That polygamy thing (all over again)

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Thats all true but Aegon is not nearly as pious as Baelor. He understands the faith and will recognize their importance. He also knows his history and knows how dangerous an armed faith militant can be for the crown. Perhaps they forge an alliance but I’m more then certain all his advisors will council him to disarm the faith as quick as possible.

The Faith was only dangerous for the Targaryens before the Doctrine of Excpeptionalism. After that established the Faith itself preaches Targaryens are special.

A Faith Militant going with the Doctrine of Exceptionalism would be a great asset for House Targaryen, especially Aegon.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Someone had to write a registry

That wouldn't be a prerequisite, considering written records can be forged just as living witnesses can lie/not be believed.

But there may have been a maester with them at some point. Could have helped with the birth of the child, that sort of thing. And we don't know what happened to Cressen's predecessor as maester of Dragonstone.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

my bad. Still she has to recognize Rhaegar's heirs.

How she is going to react Aegon might help us to guess how she is going to deal with the Jon story once she hears that ... or rather: how she decides to see Aegon when they get to Westeros. If she never buys the tale then she is not likely to ever buy the Jon Snow story - especially since Aegon's story is light years better and more believable than Jon Snow's story.

If she first buys the Aegon story and then realizes she was deceived she is not going to take any Jon Snow seriously at all ... and neither will all the people who helped her cast down Aegon or came to the conclusion that he is a fraud.

The only way I can see Dany seriously consider the Jon Snow story is if she was already in love with him when she hears about that.

If she arrived in Westeros already hearing this kind of cock-and-bull story about a Targaryen pretender posing as a Stark bastard she would never be receptive to this idea at all ... not even after she met Jon Snow in person.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

The issue here is more than legal. I don't think that Jon will ever try to claim the throne. I don't think either that Jon's parentage will be widely known or people will flock to his banner. I think the issue will be more personal. For Dany, he will represent an hypothetical  legal threat and a clash with her perceptions of Rhaegar. For Jon a confrontation with his identity.

Hm, I'm not so sure about there being a clash with her view of Rhaegar. She thinks Rhaegar loved Lyanna, and might already know or soon learn (from Barristan) that Lya and Rhaegar were married.

Jon is never going to be a 'legal threat' to Daenerys. He doesn't look like a Targaryen, he has no ties with Targaryen loyalists in Westeros (and is not likely to ever make such ties independently of other Targaryens), etc.

If Jon had any chance to be another Aegon - one with even more support than Aegon himself - then he could become a threat. But even then Daenerys still has vast armies of her own, loyal to her and not some other pretender they never even met.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Aegon VI is not the Conqueror. We know that.

Sure, but he may really emulate him. And he has chances for great success in the beginning.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Thanks for the quote. As I said. It's really an issue with the complementary works re the main series. Isn't the reason why you are asking?

Oh, the reason for the questions was to actually get some sort of impression what people who chose to reply actually thought about the issue, especially how the concept is going to be used in future books ... be it in the future plots or the background information of the past.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

primogeniture is already complicated with a single wife. What if the older brother is an idiot and the second a capable guy? This is the argument of Tarly re:Sam. Now imagine this with two o more wife. And in the end it doesn't matter for whoever lustful and powerful Lord. He can have all the women he wishes without these complications.

Well, there are enough men who would like to show up their wealth and power by feeding and clothing and spoiling not just one wife but a dozen or more. That is why powerful men in polygamous societies usually have the most wives.

And to be sure - succession struggles are somewhat common, but they don't take all the time nor do people want to change the system because this happens once in a while.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

I don't think so. Otherwise more characters should be aware of that which doesn't seem to be the case. I know GRRM can dance around big things to be revealed later but I don't this is the case.

He dances around a lot of things with this Lyanna/Rhaegar thing - and if there was no public wedding or a publicly revealed wedding there would be little to no reason for this. Jon Snow's true parentage could be obscured by dropping red herrings about his unknown mother and by concealing the fact that Lya may have been pregnant.

I'm not really sure why giving away that they had a consensual relationship would necessarily give away the Jon Snow thing. And Lya and Rhaegar all by themselves are pretty much irrelevant for the future plot.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Probably, Rhaegar wanted to reveal that weeding after a time he can manage whatever political gymnastic he wished to perform. He never got a chance.

Considering how secret marriages are problematic marriages in their own right (e.g. the two marriages of Jaehaerys and Alysanne) I doubt that Rhaegar could secretly marry Lya and then impregnate her before she is publicly revealed to be his wife and still succeed of her not giving birth to a child that would be seen as a bastard by some, possibly even many people.

2 hours ago, corbon said:

I don't think so.

Think about if Rhaegar had won at the Trident and ended the rebellion, as was surely his aim and expectation (see his chat with Jaime as he was leaving).
He returns home. He brings out Lyanna and his child. He declares she is his wife, and this is his son, and he treats them as such. He has witnesses of high rank and impeccable character (Dayne and Whent) to the marriage.

There will be none who can credibly argue against it.
Any who try will be calling the Crown Prince (possibly regent or king by then), Ser Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard, and Ser Oswell Whent of the Kingsguard liars, Lyanna Stark a liar and whore and the baby a bastard. 
Who exactly is going to do that And what for? Rhaegar's just defeated the rebels and ended the rebellion. Robert has lost, Ned Stark (or Benjen) isn't going to call Lyanna a whore and liar and destroy her status and their new access to power and the Martell's aren't going to go against the rest of the 7 kingdoms alone, and still have Aegon as Rhaegar's heir anyway.

All the Realm at that point, because the defeat of the rebels would have been as preliminary as the victory of the rebels - unless you assume Rhaegar would have dealt with the Baratheons, Starks, Tullys, and Arryns in the same merciful manner the rebels dealt with Rhaegar's family (complicated by the fact that Stannis, Renly, Benjen, and Edmure would have been not in Rhaegar's power, nor is there a guarantee that Rhaegar could even have captured all rebel leaders if he had won) - in a similar manner as the Baratheon victory was preliminary.

If the Tyrells and Hightowers and Dornishmen and the not yet completely spent rebels in the field had decided they don't want a polygamist shithead as king, they would have cast him down in no time.

This is like saying Rhaenyra's death ended the Dance of the Dragons ... no, Aegon II's death did, a murder caused by the fact that Aegon II thought he could get away with shit after his restoration.

And this idea that people do give jack shit what the Kingsguard say can be seen by the fact that all the Kingsguard witnessed the first wedding of Jaehaerys-Alysanne yet this didn't cause the king to think he didn't have to have a second wedding.

It is not just that people don't have to believe something like that if they don't want to - they can also cast down such a 'king' very easily.

[Hugorfonics]

On 6/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lord Varys said:

1. Do you think we are going to see any Targaryen polygamy marriages in the future, most notably involving Prince Aegon or Daenerys or Jon Snow (presumably after his true parentage is revealed to his own satisfaction)? Or do you think that's just a thing of the past, some ploy to make Jon Snow 'the legitimate princely son' of Lyanna and Rhaegar?

Maybe Dany. Dragon has 3 heads and all that. 

I do think theres a good chance that Jons parents married in secret

On 6/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lord Varys said:

2. If you think so, how do you think such ideas will shape the plot? Do you see any candidates for such polygamous marriages?

Daario maybe. Maybe even Jorah or Jon.

I think its a fun twist on a polygamist marriage, Dany the queen and her array of husbands.

On 6/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lord Varys said:

3. Do you believe historically Targaryen polygamy (practiced in Westeros only by Aegon I and Maegor the Cruel) actually had the same or a similar standing with the people as the traditional Targaryen incest, i.e. do you think if Rhaegar-Lyanna had married publicly or their marriage had been revealed to the public during their lifetimes such a marriage would have been accepted or rejected on principle?

It doesnt really matter. As long as Rhaegar has the backing of the throne, his wife is Lyanna. 

On 6/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lord Varys said:

4. And for the future: How do you think a King Aegon VI taking two or more wives after/at his coronation would be seen by the people of Westeros? Would this be seen, say, as a positive image, a recreation of Aegon the Conqueror and his sister-wives and thus a symbol of hope and future prosperity, or would you think the opposite is more likely? Do you even think the new High Septon with a rearmed Faith would accept a king with more than one wife at the same time? If so, why do you think that?

I don't think that will happen. But no, I dont think anyone would care that much

On 6/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lord Varys said:

5. The same for Daenerys: How do you think she would be greeted/seen in Westeros if she came as a queen with multiple spouses, mimicking Aegon the Conqueror in this regard, who also came to Westeros with two wives who were fellow dragonriders?

Lol not well. They already call her a whore and most these sunset lords are smug as sin... But she'll also have 3 dragons, right? So... What can they do?

Theyll have countless reasons to see Dany as their enemy, but I dont think Danys two wedding rings will be the most prevalent one

On 6/29/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lord Varys said:

6. Finally - do you think for the Westerosi only Targaryen pretenders could or would entertain polygamy or could you also see Euron Greyjoy, Stannis Baratheon and any other pretenders to the Iron Throne who might pop up in the future to entertain such ideas?

Tyrion has two wives. Sansa is trying to marry a second husband so, somethings happening

As for Stannis and Euron I doubt it, maybe a salt wife but still, probably not

[FictionIsntReal]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:02 AM, rotting sea cow said:

Someone had to record the whole damn thing if they ever wanted to have some sort of credibility.

As you noted, nobody seems to be aware of any such wedding. That's not the case when Sansa marries Tyrion: the Starks hear about it and write up Robb's will to exclude her. If Rhaegar was waiting for some reason, why not have a very public wedding at whatever point he feels he can reveal the truth? And what maester would he use? They are normally sworn to particular castles, but he was far from Dragonstone. Finally, it's not normally the job of maester to attest to the fact that a wedding happened. Septons officiate weddings.

On 7/2/2020 at 10:51 AM, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Why would the faith want to help Aegon? They can have total control of the crown without him if they were to depose of Lannister/Baratheon power.

Who would wear the crown? They don't yet have any asset the rest of the realm would recognize as king.

On 7/2/2020 at 6:40 PM, Lord Varys said:

A Faith Militant going with the Doctrine of Exceptionalism would be a great asset for House Targaryen, especially Aegon.

I'm less confident the High Sparrow would want to push that. He's just overturned Jaeharys' disbanding of the Faith Militant and used that to lock up two queens. Aegon is useful as a political alternative, but HS doesn't need him placed above any laws. And since Aegon has no known siblings (or plans to ride a dragon, which seems to be the point of the inbred bloodline), he doesn't need an incestuous marriage himself.

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and might already know or soon learn (from Barristan) that Lya and Rhaegar were married

Dany wasn't even born when Rhaegar died, and the people around KL didn't seem to know what Rhaegar was up to. Barristan was not a close friend of Rhaegar like Arthur and didn't take part in any of his actions regarding Lyanna. Nobody has said anything about such a marriage, and it seems far more likely to me that people don't know about it (if it did happen) than that GRRM will have Barristan mention it all these years later as some surprise.

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And to be sure - succession struggles are somewhat common, but they don't take all the time nor do people want to change the system because this happens once in a while.

Among the Ottomans there was essentially a law of fratricide: killing all your brothers is practically a pre-requisite of taking the throne.

On 7/2/2020 at 7:13 PM, Hugorfonics said:

Tyrion has two wives

His first marriage was annulled, with a drunk septon and no other witnesses.

[Lord Varys]

5 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

As you noted, nobody seems to be aware of any such wedding. That's not the case when Sansa marries Tyrion: the Starks hear about it and write up Robb's will to exclude her. If Rhaegar was waiting for some reason, why not have a very public wedding at whatever point he feels he can reveal the truth? And what maester would he use? They are normally sworn to particular castles, but he was far from Dragonstone. Finally, it's not normally the job of maester to attest to the fact that a wedding happened. Septons officiate weddings.

That is why I think it would be a given that Rhaegar would have to have another, a second wedding with Lyanna if there had been a secret wedding before - sort of like Jaehaerys and Alysanne did.

5 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

I'm less confident the High Sparrow would want to push that. He's just overturned Jaeharys' disbanding of the Faith Militant and used that to lock up two queens. Aegon is useful as a political alternative, but HS doesn't need him placed above any laws. And since Aegon has no known siblings (or plans to ride a dragon, which seems to be the point of the inbred bloodline), he doesn't need an incestuous marriage himself.

Maegor disbanded the Faith Militant, not Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys merely took away the right of the Faith to conduct trials.

The Doctrine of Exceptionalism isn't a legal matter as a such - it is a religious doctrine that is now an official part. It is part of the teachings the sparrows and the High Septon himself grew up with and taught to the people (at least while the Targaryens were still around). I don't see how they could break with something that's now pretty much part of the Faith's identity.

Of course, Aegon wouldn't have the same power over the Faith as the dragonriding Targaryen kings - or even those who dealt with an unarmed Faith. But as long as the Faith and the Iron Throne have the same enemies, Aegon can use the Faith Militant as his own army.

5 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Dany wasn't even born when Rhaegar died, and the people around KL didn't seem to know what Rhaegar was up to. Barristan was not a close friend of Rhaegar like Arthur and didn't take part in any of his actions regarding Lyanna. Nobody has said anything about such a marriage, and it seems far more likely to me that people don't know about it (if it did happen) than that GRRM will have Barristan mention it all these years later as some surprise.

Barristan is a Kingsguard and could have been right there when Rhaegar and his father spoke about the Lyanna issue after Rhaegar's return to court. Jaime could also know about the marriage, by the way. Those characters have, so far, never wasted a thought on Lyanna Stark, so we just don't know what they know.

And if it was a public wedding - as I think it would have been if it happened - then many more POVs and other characters know but just didn't bother to think or talk about so far. And they don't have to, it is a thing of the past that went nowhere, anyway. Nobody seems to think Lya and Rhaegar had any children.

5 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Among the Ottomans there was essentially a law of fratricide: killing all your brothers is practically a pre-requisite of taking the throne.

Sure, but they - unlike Westeros - didn't have a succession based on primogeniture.

That mostly works in Westeros. It only doesn't when the eldest son isn't very promising, you have especially ambitious younger sons, the eldest son predeceases the father (in that case especially when the king rules too long and the succession goes down to grandsons and great-grandsons), and so on.

5 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

His first marriage was annulled, with a drunk septon and no other witnesses.

We actually don't know if it was formally annulled. Might be ... or not. But even if it wasn't, nobody is ever going to view Tysha's Lanna as 'rightful heir to Casterly Rock' or any such crap.

This is more showing the power imbalance between the nobility and the smallfolk than legal issues - and thus also casts some light on how Aegon V could also have done away with Jenny if he had wanted to. Jenny could have gone where Tysha went. That she didn't shows how nice a man Egg actually was.

[Bloodraven’s Spider]

@Lord Varys i agree both ruling factions needed each other in some respect to maintain a level of power and influence.

However the Faith accepted those norms because if they didn’t they would be wiped out, extinct. The Jaehaerys understood they could be better of as allies, hence the doctrine. That doesn’t mean bad blood still doesn’t exist. The Targaryens had dragons so they couldn’t attack and even after the last dragon vanished they had an immense amount of power. 

There’s no way the Faith will accept Aegon or any Targaryen, i dont see it happening. 

As Varys says:

In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. ‘Do it,’ says the king, ‘for I am your lawful ruler.’ ‘Do it,’ says the priest, ‘for I command you in the name of the gods.’ ‘Do it,’ says the rich man, ‘and all this gold shall be yours.’ So tell me – who lives and who dies?

The gods are in a power struggle with the king...Targaryens and the faith do not mix

 

@FictionIsntRealthe high sparrow himself. He has fanatics who will do his bidding 

[Lord Varys]

21 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

@Lord Varys i agree both ruling factions needed each other in some respect to maintain a level of power and influence.

However the Faith accepted those norms because if they didn’t they would be wiped out, extinct. The Jaehaerys understood they could be better of as allies, hence the doctrine. That doesn’t mean bad blood still doesn’t exist. The Targaryens had dragons so they couldn’t attack and even after the last dragon vanished they had an immense amount of power. 

There’s no way the Faith will accept Aegon or any Targaryen, i dont see it happening. 

As Varys says:

In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. ‘Do it,’ says the king, ‘for I am your lawful ruler.’ ‘Do it,’ says the priest, ‘for I command you in the name of the gods.’ ‘Do it,’ says the rich man, ‘and all this gold shall be yours.’ So tell me – who lives and who dies?

The gods are in a power struggle with the king...Targaryens and the faith do not mix

@FictionIsntRealthe high sparrow himself. He has fanatics who will do his bidding 

But what we learned in FaB is that Jaehaerys I actually added a doctrine to the Faith's own teachings which then became a dogma of the Faith - this teaching and dogma was then in the later decades and centuries taught to the new generations of the Faith.

Yes, the Faith still doesn't approve of incest, but they no longer have any issues with the Targaryens doing it. Not that Aegon would.

I'm not sure what would happen if Aegon were to take two or more wives after his coronation - I assume this could create a big rift between Faith and Iron Throne. But before he does that - or if he doesn't do it at all - there shouldn't be any issue as long as Aegon accepts the arming of the Faith. And he should do that if the Faith Militant actually help him seize his throne. If they were to oppose it things would be different, but I can't see that happening.

[Hugorfonics]

15 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

His first marriage was annulled, with a drunk septon and no other witnesses.

They ate the witness. And a drunk septon cant annul a marriage, only a drunk high septon can

[FictionIsntReal]

19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Maegor disbanded the Faith Militant, not Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys merely took away the right of the Faith to conduct trials.

They remained in rebellion against Maegor. When Jaehaerys assured them the Faith had no need of weapons because it had the protection of the Iron Throne, militants actually listened.

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The Doctrine of Exceptionalism isn't a legal matter as a such - it is a religious doctrine that is now an official part. It is part of the teachings the sparrows and the High Septon himself grew up with and taught to the people (at least while the Targaryens were still around). I don't see how they could break with something that's now pretty much part of the Faith's identity.

We don't actually know what he'd been teaching in the past, the era of the Seven Speakers was long before. The Targaryens were overthrown, and we've heard their downfall attributed to their practice of incest. The dragons that justified their customs died long ago. The High Sparrow has overturned a centuries old arrangement between the Faith and the Iron Throne, and if he were to go further and entirely renounce the legitimacy of a king he'd somewhat reluctantly endorsed, the most likely ground to do so would be accepting the accusation of incest which officially was the reason for his delay. It would be quite muddled to remove a dynasty due to the abomination of incest only to replace them with a new one whose incest is legitimized. The chance result of there not being any sisters for Rhaegar to marry means that Aegon serves as a non-incestuous rival to Tommen.

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Barristan is a Kingsguard and could have been right there when Rhaegar and his father spoke about the Lyanna issue after Rhaegar's return to court.

We don't hear about Rhaegar speaking to his father about "the Lyanna issue". Even her whereabouts seem to have been unknown after basically all the loyalists bent the knee to Robert.

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We actually don't know if it was formally annulled. Might be ... or not.

This sounded like annulment to me:

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my father had the marriage undone. It was as if we had never been wed, the septons said

 

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This is more showing the power imbalance between the nobility and the smallfolk than legal issues

Tyrion himself highlights the non-standard nature of his marriage. I would not be so quick to dismiss that. Tyrion was himself of noble birth and thus the septons would be overriding a noble's marriage, but in this case it's in keeping with the patriarchal norm that a father gets to decide for his children. In a counterfactual where Tysha was some minor noble (like Littlefinger) the question would be whether her family could object to Tywin overturning the marriage which made acceptable Tyrion's deflowering of their daughter. But it seems that, like with Tyrion, her family hadn't even been aware of her marriage and would have had less investment in it in a counterfactual where they were similarly unaware nobles.

5 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

the high sparrow himself. He has fanatics who will do his bidding

The HS' whole schtick is humility. He's not going to sit on the throne himself. The role he's taken on for himself is representative of the people toward the nobility, rebuking them for their failures to protect the Faith and indulgence in sin, and extracting concessions for the Faith's support. Actually taking over would be a rather different role. As a septon, he has sworn off marriage and children, so he can't start his own dynasty either.

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

They ate the witness.

If Rhaegar, Symond and/or Jared Frey witnessed any wedding and were eaten before they could give testimony, that wedding could also be annulled. In the case of pigs however, unless they are unusually talented pigs, they could not give testimony even if they hadn't been eaten.

[Hugorfonics]

42 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

If Rhaegar, Symond and/or Jared Frey witnessed any wedding and were eaten before they could give testimony, that wedding could also be annulled. 

By a high septon, sure.

What wedding is this, Edmures? That could be maybe declared invalid. Not really an annulment though

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"The monster has tied us a thorny knot," the old knight told Maester Luwin. "Like it or no, Lady Hornwood was his wife. He made her say the vows before both septon and heart tree, and bedded her that very night before witnesses. She signed a will naming him as heir and fixed her seal to it."

"Vows made at sword point are not valid," the maester argued.

"Roose Bolton may not agree.

And maybe not actually because Edmure wasnt technically held at swordpoint

46 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

In the case of pigs however, unless they are unusually talented pigs, they could not give testimony even if they hadn't been eaten.

Like Pretty? She has talent (had? )

Animals make decent witnesses in Westeros. Maybe its because of all those damn skinchangers 

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"Any knight can make a knight, it is true, though it is more customary to stand a vigil and be anointed by a septon before taking your vows. Were there any witnesses to your dubbing?"

"Only a robin, up in a thorn tree. I heard it as the old man was saying the words. He charged me to be a good knight and true, to obey the seven gods, defend the weak and innocent, serve my lord faithfully and defend the realm with all my might, and I swore that I would."

"No doubt."

 

[Lord Varys]

37 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

They remained in rebellion against Maegor. When Jaehaerys assured them the Faith had no need of weapons because it had the protection of the Iron Throne, militants actually listened.

Go back and reread AFfC and FaB. Maegor's laws outlawed the Faith Militant and disarmed the Faith. Jaehaerys I's laws took away their right to conduct trials. Both were overturned by King Tommen.

Jaehaerys I himself lets his uncle's laws stand, all he does is rescind the bounties and allow the Poor Fellows to take the black.

37 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

We don't actually know what he'd been teaching in the past, the era of the Seven Speakers was long before. The Targaryens were overthrown, and we've heard their downfall attributed to their practice of incest. The dragons that justified their customs died long ago. The High Sparrow has overturned a centuries old arrangement between the Faith and the Iron Throne, and if he were to go further and entirely renounce the legitimacy of a king he'd somewhat reluctantly endorsed, the most likely ground to do so would be accepting the accusation of incest which officially was the reason for his delay. It would be quite muddled to remove a dynasty due to the abomination of incest only to replace them with a new one whose incest is legitimized. The chance result of there not being any sisters for Rhaegar to marry means that Aegon serves as a non-incestuous rival to Tommen.

You are inventing things. The Targaryens weren't overthrown because they practiced incest, nor is that given as official explanation as why they were overthrown, especially not by the Faith.

The new High Septon didn't change any of the Faith's doctrines, he merely asked the Iron Throne to overturn the laws of Maegor and the laws of Jaehaerys which forbade them arms and the right to conduct trials.

The Faith itself teaches the Targaryens are not lesser men, meaning Cersei's incest definitely is a sin why any incest done by Targaryens would be a sin.

37 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

We don't hear about Rhaegar speaking to his father about "the Lyanna issue". Even her whereabouts seem to have been unknown after basically all the loyalists bent the knee to Robert.

Of course not. Because nobody so far told us what Rhaegar and his father talked about after Rhaegar's return. But they would have talked about a number of things.