Tower of joy

[nik854866]

For some time  now i have doubts that jon is born at tower joy ,many things just dont add up at tower of joy

Edited November 14, 2022 by nik854866
mistake

[Craving Peaches]

What things specifically do you feel don't add up?

[nik854866]

Like it sounds impossible for ned to tear down tower it would take months if not years and why did they fight ,and how do we know everything from neds dream really happened it was a fever dream i also think timeline doesnt add up 

Edited November 14, 2022 by nik854866

[1000th Lord Commander]

It says that Eddard had the tower torn down, not that he and Howland did it himself. Likely he found a nearby village, and commanded them to do it.

[EggBlue]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:56 PM, nik854866 said:

For some time  now i have doubts that jon is born at tower joy ,many things just dont add up at tower of joy

tower thing seems kinda stupid to me too * . but I neither been able to find good arguments for it nor against it , so, I have decided to ignore GoT's confirmation and wait for  more reasonable accounts of tower of joy and Jon's birth by Martin!

* then again , in the same book that we hear of toj , Cat , a noble lady , travels half of Westeros with only ONE knight . then , perhaps we shouldn't think that hard about any of it 

[nik854866]

Also neds  accounts mostly come from   a  fever dream i doubt that can be trusted .

[johnrreyna]

Something I always found odd is that Dany's memories of the house with the red door, with the lemon tree outside her window, being in Braavos make no sense. Citrus cannot grow in Braavos, and this has been reinforced time and time again, most recently in the Arya sample chapter in Winds when Raff the Sweetling was called a fool for asking where the citrus trees and bare-bellied girls were when he accompanied Harys Swyft to Braavos as his guard. Not only that, apparently, before AGoT was published, George published some Dany chapters as a short story in a sci-fi/fantasy magazine, wherein the house with the red door was in Tyrosh rather than Braavos. Lastly, Rhaella Targaryen was said to have had tremendous difficulty carrying a child to term after Viserys was born, having many stillbirths and children who died in infancy. Then miraculously, she supposedly got pregnant with and gave birth to a healthy child in Dany.

I would not be surprised if Dany was actually Rhaegar and Lyanna's daughter, and Ned's promise to Lyanna was to keep Dany safe by sending her across the Narrow Sea to Tyrosh to live in exile in the house with the red door. The Tower of Joy is roughly the same latitude as Tyrosh, and is relatively close to the sea of Dorne. This would make Dany the "prince[ess] that was promised," as Maester Aemon told Sam that he thought that Dany was the prince that was promised and that the word "prince" in High Valyrian was gender neutral. Moreover, when Cat asks Ned about Jon's parentage, he gets furious and tells her to never mention Ashara Dayne again. That is kind of odd, since Cat never mentioned her. It is possible that Jon is actually the child of Ned and Ashara. Now, I think the chances of this are low, but the number of unknowns in this story is puzzling.

Lastly, Dany thinks she went across the Narrow Sea with Willam Darry, but it actually could have been Willem Dustin, one of Ned's companions at the tower. Their names were similar enough that a young girl may have misremembered, especially hearing how Willam Darry was the master at arms of the Red Keep and how the Darrys were fervent Targ supporters. Viserys may have lied to Dany about who "Willam Darry" actually was in order to maintain the ruse, or maybe he was lied to as well. In this case, the 8 cairns may have been for the 7 dead combatants as well as Lyanna. Barbrey Dustin mentioned to Theon how she hates Ned for never returning Willem Dustin's bones back to her; this may have been because he never died.

Aforementioned, I think the chances of this are low, but I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case.

Edited October 1, 2023 by johnrreyna
Added another thing I forgot

[Red Eyed White Dire Wolf]

On 10/1/2023 at 3:09 PM, johnrreyna said:

Something I always found odd is that Dany's memories of the house with the red door, with the lemon tree outside her window, being in Braavos make no sense. Citrus cannot grow in Braavos, and this has been reinforced time and time again, most recently in the Arya sample chapter in Winds when Raff the Sweetling was called a fool for asking where the citrus trees and bare-bellied girls were when he accompanied Harys Swyft to Braavos as his guard. Not only that, apparently, before AGoT was published, George published some Dany chapters as a short story in a sci-fi/fantasy magazine, wherein the house with the red door was in Tyrosh rather than Braavos. Lastly, Rhaella Targaryen was said to have had tremendous difficulty carrying a child to term after Viserys was born, having many stillbirths and children who died in infancy. Then miraculously, she supposedly got pregnant with and gave birth to a healthy child in Dany.

I would not be surprised if Dany was actually Rhaegar and Lyanna's daughter, and Ned's promise to Lyanna was to keep Dany safe by sending her across the Narrow Sea to Tyrosh to live in exile in the house with the red door. The Tower of Joy is roughly the same latitude as Tyrosh, and is relatively close to the sea of Dorne. This would make Dany the "prince[ess] that was promised," as Maester Aemon told Sam that he thought that Dany was the prince that was promised and that the word "prince" in High Valyrian was gender neutral. Moreover, when Cat asks Ned about Jon's parentage, he gets furious and tells her to never mention Ashara Dayne again. That is kind of odd, since Cat never mentioned her. It is possible that Jon is actually the child of Ned and Ashara. Now, I think the chances of this are low, but the number of unknowns in this story is puzzling.

Lastly, Dany thinks she went across the Narrow Sea with Willam Darry, but it actually could have been Willem Dustin, one of Ned's companions at the tower. Their names were similar enough that a young girl may have misremembered, especially hearing how Willam Darry was the master at arms of the Red Keep and how the Darrys were fervent Targ supporters. Viserys may have lied to Dany about who "Willam Darry" actually was in order to maintain the ruse, or maybe he was lied to as well. In this case, the 8 cairns may have been for the 7 dead combatants as well as Lyanna. Barbrey Dustin mentioned to Theon how she hates Ned for never returning Willem Dustin's bones back to her; this may have been because he never died.

Aforementioned, I think the chances of this are low, but I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case.

After reading and listening to the available books and audiobooks over 15 times or more by now, I believe Jon Snow is the legitimate son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.  Rhaegar was married to Elia Martel. They had two children, Aegon Targaryen and his sister Rheanys Targaryen.  After the birth of Rheanys, Rhaegar was told by the maesters that Elia can no longer bear another child as it will kill her. According to Daenerys Targaryen vision in the house of the undying, Rhaegar was seen and heard taking to Elia Martel saying “The Dragon must have 3 heads”.  To make a long story short, Rhaegar married Lyanna Stark as a second wife just like Aegon the Conquer married his two sisters. Elia out of duty and Lyanna out of love.  From the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna comes who we know as Jon Snow. I Believe Jon’s real name will be Amon Targaryen after Maester Amon which Rhaegar had a close relationship with especially concerning the prophecy of Ice and Fire and Maester Amon was named after Amon Targaryen the Dragon Knight. Jon Snow shows a lot of the same personal characteristics of Amon the Dragon Knight when you go back and re read what little passages there are about him.  Jon Is the third head of the Dragon, half brother to Aegon the VI and nephew to Daenerys Targaryen.  When Eddard Stark found his sister Lyanna in the Tower of Joy, Lyanna made Eddard promise her something. If Jon is truly the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, his life would be in danger if Robert Baratheon ever found out. Robert’s hatred of Rhaegar out weighs his love for Lyanna and so Jon must die if his identity was known. Just like the other Dragon Spawn.  Not to forget, Ser Arthur Dane “The Sword of the Morning” Rhaegar Targaryens closest friend after Jon Connington. Ser Gerald Hightower the Lord Commander of the Kings Guard was also guarding the Lyanna Stark and her newborn child. Why else would the Commander of the Kings Guard sit and protect Lyanna Stark and her child if they were not part of the royal family at this point? The Lord Commander stays with the King or Prince in times of trouble.  

  Jon Snow’s personality parallels that of Rhaegar’s and Amon the Dragon Knight as the story progresses. The only thing missing is someone telling Jon how much he is like Rhaegar in the same way Daenerys has Ser Jorah Mormont and Ser Bartistan Selmy tell her.  So now the story as we wait for book 6 has the 3 Dragon heads and the Prince and Princess that was promised.  It may still be possible that Aegon the VI may be an imposter. The warning Quaithe gave Daenerys, “Beware the Mummers Dragon” a direct reference to Aegon the VI as far as know.