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Daeron the Daring

Saddles and armors for dragons.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:
 

True.....but it's "engines". If it was dragons, wouldn't it be like "Beasts of War" or something like that?

Ok so this is a stretch but...

Ayrmidon is very similar to Myrmidon, the famous "ant-people" soldiers of Achilles, famous for their loyalty and armor. Although obviously "Ayr-" sounds like "Air". Troy was perhaps the most famous siege of all time. (There is a fantastic rabbit hole about the parallels between the sack of Troy and the Fall of Valyria and the sack of King's Landing I will refrain from fully diving into).

"Engines" the word, in ASoIaF, is exclusively used in the title "Ayrmidon's Engines of War" and as part of "siege engines".

Obviously, a medieval siege was usually an attempt to take a castle.

Quote

Catelyn could remember hearing Old Nan tell the story to her own children, back at Winterfell. "And King Harren learned that thick walls and high towers are small use against dragons," the tale always ended. "For dragons fly."

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn I

But literally, "siege" means seat.

Edited by Mourning Star

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On 5/4/2021 at 6:45 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

But how's the dragon going to stay aloft with the weight of the armor?

Such a plate wouldn't weight more than 2-3% of the animal's weight, which isn't really a big deal.

Yes, in the case of horses such an amount of weight could actually matter when it comes to racing. But a dragon wearing plate armour would not want to race, no? IF dragonarmor can be effective in battle against another dragon, the weight surely isn't a problem. However, we don't know if it's useful or not, or what really is up with it. Just pure speculation.

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16 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Such a plate wouldn't weight more than 2-3% of the animal's weight, which isn't really a big deal.

 

It'd have to be heavy enough to reflect a scorpion bolt. And with dragon battles, speed helps. 

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12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

It'd have to be heavy enough to reflect a scorpion bolt.

First of ally scorpion bolts can not penetrate a dragon's scaly chest, in the case of a bigger dragon. Dragons like Seasmoke, Tessarion or Syrax wouldn't have needed an armor against scorpion bolts. 

12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

And with dragon battles, speed helps. 

Not necesarilly. But here's the thing: A plate around the weight I mentioned above would affect a dragon's speed only after a very long time. What would really decrease in such a case is the animal's stamina.

Now imagine Caraxes v Vhagar with Caraxes wearing an armor. In that case, Vhagar wouldn't had been able to open Caraxes' belly with his claws, and the dragon might have survived, even if only with a single wing.

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16 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

First of ally scorpion bolts can not penetrate a dragon's scaly chest, in the case of a bigger dragon. Dragons like Seasmoke, Tessarion or Syrax wouldn't have needed an armor against scorpion bolts. 

Not necesarilly. But here's the thing: A plate around the weight I mentioned above would affect a dragon's speed only after a very long time. What would really decrease in such a case is the animal's stamina.

Now imagine Caraxes v Vhagar with Caraxes wearing an armor. In that case, Vhagar wouldn't had been able to open Caraxes' belly with his claws, and the dragon might have survived, even if only with a single wing.

where do you think dragon armor would come from

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4 hours ago, Orion2 said:

where do you think dragon armor would come from

If there will be any, I think it'll either be found at Dragonstone, or Daenerys concidentally finds one in Essos.

Note that the armor worn by Balerion during the conquest would be too big for any dragon, if it exists (this assumption is semi-canon at best).

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On 5/6/2021 at 12:57 AM, Daeron the Daring said:

Now imagine Caraxes v Vhagar with Caraxes wearing an armor. In that case, Vhagar wouldn't had been able to open Caraxes' belly with his claws, and the dragon might have survived, even if only with a single wing.

No point of a crippled dragon. 

 

On 5/6/2021 at 12:57 AM, Daeron the Daring said:

Now imagine Caraxes v Vhagar with Caraxes wearing an armor. In that case, Vhagar wouldn't had been able to open Caraxes' belly with his claws, and the dragon might have survived, even if only with a single wing.

Syrax might've been fine, but Tessarion and Seasmoke were young dragons and their scales were not as hard as their kin, Vhagar and Vermithor. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2021 at 10:53 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

No point of a crippled dragon.

That wasn't the point of my argument. It was that the armor would've been effective against Vhagar's claws.

On 5/7/2021 at 10:53 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Syrax might've been fine, but Tessarion and Seasmoke were young dragons and their scales were not as hard as their kin, Vhagar and Vermithor. 

Comparing any of the three dragons I mentioned to Vermithor or Vhagar is pointless. Vermithor was three times as big as Tessarion.

Now to get into dragons:

Seasmoke: By 101, Laenor bonded with Seasmoke, but was too young to ride the dragon. That means that the dragon was at least 30 during the Dance, 40 at best if we consider him being a hatchling that grow along Laenor. Still, by the time of the Dance he was described as a young one who couldn't match Vermithor, altough he wasn't a young one at that point.

Tessarion: So, by 120 AC, Daeron is said to be bonded with the she-dragon Tessarion. Now, if Tessarion came from a cradle egg (which is likely), she was 15-16 years old during the Dance. This is also somewhat backed by the fact that Tessarion was a female, and to lay eggs, one would need to be a few years old. But even if he wasn't Dareon's cradle egg, she'd be 20 at max, but I'd rather go with a 15-16 year Tessarion. Yet, at such a young age, she managed to be one third of the size of Vermithor. That's at least impressing, compared to Seasmoke who might had been double her age but still realively small and comparable in size to her.

Syrax: Rhaenyra first took her as her mount in 104 AC, and she named her, given that she was a recently born and young dragon. That implies that Syrax was 30 at best, yet she was compared to Caraxes rather than Seasmoke, altough not as fearsome and battle-hardened. Still, Caraxes was at least 60 years old by that time, and Syrax was still compared to him instead of Seasmoke.

And finally Sunfyre and Meleys: So Sunfyre was older than Tessarion, but much bigger as well. He was described as huge and heavy despite his age, which likely isn't more than 25 years even if he didn't came from Aegon's cradle egg. Still I'd bet Sunfyre was bigger than Seasmoke. Yet he was no match to Meleys, who was said to be one to Vhagar, who was 181 by that time, and Meleys at least 60 as well as Caraxes, and given that she might be older than Caraxes, she was still swifter than him when both were of rideable size, so that age difference could not be that much, altough Meleys is the bigger one. 

Finally, as you can see, age is sometimes a number, and younger dragons can sometimes be bigger than older ones. I have a list of the dragons that ranks them by the aspect of which would've been the bigger one if all lived 220 years. If all lived 220 years, Vermithor would've been bigger than Vhagar, I believe, maybe Syrax, Sunfyre, Meleys or Tessarion too would've overgrown Sheepstealear, Silverwing and Dreamfyre, but dragons like Seasmoke, Moondancer and even Caraxes would've ended up in the second half of this list. If you're interested in it, I can show you this list. It's personal speculation after all, but I think it's somewhat accurate.

Edited by Daeron the Daring

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On 5/6/2021 at 9:41 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

Note that the armor worn by Balerion during the conquest would be too big for any dragon, if it exists (this assumption is semi-canon at best).

Balerion didn't wear armor, I have no idea where you're getting this. 

5 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

If all lived 220 years, Vermithor would've been bigger than Vhagar, I believe, maybe Syrax, Sunfyre, Meleys or Tessarion

Not if they be locked up. 

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On 5/6/2021 at 10:41 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

If there will be any, I think it'll either be found at Dragonstone, or Daenerys concidentally finds one in Essos.

Note that the armor worn by Balerion during the conquest would be too big for any dragon, if it exists (this assumption is semi-canon at best).

I think it would be cool but also really sad if there is dragon on dragon conflict. It's difficult for me to see anyone getting dragon armor but thats just me. What do you think the circumstances of someone needing or getting dragon armor would be. Obviously from dragon stone or Essos but like what else is going on in the story? I wonder where Euron really got his Valyrian scale armor. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Balerion didn't wear armor, I have no idea where you're getting this. 

There is a picture of him in the TWOIAF wearing an armor. This is, however, is semi-canon confirmation only, I am told, but at least you can consider this as proof for such things existing, or I dunno.

 

10 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Not if they be locked up.

Most of them were locked up the all the time, the others only most of the time, but the dragons weren't really moving around when they weren't ridden, especially not the smaller ones. Syrax spent his life on chains, even on Dragonstone (otherwise the claim that chains slowed her down makes no sense, since Rhaenyra was living on Dragonstone since she married Laenor) Tessarion was om chains even when Daeron was en route to King's Landing and wasn't using him, Balerion spent his last 100 years on chains, etc... It doesn't seem to affect how big a dragon grows. Balerion was said to be growing and growing constantly til his death. Not enough food might do, however, as other things too.

Edited by Daeron the Daring

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11 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

There is a picture of him in the TWOIAF wearing an armor. This is, however, is semi-canon confirmation only, I am told, but at least you can consider this as proof for such things existing, or I dunno.

 

That's not armor, that's a saddle. 

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15 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Dude, the dragon has a fancy chestplate on him.

yeah he do be wearing armor @Jaenara Belarys

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Posted (edited)

"Blistering treasures! It's Red Rackham's barnacles!"

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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