Mourning Star Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: You heard Maester Luwin. People know that the COTF existed, but they think that the COTF are extinct. And also, how do you talk to somebody you can't find? In addition, we don't know without a doubt that the singers speak the same True Tongue as the WW. Maesters are not the only source of information, especially about the supernatural, and have their own motives. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." Howland Reed managed it: "It was the green men he meant to find. So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Howland Reed freaking managed it in PEACETIME. In order to get to the Green Men now, you'd have to cross a massive war zone filled with outlaws, Lannister troops who are not noted to be humanitarians, Bolton troops..... need I say more? And Howland Reed was one man. You'd want as many people to know the language as possible and you have no time to run back and forth across said war zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Do you want them to be exterminated by the Others?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 And Maester Luwin has a Valyrian steel link. He's at least more amenable to the old stories and legends. And he lives in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 41 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: No human should ever, ever commit genocide on other humans. If the non humans are sentient ( like theoretical aliens), and you know that they will never stop, never make a peace then maybe, maybe you should consider using the option of last resort. As you said, we don't know what the Others want, so we can't know they won't stop, in fact, they stopped in the past. And no side has ever tried to make peace. But I don't see how the situation changes if the ones being exterminated are humans or not. Same example I gave with LOTR, what makes anyone human? Is Hitler more worthy of empathy than Samwise just because one's a human and the other a hobbit? And what makes a human 'worth more' than other species? is it that they are more alike to us? does that mean that people with the same ethnicity are worth more to each other than people with another ethnicity? I think Valiryans are ASOIAF's version of Elves and First Men are ASOIAF's version of Dwarves, but if they where actual Elves and Dwarves, the same individuals, same history, same everything, with the exception of the text stating that they aren't human, would that make genocide against them good? 39 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Considering what we have seen of Waymar's personality, he probably would've attacked. But it didn't happen that way. It doesn't matter, the fact is that the Others acted like most Westerosi warriors would've acted, so we can't assume they are evil based on this, at least, they are not more evil than an average warrior. 37 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: The free folk have lived beyond the Wall for presumably hundreds, maybe thousands of years. If this is true, the attacks from the WWs would have escalated a long time ago. Craster has been giving up sons for a long time, the Freefolk have bee fighting the Others for a long time, but some factors can change, after all, we must assume that after the Long Night the Others surrendered or ceased to exist for a while. Maybe they don't have such strong numbers, and they felt like Humans would end them, maybe they waited until their numbers recovered, or until they gathered enough wights, maybe they waited until Humans forgot how to fight them. 35 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: They kill on the orders of their riders. That's like blaming the hammer for smashing in somebody's head rather than the person who swung the hammer. I never blamed the dragons... I said that ending an entire race via dragonbreath is similar to nuclear holocaust. Edit: You should start replying in one post, rather than for or five small ones. The way to do it is either with the 'plus' button next to the 'quote' button, which allows you to quote several posts at once without taking you to write the post until you want. If you are quoting the same post more than once you can either quote the post many times or take the simpler path and quote it once and then use the copy and paste function combined with the quotation marks symbol that shows up at the top of the screen when you are writing a post. Also, you should read the Style Guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Craster's "long time" is not anywhere close to 8000 years. And we don't know that the Free Folk have be fighting the Others for a "long time". If that happened they would have run south long ago, because they would have had their butts kicked. 6 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: I said that ending an entire race The Others are not another race. They are basically dead humans reanimated by magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Craster's "long time" is not anywhere close to 8000 years. No it's not, but we don't know if they where active before him. Quote And we don't know that the Free Folk have be fighting the Others for a "long time". Yes we do, several members of the Freefolk say so. Quote If that happened they would have run south long ago, because they would have had their butts kicked. Maybe they were smaller attacks, like we are told they were, they started increasing in frequency and in amount of casualties. Also, I already explained why this doesn't matter, but you ignored it. Quote The Others are not another race. They are basically dead humans reanimated by magic. Based on what? Also, I'm copying and pasting this because given how quickly you replied I assume you missed it. Edit: You should start replying in one post, rather than for or five small ones. The way to do it is either with the 'plus' button next to the 'quote' button, which allows you to quote several posts at once without taking you to write the post until you want. If you are quoting the same post more than once you can either quote the post many times or take the simpler path and quote it once and then use the copy and paste function combined with the quotation marks symbol that shows up at the top of the screen when you are writing a post. Also, you should read the Style Guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: Yes we do, several members of the Freefolk say so. If so, then why didn't it escalate sooner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: If so, then why didn't it escalate sooner? That question makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Just now, CamiloRP said: That question makes no sense How does this not make sense? If they had been fighting a long time, the fighting would have driven them south long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: How does this not make sense? If they had been fighting a long time, the fighting would have driven them south long ago. No, because they didn't have a leader a long time ago, and many members of the Freefolk did travel south before. And that's not how escalation works, if before they were just a few attacks here and there, with little casualties, most people would just stay in their homes counting on them not being attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Who says that the White Walkers didn't have a leader? The white walkers most certainly had and have a leader. These things don't elect a person, it's probably a Night King situation. Granted, that's show canon, having the one supreme leader, but if the White Walkers effectively started with Night's King, why shouldn't Night's King be the leader of the the Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Who says that the White Walkers didn't have a leader? I meant the Freefolk. They didn't have a leader yet, so a coordinated emigration wouldn't be possible. Quote The white walkers most certainly had and have a leader. These things don't elect a person, it's probably a Night King situation. Granted, that's show canon, having the one supreme leader, but why wouldn't it work for book white walkers? Ohhh so now I see where you get the 'The Others are not another race. They are basically dead humans reanimated by magic. 100% confirmed" thing, but no. The books and the show are two very different animals. We have no reason to think the Others are Human corpses, and we don't know if the Others have a leader, or if they are a collective consciousness or whatever else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, CamiloRP said: in fact, they stopped in the past. They probably stopped in the past because they didn't have the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: The books and the show are two very different animals I said this, but you seem to have ignored this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: I meant the Freefolk. They didn't have a leader yet, so a coordinated emigration wouldn't be possible. This is completely false. The free folk have had kings. Granted, the wildings don't really follow a leader to the letter, but still the leader is probably able to get them to migrate south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: They probably stopped in the past because they didn't have the numbers. Yes, I said that, which means they wouldn't be attacking the Humans even if they where trespassing in their lands. It was actually a point I made. 5 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: I said this, but you seem to have ignored this. No I didn't, but you need to provide textual reasons for the Others being reanimated human corpses or them following a 'night king'. Otherwise, we would assume eight year old Podrick Payne is a sex god based solely on the show. 1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said: This is completely false. The free folk have had kings. Granted, the wildings don't really follow a leader to the letter, but still the leader is probably able to get them to migrate south. Yes, but they had kings sporadically, they not always have kings, before Mance, they didn't, and almost every time they did, they tried to invade south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 @Jaenara Belarys You should start replying in one post, rather than for or five small ones. The way to do it is either with the 'plus' button next to the 'quote' button, which allows you to quote several posts at once without taking you to write the post until you want. If you are quoting the same post more than once you can either quote the post many times or take the simpler path and quote it once and then use the copy and paste function combined with the quotation marks symbol that shows up at the top of the screen when you are writing a post. Also, you should read the Style Guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: You should start replying in one post, rather than for or five small ones I realize this, it's a bad habit. Sorry if it makes a problem. Edit: Style Guide read, I'll try to abide by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Signing off, bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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