Sending Euron to the Wall

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Harren certainly owned more land and people in the greenlands then at home, but he was still ironborn to the core with his array or thralls and salt wives.

I agree that Harren sent his brother to the wall, as no one else seems possible of it, but im sure it was for a reason. Not just that he was born from a salt wife greenlander, which i think your alluding to but this is the first time ive ever heard that

Great guess, but you gave me too much credit in that.  I assumed it was a bit of a parallel to Balon exiling Euron.  Euron deserved exile and I think Balon had to know what a creep his brother was.  Though I'm hesitant to go so far as Balon fearing Euron, all these kings we've seen make arrangements to secure their positions.  Exiling a brother is a pretty big step to take, but a smart one.  Forcing a brother to take the black would be the same sort of security assuring penalty.  

[Hugorfonics]

25 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Great guess, but you gave me too much credit in that.  

Oh, thatd be cool though. I hoped you had evidence lol

26 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I assumed it was a bit of a parallel to Balon exiling Euron

Yea maybe

27 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Euron deserved exile

Idk... Maybe... Although Victarion doing a number on his wife certainly had to sway Balons decision. 

Tbh I think theres more to the story

31 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I think Balon had to know what a creep his brother was.  Though I'm hesitant to go so far as Balon fearing Euron,

Yea I wouldnt say so either, he is lord reaver after all

34 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

.  Exiling a brother is a pretty big step to take, but a smart one.

Well, I wouldn't say smart... Because hes dead. 

36 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Forcing a brother to take the black would be the same sort of security assuring penalty.  

Ok, so no one is ever forced to take the black. First they train themselves and learn the ways of the watch, then they voluntarily say the words.

It just so happens that 99% of the nw are given the choice (by their king, so it musta been easier to ditch the wall pre aegon) of going to and staying at the wall or, you know, not lol.

Euron wasnt legally arrested or anything as he never did anything illegal

[Curled Finger]

45 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Idk... Maybe... Although Victarion doing a number on his wife certainly had to sway Balons decision. 

Tbh I think theres more to the story

Yea I wouldnt say so either, he is lord reaver after all

Well, I wouldn't say smart... Because hes dead. 

Ok, so no one is ever forced to take the black. First they train themselves and learn the ways of the watch, then they voluntarily say the words.

It just so happens that 99% of the nw are given the choice (by their king, so it musta been easier to ditch the wall pre aegon) of going to and staying at the wall or, you know, not lol.

Euron wasnt legally arrested or anything as he never did anything illegal

You make sterling points.  I will add, because I forgot earlier, that is telling of the entire Greyjoy experience that Victarion kills his wife, which may or may not be punishable in light of her alleged offense, but Euron is punished for his part in this crime.  Not sure how you get to live if you rape but not if you are raped, but we know women are not valued particularly highly here.  Have I missed or misinterpreted Euron's exile?  If it is as I have seen, Balon jumped on the opportunity to rid himself of a brother who may not have proven his loyalty or just been a big trouble maker.   Balon may have actually added to his years by sending Euron away, though your point is clear.  Victarion proved to be loyal and dedicated and fearsome.  Euron went off to become a rock star.  It's very strange.  

You know, we rarely discuss a man's willingness to actually take the Black.  I'd like to know what happened to some of them who did not take the vows.  Not the sentinels, please, that's a wholly different discussion.  I'm sure they're still criminals subject to the King's justice but you know there are bound to be some who think they can outsmart the system.  Find someway across the seas, build a keep and marry their daughters, you know that sort of unlikeliness.   Would the Wildlings take on guys like this?  Wow, lots to think about there.  

I concede we don't know that there were arrests.  This is such an interesting piece of the Ironborn story, to their laws, traditions, cultures.  Martin doesn't always tell us all we want to know as he often diverts to leaving bread crumb trails in other plots.   Do you think Victarion's wife's murder was an honor killing?  

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

is telling of the entire Greyjoy experience that Victarion kills his wife, which may or may not be punishable in light of her alleged offense, but Euron is punished for his part in this crime

Very interesting point. 

Adultery is not illegal, even for ironborn women as we see Asha cheat on her husband without feeling like a criminal.

Its very telling imo about Balon, that hed side so heavily with Victarion over Euron. Its strange really considering Euron gave his kingdom the only brief glory in Balons war (although it was Victarion who personally threw the first torch). I really think theres more to the story.

But this story that may be incomplete is much more then the average ironborn knows, as Asha hears this all for the first time. So Balon definitely wanted the story hushed up

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Not sure how you get to live if you rape but not if you are raped, but we know women are not valued particularly highly here

Euron didnt rape her. She came to him. 

Thats true, salt wife doesn't sound like a very valued title... Although much more then whore, camp follower or captain of the stormcrows. But either way, not valuable enough

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Have I missed or misinterpreted Euron's exile?  If it is as I have seen, Balon jumped on the opportunity to rid himself of a brother who may not have proven his loyalty or just been a big trouble maker

Euron certainly proved himself valuable, say what you will about him but hes no craven.

Neither is Balon but what your suggesting is he feared his kin and thusly created the monster he becomes which is totally rule number one in Tywin Lannisters playbook, but Balons? 

I suppose its possible, after all he did die by a faceless, so, props. Ya know no one can expect that, and even if they did, lol, "say my name"

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Balon may have actually added to his years by sending Euron away, though your point is clear.

lol thanks. Its like my whole janos slynt shoulda lived spiel. People are like, Janos was trying to kill Jon! And im like, "Jons dead"

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Victarion proved to be loyal and dedicated and fearsome.  Euron went off to become a rock star.  It's very strange.  

Well after Balon hushed up Victarions ghastly murder hes owed a little bit of loyalty lol.

And Euron was born a rock star. He just had to learn the music

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

You know, we rarely discuss a man's willingness to actually take the Black.  I'd like to know what happened to some of them who did not take the vows.  Not the sentinels, please, that's a wholly different discussion.  I'm sure they're still criminals subject to the King's justice but you know there are bound to be some who think they can outsmart the system.  Find someway across the seas, build a keep and marry their daughters, you know that sort of unlikeliness.   Would the Wildlings take on guys like this?  Wow, lots to think about there.  

Well eventually some ones going to drag you to a sept, or a tree, and listen intently. If your just like "nah", theyre probably gonna send a few ravens, or maybe just kill you there. (Regarding the 99%, not the 1% that is known as Jon Snow)

Best time to desert would probably be idk, i guess ides of marsh time is good, a few almost made it out after the old bear got wacked.

Wildlings, the wild ones at least, maybe? Depends on the wildling id guess, like Ygritte and LordObones. A bunch of wildlings were looking on not really caring if the deserter should live or die

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

I concede we don't know that there were arrests.  This is such an interesting piece of the Ironborn story, to their laws, traditions, cultures.  Martin doesn't always tell us all we want to know as he often diverts to leaving bread crumb trails in other plots.   

Yea lots of stuffs ambiguous, and ironborn are all over the place. But why I like them working with the nw is the same reason i like them calling themselves lords and kings in the castle, cuz despite their contempt of the greenlands, theyre obviously westerosi

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Do you think Victarion's wife's murder was an honor killing?  

Idk what that means lol. Do I think there was a sense of legality to it? No. 

Like, with your fists? Gotta be 1st degree

[Curled Finger]

5 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Very interesting point. 

Adultery is not illegal, even for ironborn women as we see Asha cheat on her husband without feeling like a criminal.

Its very telling imo about Balon, that hed side so heavily with Victarion over Euron. Its strange really considering Euron gave his kingdom the only brief glory in Balons war (although it was Victarion who personally threw the first torch). I really think theres more to the story.

But this story that may be incomplete is much more then the average ironborn knows, as Asha hears this all for the first time. So Balon definitely wanted the story hushed up

Euron didnt rape her. She came to him. 

Thats true, salt wife doesn't sound like a very valued title... Although much more then whore, camp follower or captain of the stormcrows. But either way, not valuable enough

Euron certainly proved himself valuable, say what you will about him but hes no craven.

Neither is Balon but what your suggesting is he feared his kin and thusly created the monster he becomes which is totally rule number one in Tywin Lannisters playbook, but Balons? 

I suppose its possible, after all he did die by a faceless, so, props. Ya know no one can expect that, and even if they did, lol, "say my name"

lol thanks. Its like my whole janos slynt shoulda lived spiel. People are like, Janos was trying to kill Jon! And im like, "Jons dead"

Well after Balon hushed up Victarions ghastly murder hes owed a little bit of loyalty lol.

And Euron was born a rock star. He just had to learn the music

Well eventually some ones going to drag you to a sept, or a tree, and listen intently. If your just like "nah", theyre probably gonna send a few ravens, or maybe just kill you there. (Regarding the 99%, not the 1% that is known as Jon Snow)

Best time to desert would probably be idk, i guess ides of marsh time is good, a few almost made it out after the old bear got wacked.

Wildlings, the wild ones at least, maybe? Depends on the wildling id guess, like Ygritte and LordObones. A bunch of wildlings were looking on not really caring if the deserter should live or die

Yea lots of stuffs ambiguous, and ironborn are all over the place. But why I like them working with the nw is the same reason i like them calling themselves lords and kings in the castle, cuz despite their contempt of the greenlands, theyre obviously westerosi

Idk what that means lol. Do I think there was a sense of legality to it? No. 

Like, with your fists? Gotta be 1st degree

Hrm, well maybe it's very biblical like not laying with your brother's wife.  Something archaic that wouldn't normally occur to a fairly decent modern person.   However, your mention of Euron and Vic's wife approaching him could be the answer to the whole thing.  It would be bad juju to sleep with your sister-in-law (good sister?); the repercussions would be her death and his exile.  If you believe she approached Euron.  Still, why would Euron tell Victarion this awful thing?  Was it part of his master plan to eliminate all his brothers?  If so, why didn't it work in Euron's favor?  Just weird. 

Honor killing is cultural thing (best I can gather anyway) wherein male relatives (father, brothers) being duty bound to kill a female relative when she is perceived to have brought dishonor on the family.  I watch too much crime, sorry.  As our conversation unwinds I find this concept quite fitting for the Ironborn culture.  

[Hugorfonics]

9 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Hrm, well maybe it's very biblical like not laying with your brother's wife.  Something archaic that wouldn't normally occur to a fairly decent modern person.   However, your mention of Euron and Vic's wife approaching him could be the answer to the whole thing.  It would be bad juju to sleep with your sister-in-law (good sister?); the repercussions would be her death and his exile.  If you believe she approached Euron.  Still, why would Euron tell Victarion this awful thing?  Was it part of his master plan to eliminate all his brothers?  If so, why didn't it work in Euron's favor?  Just weird. 

Honor killing is cultural thing (best I can gather anyway) wherein male relatives (father, brothers) being duty bound to kill a female relative when she is perceived to have brought dishonor on the family.  I watch too much crime, sorry.  As our conversation unwinds I find this concept quite fitting for the Ironborn culture.  

So, Vic confronts Euron. (Full quote last page) so, unless he like tats up crowz I waz here, id say that Vics wife told him about it outta the blue. Probably wasnt a healthy marriage to begin with. 

Its all mysterious though on why Euron left and I guess whatever happened to the wife, if there was some honor killing thing that ironborn vibed at then Victarion probably wouldnt be as ashamed as his bout of murderous insanity.

[Curled Finger]

4 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

So, Vic confronts Euron. (Full quote last page) so, unless he like tats up crowz I waz here, id say that Vics wife told him about it outta the blue. Probably wasnt a healthy marriage to begin with. 

Its all mysterious though on why Euron left and I guess whatever happened to the wife, if there was some honor killing thing that ironborn vibed at then Victarion probably wouldnt be as ashamed as his bout of murderous insanity.

Shuddering.  Man these guys are bad.  

[Hugorfonics]

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Shuddering.  Man these guys are bad.  

Lol. Hell yea, i love em