement in close quarters like that. However I will admit that prior to season six jorah was a better swordsmen then jon.

[snow is the man]

15 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I don't think the Dothraki are like the Mongols, in that they're not that good at sieges. They do not have the mechanical acumen to build siege engines, though of course, if Dany brings them over, and she has Tyrion and other Westerosi with her, they could do that job. But the Sarnori cities fell for multiple reasons, one being that they were not fortresses that could be defended with inferior numbers. There was that one city that fell among the last, which lasted a long time because its people were more martial than the rest of the Sarnori.

In Westeros, you have medieval castles, designed to withstand sieges. I don't see the Dothraki taking Casterly Rock, or Winterfell, or even smaller castles. European medieval castles proved tough to crack for the Mongols as well.

I really ahte the mongol comparison because the mongols under genghis khan and his sons (which is what most people think of) used the best technology they could and when they captured cities and such took that knowledge and skills that their new soldiers would have. The mongols were also incredibly disciplined and could keep formations properly. Yes the dothraki don't run from what we see and are fearless but discipline makes a far bigger difference. In that battle before it started you saw that one lannister soldier shaking like a leaf but stayed in line.

[Rosetta Stone]

16 hours ago, Nocturne said:

Let me start off by saying that i loved the whole battle scene, but watching a few more times (more than i care to admit) i noticed that maybe Dothraki aren't all that? What i saw:

- They took the Lannister/Reach forces by surprise.

- The later had enough time to form a shield wall, but it was spread really thin.

- Bronn says when the Dothraki charge that they are going to overrun them.

The charge actually happens, but in the parts were Drogon didn't nuke the wall, the Westerosi held their own really well. They managed to to withstand the initial charge with relative ease, and that makes me wonder, had they had enough time to have their army organised, could they have easily won if not for the dragons?

There was a single moment, that made me think though that Dothraki would actually be all that on the open field: when they jumped on their horses and starting shooting their arrows. I could see them easily winning by doing that, but charging head on randomly (they didn't keep in formation while charging) seems like a really shitty idea, when their horses are not armoured like they have in the Vale.

Thoughts?

 

That may be western bias on your part.  The show made it clear, and this is coming from the competent battle leader Robert Baratheon, that only a fool would fight the Dothraki in battle.  The only logical move for the west?  Hide behind their walls and wait until the Dothraki get bored and move on.  The Dothraki are all that and more.  They would have won that battle, with or without Daenerys and Drogon.

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I don't think the Dothraki are like the Mongols, in that they're not that good at sieges. They do not have the mechanical acumen to build siege engines, though of course, if Dany brings them over, and she has Tyrion and other Westerosi with her, they could do that job. But the Sarnori cities fell for multiple reasons, one being that they were not fortresses that could be defended with inferior numbers. There was that one city that fell among the last, which lasted a long time because its people were more martial than the rest of the Sarnori.

They don't need Westerosi to teach them to build siege engines, they should know the basics of that already. And if not, then they could just as well learn it from Dany's sellsword people or the Volantene tiger soldiers.

There were quite a few Sarnori cities that were essentially starved out by the Dothraki. Remember the city where they ate their own dead? And the one where they killed their women and children before making their last stand? Those cities also would have had proper and high walls, being manned by capable men. This was a very old and developed civilization, after all.

The final downfall of the Sarnori also shows that the Dothraki can outmaneuver a superior enemy and are able to use their mobility to their advantage. If there is ever going to be a large pitched battle involving Dothraki in Westeros I'd not put much money on the Westerosi. Perhaps some if it was badly supplied, weary Dothraki force facing the cream of the knights of the West, the Reach, or the Dornish Marches. But that is not going to be all that likely.

Most of the houses/people that will eventually face Dany's Dothraki will have suffered a lot of losses, and are likely going to be not exactly in their best shape when they meet them.

They could make use of their superior knowledge of the terrain, but unless they are going to attack them in same large forest like the Kingswood or Rainwood I don't see the Dothraki losing. Especially if the dragonriders are going to serve as scouts.

8 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

In Westeros, you have medieval castles, designed to withstand sieges. I don't see the Dothraki taking Casterly Rock, or Winterfell, or even smaller castles. European medieval castles proved tough to crack for the Mongols as well.

A khalasar should be able to take a castle like Winterfell quickly enough. By storm, of course. It is going to cost them dearly but it should work. Casterly Rock is another matter. That thing is pretty much impregnable. 

On their own they would most likely not care about those castles. But they will come as part of Dany's army and thus they will have to care.

But we most likely won't see many sieges in winter, never mind whether there are going to be Dothraki or other people involved.

[snow is the man]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well maybe you’re right, maybe you’re not.

But, I sure would like to see Mr. Dothraki “Your people can’t fight” guy say that shit to somebody like Brienne or Sandor.

Cause he might look awful funny trying to eat corn on the cobb with no fuckin’ teeth.

sandor in full armor would destroy that guy.  I always thought that fight between him and brienne was to be taken with a grain of salt. The guy had an infection that slowed him down as we know and had just been taking a sh** and rushed because someone was coming. Come on that was what screwed him.

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I doubt it. Particularly if were talking about them being in full armor.

And certainly not that chump talking to Tyrion.

Brienne is lacking half her face right now. And Sandor seemed to be half a cripple. Armor certainly would give them an advantage in some sort of single combat thing. But it will most likely not come to that. The Dothraki may come in insane numbers. The people in total should be millions, with hundreds of thousands of capable warriors.

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:17 PM, snow is the man said:

sandor in full armor would destroy that guy.  I always thought that fight between him and brienne was to be taken with a grain of salt. The guy had an infection that slowed him down as we know and had just been taking a sh** and rushed because someone was coming. Come on that was what screwed him.

I tend to think he would have won if he hadn’t had the infection.

But, whatever your take on that fight, they are both great fighters.

And I’m pretty sure either one would destroy Mr. Dothraki trash talker.

I’m not sure what battle Mr. Dothraki trash talker was watchin’, but it sure in the hell wasn’t the one I was watchin’.

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:18 PM, Lord Varys said:

Brienne is lacking half her face right now. And Sandor seemed to be half a cripple. Armor certainly would give them an advantage in some sort of single combat thing. But it will most likely not come to that. The Dothraki may come in insane numbers. The people in total should be millions, with hundreds of thousands of capable warriors.

First I don’t accept your numbers here as being true or plausible.

Just to put this into perspective, at both Okinawa and Normandy, the initial landings of soldiers was about 200,000. And this was with modern nations and Navys.

I mean I think you just way underestimate the logistical challenge of getting hundred thousands of men and their horses and equipment across the sea, particularly with medieval naval technology.

Also, the point I was making was that Mr. Dothraki Trash Talker or any other Dothraki wouldn’t have much of chance defeating either Brienne or Sandor. You’re trying to change the argument by talking about the possible numbers the Dothraki could bring into the fight.

[snow is the man]

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Brienne is lacking half her face right now. And Sandor seemed to be half a cripple. Armor certainly would give them an advantage in some sort of single combat thing. But it will most likely not come to that. The Dothraki may come in insane numbers. The people in total should be millions, with hundreds of thousands of capable warriors.

uh brienne in the show has no parts of her face missing. And sandor isn't a cripple anymore or if he ever was.

[snow is the man]

4 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

First I don’t accept your numbers here as being true or plausible.

Just to put this into perspective, at both Okinawa and Normandy, the initial landings of soldiers was about 200,000. And this was with modern nations and Navys.

I mean I think you just way underestimate the logistical challenge of getting hundred thousands of men and their horses and equipment across the sea, particularly with medieval naval technology.

Also, the point I was making was that Mr. Dothraki Trash Talker or any other Dothraki wouldn’t have much of chance defeating either Brienne or Sandor. You’re trying to change the argument by talking about the possible numbers the Dothraki could bring into the fight.

I think that the dothraki in dany's army is supposed to be around a hundred thousand. It would be a logistical nightmare in modern times not to mention old navies like game of thrones but it could be done. But a million would be impossible even now.

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:36 PM, snow is the man said:

I think that the dothraki in dany's army is supposed to be around a hundred thousand. It would be a logistical nightmare in modern times not to mention old navies like game of thrones but it could be done. But a million would be impossible even now.

Yeah, it’s really easy to just hand wave all this logistical shit. But as they say, amateurs study tactics, while professionals study logistics.

For one, if the Dothraki are anything like their Mongolian counterparts, it would seem they would employ a different type of horse. From what I understand, European horses were grain fed. Mongolian horses could survive on a variety of grasses, which was a big logistical advantage for the Mongolians. If the Dothraki do employ a different kind of horse, I’d imagine each Dothraki would probably have to bring a minimum of two horses with him (I believe that most Mongol warriors kept something like 3 or 4).

So that’s not only 100,000 fighting men. That’s also 200,000 horses that have to be transported. Now you could say that the Dothraki could just use Westerosi mounts, but if they are like European mounts, then they have to be grain fed. And that’s more difficult to pull off.

Maybe 100,000. But, I’d consider that an upper limit.

I don’t expect GRRM to get extremely nitnoid about this stuff, but I think he’s a good enough historian to know how this stuff realistically worked.

[Corvinus85]

37 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They don't need Westerosi to teach them to build siege engines, they should know the basics of that already. And if not, then they could just as well learn it from Dany's sellsword people or the Volantene tiger soldiers.

There were quite a few Sarnori cities that were essentially starved out by the Dothraki. Remember the city where they ate their own dead? And the one where they killed their women and children before making their last stand? Those cities also would have had proper and high walls, being manned by capable men. This was a very old and developed civilization, after all.

The final downfall of the Sarnori also shows that the Dothraki can outmaneuver a superior enemy and are able to use their mobility to their advantage. If there is ever going to be a large pitched battle involving Dothraki in Westeros I'd not put much money on the Westerosi. Perhaps some if it was badly supplied, weary Dothraki force facing the cream of the knights of the West, the Reach, or the Dornish Marches. But that is not going to be all that likely.

Most of the houses/people that will eventually face Dany's Dothraki will have suffered a lot of losses, and are likely going to be not exactly in their best shape when they meet them.

They could make use of their superior knowledge of the terrain, but unless they are going to attack them in same large forest like the Kingswood or Rainwood I don't see the Dothraki losing. Especially if the dragonriders are going to serve as scouts.

A khalasar should be able to take a castle like Winterfell quickly enough. By storm, of course. It is going to cost them dearly but it should work. Casterly Rock is another matter. That thing is pretty much impregnable. 

On their own they would most likely not care about those castles. But they will come as part of Dany's army and thus they will have to care.

But we most likely won't see many sieges in winter, never mind whether there are going to be Dothraki or other people involved.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with you on the Dothraki. Sure, Dany could maybe beat their heads enough to change their ways, but Dothraki at present (I guess we're mainly talking books here) are not siege masters, nor have they ever been. And they are also highly arrogant, and disdainful of other cultures. When Jorah talks about the battle of Qohor it pretty much confirms it - after they defeated the Qohorik forces outside the walls, the way Jorah tells it, the Dothraki were going to smash down the gates and charge through; that tells me that at best the Dothraki were willing to cut down a tree and make a battering ram, or were simply going to burn the gate down; but in no way were they going to scale the walls.

The Sarnori cities were, I assume, sprawling settlements with multiple gates, like King's Landing, which would make it hard for defenders to hold the Dothraki at all these points. On the other hand, the Westerosi castles seldom have more than one viable entry point, and that is typically well defended. So no, I don't think a Dothraki khalasar could take a defended Winterfell by assault (starve them out, possibly). Book Winterfell is a concentric castle, with a wet moat between the walls and just one tight entry point. The unarmored and unshielded Dothraki would be made piecemeal even by average bowmen.

Now on the open field, yes, I agree with you - just like they did with the Sarnori, the Dothraki could easily outmaneuver a Westerosi army, and tear it apart.

[Lord Varys]

16 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

The Sarnori cities were, I assume, sprawling settlements with multiple gates, like King's Landing, which would make it hard for defenders to hold the Dothraki at all these points. On the other hand, the Westerosi castles seldom have more than one viable entry point, and that is typically well defended. So no, I don't think a Dothraki khalasar could take a defended Winterfell by assault (starve them out, possibly). Book Winterfell is a concentric castle, with a wet moat between the walls and just one tight entry point. The unarmored and unshielded Dothraki would be made piecemeal even by average bowmen.

Well, they did starve out Mardosh the Unconquerable in a succession of sieges that took six years in total. They can do that kind of thing. It just seems they don't do it anymore since they seem to be more or less content with the Grasslands they call the Dothraki Sea now. If they wanted they sure as hell could take the lands controlled by the Qohorik, Norvoshi, and Pentoshi - there are no walls or proper defenses around those. Even if they could - for some reason - not take their cities they could still routinely and repeatedly raid their lands, breaking them in that fashion. But they don't. Perhaps because they are more or less content with the lands they control now. Not to mention that they no longer have a single leader as they did for the better part of the Century of Blood.

Winterfell is a large castle with multiple gates, too. KL has only seven gates and a pretty high wall, too. I'm not saying it would be easy. And they sure as hell would have to try to scale the walls and all, but they should be able to learn this kind of thing. It is not that hard for people who are professional warriors and who want something.

Now, would they want to take some castles in a foreign land under normal circumstances? Probably not. But if Dany does bring them to Westeros they will do stuff there. And that could include taking at least a few crucial castles by storm. And there we would most likely talk about a garrison of a few hundred men at best against thousands of Dothraki. If they learn the essential from some sellswords/Westerosi people they should be able to pull that off.

But in general I agree - that would likely a rather costly won victory, and thus something they are not likely going to do if they can prevent it. But it is also not very likely that they will sit around doing nothing if there is some castle they have to take.

The Qohor thing seems to a rather stupid episode on the part of Khal Temmo. The guy simply was a moron. He made it an honor thing that they have to ride those eunuchs down. That doesn't mean all Dothraki have to be like this guy (just as not all Westerosi lords have the strategic acumen of, say, Mace Tyrell). They can adapt. They can unite. And they could bring down a very advanced and refined civilization. The Sarnori were very good fighters, too, with better weapons and equipment than the Dothraki, most likely.

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

First I don’t accept your numbers here as being true or plausible.

Just to put this into perspective, at both Okinawa and Normandy, the initial landings of soldiers was about 200,000. And this was with modern nations and Navys.

I mean I think you just way underestimate the logistical challenge of getting hundred thousands of men and their horses and equipment across the sea, particularly with medieval naval technology.

I guess it depends on the question what George wants to happen. He had Renly have raise an insanely huge army in no time, too, and had the 20,000 horse Stannis captured at Storm's End quietly disappear and replace with people that could actually feed his army. Those things are not always as a consistent as they have to be.

Daenerys has a chance to assemble an insanely huge armada if she has all the Ghiscari ships (not just those in Slaver's Bay but also those of the Ghiscari from New Ghis and the other cities joining the Yunkish allies), the Qartheen fleet, the Iron Fleet, the Volantene fleet (300-500 war galleys), and subsequently all the other ships at Volantis, Myr, Tyrosh, Lys, and Pentos if we assume she takes all or at least some of those cities during her march west. That would be enough ships to move a huge chunk of the Dothraki people across the Narrow Sea. It is not that wide a sea and if she has secured a landing site the same ships could go back and forth for weeks and months without end.

I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm just saying - if Dany unites all the Dothraki under her power she will have millions of people and hundreds of thousands of able-bodied men to fight for her. The numbers are based on the fact that Drogo's khalasar - just one of a couple of dozens - had 40,000 Dothraki screamers and about 100,000 people in total.

In total there should be a 2-3 million Dothraki around, I guess.

And let's say she suffer a crushing defeat in the first couple of battles. If she has a foothold in Westeros she can always bring in new Dothraki unless they are going to cut ties with her - which is unlikely if she ends up becoming their prophesied goddess-empress.

This is not going to be a campaign that has to end because she suddenly no longer has any men left. Far to the contrary, actually...

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/9/2017 at 11:58 PM, Lord Varys said:

snip

How many men did Renly have in the field again? Remind me. I forgot.

What you're talking about is bring over hundreds of thousands of men and their horses and then supporting them in the field. I mean just putting enough food on those ships to feed the horses while enroute is a huge task.(and particularly when you start talking about millions.)

Want to get convince me this is feasible? What is the cargo capacity of an average ship during the Middle Ages? How much food per man per day is required. How much for a horse. How much fresh water for both? And then whip out an excel spreadsheet and do some calculations.

[Lord Varys]

5 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

How many men did Renly have in the field again? Remind me. I forgot.

What you're talking about is bring over hundreds of thousands of men and their horses and then supporting them in the field. I mean just putting enough food on those ships to feed the horses while enroute is a huge task.(and particularly when you start talking about millions.)

Want to get convince me this is feasible? What is the cargo capacity of an average ship during the Middle Ages? How much food per man per day is required. How much for a horse. How much fresh water for both? And then whip out an excel spreadsheet and do some calculations.

Renly supposedly had nearly 100,000 men in total. Perhaps it was only 80,000. Nobody ever counted. You can try to reduce the total number by arguing that there would have been a lot spectators and camp followers and the like there since one of the criteria to count them was counting camp fires in the night but it is still a lot of people.

I never said Dany would bring across all those millions of Dothraki. I just said she could if she wanted to do it. It would be stupid to do so considering that she would indeed have to feed them. Although I think the food problem can be resolved by stripping vast regions of Essos bare, especially those regions controlled by the Free Cities (the Flatlands, for example, and a lot of the fertile regions along the Rhoyne and the lands controlled by Volantis).

I expect she will take perhaps a tenth of all the Dothraki, and most of those people would be fighters. She would have little reason to bring across the entire people across the sea. But that could still be hundreds of thousands of people if we combine in it with the Ironborn (several thousands), the combined sellswords (Second Sons, Windblown, Stormcrows - several thousands), her freedmen companies and reformed Ghiscari (unclear), the entire Volantene slave army (unclear, but presumably a huge number, likely tens of thousands). They are coming in huge war galleys numbering in the hundreds (300-500) and Victarion is very afraid of them.

I doubt the triarchs took all the tiger soldiers with them to Slaver's Bay and left Volantis defenseless in their absence, so another contingent is going to join them when they arrive in Volantis. Also note how easily the triarchs transported the entire Golden Company including their horses and elephants across the Narrow Sea - 10,000 fighting men. They didn't even use their own ships for that, they gave that task to the Volantene traders and other merchants.

If they can do that so easily without actually using their own war galleys for such an enterprise Dany certainly could move 100,000 or 200,000 people across the Narrow Sea.

In George's mind, that is. If that's realistic if you actually think through the logistics I don't know. Probably not. But then, the author doesn't really care about that all that much.

[OldGimletEye]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:29 AM, Lord Varys said:

Renly supposedly had nearly 100,000 men in total. Perhaps it was only 80,000. Nobody ever counted. You can try to reduce the total number by arguing that there would have been a lot spectators and camp followers and the like there since one of the criteria to count them was counting camp fires in the night but it is still a lot of people.

I never said Dany would bring across all those millions of Dothraki. I just said she could if she wanted to do it. It would be stupid to do so considering that she would indeed have to feed them. Although I think the food problem can be resolved by stripping vast regions of Essos bare, especially those regions controlled by the Free Cities (the Flatlands, for example, and a lot of the fertile regions along the Rhoyne and the lands controlled by Volantis).

I expect she will take perhaps a tenth of all the Dothraki, and most of those people would be fighters. She would have little reason to bring across the entire people across the sea. But that could still be hundreds of thousands of people if we combine in it with the Ironborn (several thousands), the combined sellswords (Second Sons, Windblown, Stormcrows - several thousands), her freedmen companies and reformed Ghiscari (unclear), the entire Volantene slave army (unclear, but presumably a huge number, likely tens of thousands). They are coming in huge war galleys numbering in the hundreds (300-500) and Victarion is very afraid of them.

I doubt the triarchs took all the tiger soldiers with them to Slaver's Bay and left Volantis defenseless in their absence, so another contingent is going to join them when they arrive in Volantis. Also note how easily the triarchs transported the entire Golden Company including their horses and elephants across the Narrow Sea - 10,000 fighting men. They didn't even use their own ships for that, they gave that task to the Volantene traders and other merchants.

If they can do that so easily without actually using their own war galleys for such an enterprise Dany certainly could move 100,000 or 200,000 people across the Narrow Sea.

In George's mind, that is. If that's realistic if you actually think through the logistics I don't know. Probably not. But then, the author doesn't really care about that all that much.

I'd agree that 100,000 men is unusually large for a Medieval Army. But we know, that the Reach is very large and rich. So, it's not completely ridiculous, but somewhat though.

But, there is still a big difference between raising 100,000 men on land in a wealthy and prosperous area and transporting that many men and all their horses across the sea.

And really I have no idea how you'd conclude that from transporting 10,000 men, "Dany certainly could move 100,000 to 200,000 across the Narrow sea". Were talking several magnitudes greater here. Not in just men, but horses as well. And as I pointed out, realistically each Dothraki would probably need at least two, unless they were willing to use Westerosi horses (which I assume are like their European counterparts).

And while I agree that Renly's force seems unusually large, most of the time it seems to me that the various armies in Westeros are about the size you'd expect of medieval forces.

[goomba]

2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

I didn't say jon was better then him and I didn't say jorah was bad. Though in season 6 he suddenly went from epic to having a random and drunk dothraki kick his a$$. (the dothraki city where he and darrio or whatever his name was fought those two dothraki in a back alley and jorah was almost strangeled to death.) That was way out of character for him since he had been whooping a$$ previously. Also the white walker sam killed was ignoring him and got stabbed in the back where as jon went head to head with one and killed alot of other soldiers as well. But the original point was that armor makes a massive difference and you were saying that the average westerosi soldier would get slaughtered by a dothraki based on what happened with sir jorah but he wasn't fighting a rank and file dothraki but one of khal drogo's bloodriders and khal drogo had the largest khalassar that we know of until dany united all of them. Drogo would not have picked a weak bloodrider.  Also one of the things game of thrones has a problem with is the way weapons are used. For example when dario and greyworm are searching that house looking for one of the harpies grey worm goes in with a six foot spear in a room that is tiny thus making his spear all but useless. Jon was using a longsword in a small area which isn't a good mix. Karl was using two daggers which allow better movement in close quarters like that. However I will admit that prior to season six jorah was a better swordsmen then jon.

Armor might make a difference between two opponents who maybe of similar skill level i.e Jorah and a Dothraki bloodrider

But yea i don't think it would make much of a difference between a regular Westerosi soldier who probably spent most of his life not fighting, against a Dothraki foot soldier who spent most of his life fighting, being born and bred to kill. To beat them, armor would be nice but also massive skill level which Jorah has both of, which is what i was really trying to get at.

The battle we just saw was kind of a testament to this, as it seemed each dead Dothraki probably took atleast 2 or 3 Lannister men with him before dieing.