Experiences as a PhD student

[kayrich]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:10 AM, The Anti-Targ said:

Never got anywhere close to doing a PhD, but I have a son who is in his final 6 months of a chemistry PhD.

I think in general he's had a positive experience, he gets on very well with his supervisor and his research group is friendly and social. He's been able to travel and present at a decent number of conferences and even got to one overseas conference (Australia, i.e. next door). There have been frustrations, and he's not big on writing so writing his thesis is going to be the hard bit.

He suspended his PhD for a month one summer to have a proper holiday without eating into his PhD time, and he'll be doing the same again this summer (December). The way it works here, if you take a holiday without suspending your PhD the clock on your PhD (and the scholarship funding) keeps running. By suspending it means your 3 year deadline gets pushed out by the number of weeks you suspend (and you don't get any scholarship payments). You are also not allowed to do any active work on your PhD, I suppose that's to prevent people from gaming the system and giving themselves longer to do their PhD than they supposed to take.

The thing that is stressing him most right now is what comes next. Most of our universities are downsizing in chemistry and physics (and a lot of other departments) and post docs are very hard to come by. So if he stays in the country it'll be very hard to stay in the university system, if he leaves the country to work at an overseas university he'll have to start paying interest on his student loan (student loans are interest free here as long as you continue to live here until it's paid off).

Thanks for sharing this information. I don't work on my PhD yet, but my friend is so I know something too.

And it's good that the research group of your son is nice and relationships with supervisor is good because it's also an important part of the process. I know cases when it was a need to change supervisor because the communication wasn't good, and there was no understanding

[joanellis]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:10 AM, The Anti-Targ said:

Never got anywhere close to doing a PhD, but I have a son who is in his final 6 months of a chemistry PhD.

I think in general he's had a positive experience, he gets on very well with his supervisor and his research group is friendly and social. He's been able to travel and present at a decent number of conferences and even got to one overseas conference (Australia, i.e. next door). There have been frustrations, and he's not big on writing so writing his thesis is going to be the hard bit.

He suspended his PhD for a month one summer to have a proper holiday without eating into his PhD time, and he'll be doing the same again this summer (December). The way it works here, if you take a holiday without suspending your PhD the clock on your PhD (and the scholarship funding) keeps running. By suspending it means your 3 year deadline gets pushed out by the number of weeks you suspend (and you don't get any scholarship payments). You are also not allowed to do any active work on your PhD, I suppose that's to prevent people from gaming the system and giving themselves longer to do their PhD than they supposed to take.

And I know that besides the main goal, he also needs to do a lot of other tasks, which takes time and it's pretty hard to dedicate enough time to everything. But nowadays it's easier to be a student because in the internet you can find everything. For example, this service https://essays.edubirdie.com/dissertation-proposal-writing-services helped him a lot with one part of his paper, which was pretty complicated to finish. And getting professional help was the right decision because it was like a boost to the whole process.The thing that is stressing him most right now is what comes next. Most of our universities are downsizing in chemistry and physics (and a lot of other departments) and post docs are very hard to come by. So if he stays in the country it'll be very hard to stay in the university system, if he leaves the country to work at an overseas university he'll have to start paying interest on his student loan (student loans are interest free here as long as you continue to live here until it's paid off).

Thanks for sharing this information. I'm thinking about starting my PhD next year, but I sitll have some doubts. Maybe I'll wait one more year to be totally sure in my decision, because that journey is hard, and requires a lot of efforts and time

Edited December 19, 2023 by joanellis

[The Anti-Targ]

The take away for me is that while a PhD is a personal end and a great achievement in itself, what comes next and what do you want next are such important questions to think about early on.

[fionwe1987]

I had a 9.5 year PhD where basically, around year 5/6, my thesis committee had declared me ready to defend. But all the cards are held by your thesis advisor, depending on which University you attend. And while my thesis advisor wasn't the worst there could be (no physical or sexual assault, no verbal assaults ether), they were quite happy to keep students around forever to "produce" for the lab. 

As my advisor was very senior in the department and raking in lots of funding (based on grants their students wrote for them), the thesis committees views did not matter. 

All I can say is, be very very very careful to pick someone who shows the qualities of a true mentor interested in your success. Unfortunately, they mostly all know the language needed to pretend that is what they're about. So look to their past record. Look to their future goals. And see if you feel enslaving yourself to their will will be tolerable and will give you something of value in exchange. Otherwise, bail.

The sunk cost fallacy is hardest to fight when the sunk cost is your own effort and time, your own weekends and late nights over years. All I can say from the other side of the PhD is that no matter what effort you've already put in, if there's no end in sight, and only demands for more efforts, ever grander plans where you are the sole person required to keep digging away at some research question your adviser feels attached to... bail.

More years of labor abuse don't make early years of labor abuse worth it.

ETA: I don't want to be a downer. I learned and did a lot in my PhD. Made some of my best friends. Met some of the smartest people I know who continue to enrich me intellectually to this day.

All I'd say is that the value of your PhD is, unfortunately, entirely in the control of your advisor. And the outright nasty advisors are actually a step up, in some ways, than the ones who just don't care much about your success, and see you and all their students as cheap labor.

It frustrates me to this day that this power dynamic, so ripe for all kinds of abuse, is left intact and rarely questioned. Some universities do better, but most don't, especially if your advisor is a "star" who rakes in enough money for your university that they will look right past their own rules to protect these folks. 

It took my cohort a long time to realize that our first impressions of most of the scientists in the department were completely out of whack. That the reputation they have is often created, and bears deeper scrutiny, which we didn't think to do when it mattered most, early in our PhDs. So that would be my advice to you. Set standards for your advisor, and if/when they begin to fail them, consider an exit sooner rather than later. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by fionwe1987

[Phylum of Alexandria]

On 12/15/2023 at 11:05 PM, fionwe1987 said:

All I'd say is that the value of your PhD is, unfortunately, entirely in the control of your advisor. And the outright nasty advisors are actually a step up, in some ways, than the ones who just don't care much about your success, and see you and all their students as cheap labor.

I generally agree, though I'd amend to say that they are two distinctly bad qualities rather than one being better than the other. And they're not mutually exclusive. Plenty of nasty characters happy to milk students for cheap labor!

On 12/15/2023 at 11:05 PM, fionwe1987 said:

It frustrates me to this day that this power dynamic, so ripe for all kinds of abuse, is left intact and rarely questioned. Some universities do better, but most don't, especially if your advisor is a "star" who rakes in enough money for your university that they will look right past their own rules to protect these folks. 

It took my cohort a long time to realize that our first impressions of most of the scientists in the department were completely out of whack. That the reputation they have is often created, and bears deeper scrutiny, which we didn't think to do when it mattered most, early in our PhDs. So that would be my advice to you. Set standards for your advisor, and if/when they begin to fail them, consider an exit sooner rather than later. 

Definitely agree here. Avoid the rock stars! They are very often not as brilliant as they seem (but great at selling an image), unabashedly toxic, or both. There are always exceptions, but the system protects the people who bring in money, and like all similar systems, it leads to gaming and sleaziness.