Clash of Titans: The Eternal Struggle between the Fertility Goddess and the Sky God (of Death) in ASOIAF

[Tradecraft]

The Great Goddess

Fertility deities play a big role in ASOIAF. 

Garth the Green is a Fertility deity. From him springs many of the great houses of Westeros that exist today. It's puzzling that Garth is Male, considering the Fertility deities of the past have been female. But we, like time, must move on. 

It doesn't stop there, Fertility Goddesses are presently worshipped in Lys where he main temple resides. I believe she also has a temple in Braavos. 

In fact, we know Fertility goddess are presently worshipped in ASOIAF. The Mother, Maiden and Crone together form the "Triple Goddess". Their sybols are (respectively); the full moon, the waxing moon and the waning moon. Each stage of the moon represents the three aspects of womanhood (respectively); Adulthood (and fertility), Youth (and inexperience), Old age (and wisdom). So we know that 3 of the 7 (of the Faith of Seven) are related to Fertility Goddess worship. 

In our real world, Fertility Goddess reigned supreme from India to Ireland (perhaps even beyond). We do not know exactly when we began worshipping her, but we know when she lost significant power. This occurred during an apocalyptic event called the Bronze Age Collapse. I wrote about women and bronze symbolism here. 

So what? There are or were Fertility Gods or Goddesses in ASOIAF. Big deal!

It's a big deal

If GRRM has included Fertility Goddesses in ASOIAF that were historically significant in our real world... did he also include her counterpart... the god who usurped her and took her place at the start of the Iron Age (which still continues today)?

Did he now?

The counterpart and rival to the Great Goddess (Fertility, abundance, walled cities, agriculture, female independence and sexuality) is the God of Death. A Sky God. He is depicted as male. He is often associated with storms. In our world, he originated among the nomadic horse warriors of the steppe lands on the fringe of Fertility worshipping civilization. 
 

The God of Death

When the Fertility Goddess was torn down from her place at the center of all things, she did not merely disappear. She was transformed. 

Most commonly she was "demoted". Instead of being defined as "a mother", her place in the pantheon of gods was altered. She instead became "a daughter" and the Gods that supplanted her became chief as "a father" to her the goddess. Elsewhere, he married the Fertility Goddess making her "a wife", tying her to the husband and subordinating her to him (theologically). In this way, the Sky God (God of Death) sought to establish supremacy over the Fertility Goddess (and her worshipers). 

In our world, the Abrahamic religions are death god worshippers. The god of Moses is a destroyer of worlds. A cruel and terrible god. The Christians take this one step further. Their God Jesus, dies on the cross. His birth is celebrated in winter (associated with death) and his death took place in the spring (associating new life with his death). Interestingly, Jesus' mother is a virgin. Thus, it is not her fertility and womanhood that is revered and worshipped but her virginity. Though she is a woman, she is another avatar of the death god but in woman form.  I can't tell you anything about Islam*. So we're moving on. 

Thus we can see that in the faith of the Seven, the Father is a God of Death (like the Father figure Gods in our world). As is the Warrior (who kills). The Smith is also coded as male, and could make machines of war which would also make him a death god. The Stranger, is a death god on its face, and openly called a death god in ASOIAF. It would seem that in ASOIAF, as well as our own world, there was a climactic clash between A Fertility Goddess and the God of Death.

We have still more evidence of the God of Death worship. The Iron Islands worships two gods; The Drowned God and the Storm God. These gods are one, the God of Death. The Storm God is a Sky God, associated with storms which is similar to our own world. The Drowned God is dead, as befitting a God of Death. Indeed, Iron Island houses like the Greyjoys are the God of Death's champions. They proudly herald his coming with words that evoke death itself; "We do not sow". I find it fitting that the Iron Islands are indeed "Iron", which I associated with men, the Iron Age, and the fall of the Bronze Age Goddess worship. What is dead may never die. 

The Facelessmen also worship a death god. The Many-Faced-God. They play no small part in our story.  

The fact that Westeros and elsewhere (Minus the North and Iron Islands) worships these Gods indicates the following;

-The Fertility Goddess once reigned supreme in Westeros (at least where the Faith of the Seven exist)

-She was conquered by the God of Death, A Sky God, a Storm God, depicted as male, and associated with the nomadic horsemen of the steppe.

 

Symbols of the Eternal Battle

If all of this is indeed true. We would need further proof. Perhaps an allegory or some conflicts which mirror or echo this struggle between life and death itself. 
 

-Aegon I Targaryen's attack on Harren the Black at Harrenhal

Aegon attacking Harren the Black, to me, seems like an echo or a parallel to this conflict (Fertility Goddess vs. Death God). For one thing, Aegon attacked from above (like a Sky God would).  Secondly, Aegon attacked on dragonback, which to me is somewhat akin to horseriding and the Sky God is the God (originally) of the Nomadic Horsemen of the steppes. 

Thirdly, the name "Hoare" is an odd one. It has several meanings in the text, but most significantly, it's a homonym for "whore". In a book that constantly reminds the reader that certain words sound similar to another ("Reek it rhymes with meek", "Roose it Rhymes with noose"), the possibilities are intriguing. For if that is the author's intent, we can take this a step further. Prostitution is the oldest profession we know of today. It goes back to at least the Bronze age. And at that time, there existed something called "Sacred prostitution" (which GRRM mentions in ASOIAF, it takes place at the Temple of the Fertility Goddess in Lys). Sacred prostitution is required of all Fertility Goddess Worshippers, once in their lifetimes they must honor the goddess with their own bodies. They must go the temple and offer themselves and take whatever price is given to their first admirer. The money is then given to the temple of the Goddess...

We know a character, an important character, associated with prostitution... and Harrenhal. Littlefinger...

We know there is a Godswood in Harrenhal. And Garth, the Fertility god of Westeros, is associated with Weirwoods. He planted them. 

Thus, we have in one corner a symbolic Sky God slaying a fertility (Godswood) worshipping "Hoares" (whores). 

 -The Blood feud between Blackwood and Bracken

If the Godswood (referred to above) is associated with Fertility (Perhaps it is ironic that Blackwood women are not "blessed with great bossoms", to put it politely) the Blackwoods still worship this god. Indeed, they keep the Weirwood on their Sigil and are its champion. 

Then perhaps, might we say that the Brackens, associating themselves with horses and disassociating themselves from both the Blackwoods and the Weirwoods (they converted to the Faith of the Seven), worship the god of death? 

And might we also say that this battle, this struggle, which will never end (can never end) represents the struggle between the Goddess and the God of Death? It should be noted that the Blackwoods were on the losing side of the War of the Five Kings, like the Goddess herself and the Brackens changed to the winning side (much like the God of Death prevailed in our history). 

If this feud has the greater meaning I assign to it, this battle can never end. Fertility worship is fundamentally opposed to the God of death. Nor can one side triumph over the other, they are locked in eternal battle forever. Because even if death slays all, life will return anew.  

In ASOIAF, the Coming of the Andals which marked the downfall of the Old Gods (Fertility Worship)* in so much of Westeros could represent what occurred in our own world. The collapse of the Bronze Age and the downfall of the Fertility Goddess. 

 

It ain't over until the fat lady sings

The triumph of the God of Death is not complete. One thing I foresee which could tip the scales back in favor of the Goddess, ironically, might be (of all things) an impending ice age. 

Our own planet is prone to them (over thousands of years), as is Planetos. Anything could trigger it... the collapse of the Polar Vortex... A change in the oceanic currents...

Our world (and Planetos), which is so dependent on iron and steel (we're still in the Iron Age, technically) might not fair well in an ice age. For you see, Iron shatters when it gets cold enough well before the temperature Bronze shatters. It is one of the few advantages bronze has over iron... This will bring about another apocalypse, an"Iron Age Apocalypse"... ushering in a second "Bronze Age". 

The ensuing collapse will tear apart the world down to the core, not even the patriarchal family structure with men at the center of the family and thus society (so prevalent in Westeros) will survive. 

So as the cold returns, so too with The Great Goddess***: The Giver-of-Life, Queen-of-Love-and-Beauty, The Huntress, Protector of Cities and, countless other names all of which she reserves for herself. Life will continue... on her terms.  

 

Fin.

 

_______________________________________________________

*Interestingly, Islam uses the symbol of the Cresent Moon... A mother goddess symbol. 

**Is the Fertility worshipping nature of the Old Gods/Weirwood worship hidden by its location? The North is cold and inhospitable place... But what would it be like without the Weirwood/Fertility worship?

***Women are the only ones who can re-start civilization after a collapse by re-kindling the family, which they will do in their own image. 

[Mourning Star]

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

The Great Goddess

Fertility deities play a big role in ASOIAF. 

I like the themes here that you are highlighting, although I disagree with the conclusion that you draw.

I think one of the most common mistakes to make when reading ASoIaF is to come away with the conclusion that the world is an eternal two sided conflict like Melisandre describes.

"The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war."
"The war?" asked Davos.
"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. "So tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the shining light of R'hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?" She reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather.
"My heart," Davos said slowly, "is full of doubts."
Melisandre sighed. "Ahhhh, Davos. The good knight is honest to the last, even in his day of darkness.

I do not think the truth is plain to behold. I think the first step to wisdom is doubt.

It seems to me to be a mistake to simplify life into black and white, good and evil, or to view everything through the lens of it being a war.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

Garth the Green is a Fertility deity. From him springs many of the great houses of Westeros that exist today. It's puzzling that Garth is Male, considering the Fertility deities of the past have been female. But we, like time, must move on.

Garth seems a lot like the horned god Cernunnos.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

It's a big deal

If GRRM has included Fertility Goddesses in ASOIAF that were historically significant in our real world... did he also include her counterpart... the god who usurped her and took her place at the start of the Iron Age (which still continues today)?

This seems to be a gross oversimplification of real world mythology. It is one interesting line of thought, but I don't think it's anything like the whole picture.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

The counterpart and rival to the Great Goddess (Fertility, abundance, walled cities, agriculture, female independence and sexuality) is the God of Death. A Sky God. He is depicted as male. He is often associated with storms. In our world, he originated among the nomadic horse warriors of the steppe lands on the fringe of Fertility worshipping civilization. 

Again, this seems like a bold and broad claim.

Zeus, a sky god, and father of the greek pantheon was notably fertile for instance. There was also his brother, the god of death, who was not the head of the pantheon.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

The God of Death

When the Fertility Goddess was torn down from her place at the center of all things, she did not merely disappear. She was transformed. 

Most commonly she was "demoted". Instead of being defined as "a mother", her place in the pantheon of gods was altered. She instead became "a daughter" and the Gods that supplanted her became chief as "a father" to her the goddess. Elsewhere, he married the Fertility Goddess making her "a wife", tying her to the husband and subordinating her to him (theologically). In this way, the Sky God (God of Death) sought to establish supremacy over the Fertility Goddess (and her worshipers).

Gaia was the mother of Zeus.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

In our world, the Abrahamic religions are death god worshippers. The god of Moses is a destroyer of worlds. A cruel and terrible god. The Christians take this one step further. Their God Jesus, dies on the cross. His birth is celebrated in winter (associated with death) and his death took place in the spring (associating new life with his death). Interestingly, Jesus' mother is a virgin. Thus, it is not her fertility and womanhood that is revered and worshipped but her virginity. Though she is a woman, she is another avatar of the death god but in woman form.  I can't tell you anything about Islam*. So we're moving on.

I enjoy the line of thinking but it's hardly a complete picture. "Be fruitful and multiply"

Also, a virgin birth is not unique to Abrahamic religions, but evident in older traditions.

We also see this reference about Garth:

Garth Greenhand brought the gift of fertility with him. Nor was it only the earth that he made fecund, for the legends tell us that he could make barren women fruitful with a touch—even crones whose moon blood no longer flowed. Maidens ripened in his presence, mothers brought forth twins or even triplets when he blessed them, young girls flowered at his smile. Lords and common men alike offered up their virgin daughters to him wherever he went, that their crops might ripen and their trees grow heavy with fruit. There was never a maid that he deflowered who did not deliver a strong son or fair daughter nine moons later, or so the stories say.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

Thus we can see that in the faith of the Seven, the Father is a God of Death (like the Father figure Gods in our world). As is the Warrior (who kills). The Smith is also coded as male, and could make machines of war which would also make him a death god. The Stranger, is a death god on its face, and openly called a death god in ASOIAF. It would seem that in ASOIAF, as well as our own world, there was a climactic clash between A Fertility Goddess and the God of Death.

I agree that the Stranger is an aspect of death, but not the Father.

Remember that with the Seven, these are seven aspects of one god, they do not war against each other, they are one god.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

We have still more evidence of the God of Death worship. The Iron Islands worships two gods; The Drowned God and the Storm God. These gods are one, the God of Death.

A bold claim, and an interesting idea, but I just don't see evidence for it.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

The Storm God is a Sky God, associated with storms which is similar to our own world. The Drowned God is dead, as befitting a God of Death. Indeed, Iron Island houses like the Greyjoys are the God of Death's champions. They proudly herald his coming with words that evoke death itself; "We do not sow". I find it fitting that the Iron Islands are indeed "Iron", which I associated with men, the Iron Age, and the fall of the Bronze Age Goddess worship. What is dead may never die.

"... but rises again, harder and stronger"

Life is part of a cycle that involves death, I don't think they are just opposites, they are parts of a whole.

All men must die.

Only life may pay for death.

I'm not convinced gods and goddesses actually exist in ASoIaF, but they are meaningful for what they represent regardless.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

The Facelessmen also worship a death god. The Many-Faced-God. They play no small part in our story.

"Only death may pay for life"

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

 The fact that Westeros and elsewhere (Minus the North and Iron Islands) worships these Gods indicates the following;

-The Fertility Goddess once reigned supreme in Westeros (at least where the Faith of the Seven exist)

-She was conquered by the God of Death, A Sky God, a Storm God, depicted as male, and associated with the nomadic horsemen of the steppe.

I don't know how you make this leap. Isn't the old fertility god male? Garth. Isn't the faith of the Seven the dominant religion? Where is the relationship to the nomadic horseman of the step found in the faith of the seven?

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

Symbols of the Eternal Battle

If all of this is indeed true. We would need further proof. Perhaps an allegory or some conflicts which mirror or echo this struggle between life and death itself. 
 

-Aegon I Targaryen's attack on Harren the Black at Harrenhal

Aegon attacking Harren the Black, to me, seems like an echo or a parallel to this conflict (Fertility Goddess vs. Death God). For one thing, Aegon attacked from above (like a Sky God would).  Secondly, Aegon attacked on dragonback, which to me is somewhat akin to horseriding and the Sky God is the God (originally) of the Nomadic Horsemen of the steppes. 

Thirdly, the name "Hoare" is an odd one. It has several meanings in the text, but most significantly, it's a homonym for "whore". In a book that constantly reminds the reader that certain words sound similar to another ("Reek it rhymes with meek", "Roose it Rhymes with noose"), the possibilities are intriguing. For if that is the author's intent, we can take this a step further. Prostitution is the oldest profession we know of today. It goes back to at least the Bronze age. And at that time, there existed something called "Sacred prostitution" (which GRRM mentions in ASOIAF, it takes place at the Temple of the Fertility Goddess in Lys). Sacred prostitution is required of all Fertility Goddess Worshippers, once in their lifetimes they must honor the goddess with their own bodies. They must go the temple and offer themselves and take whatever price is given to their first admirer. The money is then given to the temple of the Goddess...

You lost me at Harren Hoare being a symbol for a fertility goddess. I will say this, it's an odd detail that Harrenhall has a Godswood.

I thought you said the Ironmen religion represented death?

Hoare can also mean having grey or white hair.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

We know a character, an important character, associated with prostitution... and Harrenhal. Littlefinger...

We know there is a Godswood in Harrenhal. And Garth, the Fertility god of Westeros, is associated with Weirwoods. He planted them. 

Thus, we have in one corner a symbolic Sky God slaying a fertility (Godswood) worshipping "Hoares" (whores).

Seems like a stretch to me, again I don't think it fits with the gender patten you seemed to be trying to establish above.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

 -The Blood feud between Blackwood and Bracken

If the Godswood (referred to above) is associated with Fertility (Perhaps it is ironic that Blackwood women are not "blessed with great bossoms", to put it politely) the Blackwoods still worship this god. Indeed, they keep the Weirwood on their Sigil and are its champion. 

Then perhaps, might we say that the Brackens, associating themselves with horses and disassociating themselves from both the Blackwoods and the Weirwoods (they converted to the Faith of the Seven), worship the god of death? 

And might we also say that this battle, this struggle, which will never end (can never end) represents the struggle between the Goddess and the God of Death? It should be noted that the Blackwoods were on the losing side of the War of the Five Kings, like the Goddess herself and the Brackens changed to the winning side (much like the God of Death prevailed in our history). 

If this feud has the greater meaning I assign to it, this battle can never end. Fertility worship is fundamentally opposed to the God of death. Nor can one side triumph over the other, they are locked in eternal battle forever. Because even if death slays all, life will return anew.  

I think the moral here is that the sides here are artificial constructs and they are really the same people fighting themselves at this point.

 "So many years, so many wars, so many kings … you'd think someone would have made a peace."
"Someone did, my lord. Many someones. We've had a hundred peaces with the Brackens, many sealed with marriages. There's Blackwood blood in every Bracken, and Bracken blood in every Blackwood. The Old King's Peace lasted half a century. But then some fresh quarrel broke out, and the old wounds opened and began to bleed again. That's how it always happens, my father says. So long as men remember the wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last. So we go on century after century, with us hating the Brackens and them hating us. My father says there will never be an end to it."
"There could be."
"How, my lord? The old wounds never heal, my father says."
"My father had a saying too. Never wound a foe when you can kill him. Dead men don't claim vengeance."
"Their sons do," said Hoster, apologetically.
"Not if you kill the sons as well. Ask the Casterlys about that if you doubt me. Ask Lord and Lady Tarbeck, or the Reynes of Castamere. Ask the Prince of Dragonstone." For an instant, the deep red clouds that crowned the western hills reminded him of Rhaegar's children, all wrapped up in crimson cloaks.

I think the reader is supposed to be able to recognize that extinguishing the line of your foe is not a "good" solution. The murder of children for the actions of their forebearers is wrong.

I'm of the opinion that the solution is forgiveness, not vengeance.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

In ASOIAF, the Coming of the Andals which marked the downfall of the Old Gods (Fertility Worship)* in so much of Westeros could represent what occurred in our own world. The collapse of the Bronze Age and the downfall of the Fertility Goddess.

It seems to me to be something like a parallel for the Roman conquest of Britain.

2 hours ago, Tradecraft said:

It ain't over until the fat lady sings

The triumph of the God of Death is not complete. One thing I foresee which could tip the scales back in favor of the Goddess, ironically, might be (of all things) an impending ice age. 

Our own planet is prone to them (over thousands of years), as is Planetos. Anything could trigger it... the collapse of the Polar Vortex... A change in the oceanic currents...

Our world (and Planetos), which is so dependent on iron and steel (we're still in the Iron Age, technically) might not fair well in an ice age. For you see, Iron shatters when it gets cold enough well before the temperature Bronze shatters. It is one of the few advantages bronze has over iron... This will bring about another apocalypse, an"Iron Age Apocalypse"... ushering in a second "Bronze Age". 

The ensuing collapse will tear apart the world down to the core, not even the patriarchal family structure with men at the center of the family and thus society (so prevalent in Westeros) will survive. 

So as the cold returns, so too with The Great Goddess***: The Giver-of-Life, Queen-of-Love-and-Beauty, The Huntress, Protector of Cities and, countless other names all of which she reserves for herself. Life will continue... on her terms.  

I don't think an apocalypse is a "good" solution.

"Up and down," Meera would sigh sometimes as they walked, "then down and up. Then up and down again. I hate these stupid mountains of yours, Prince Bran."
"Yesterday you said you loved them."
"Oh, I do. My lord father told me about mountains, but I never saw one till now. I love them more than I can say."
Bran made a face at her. "But you just said you hated them."
"Why can't it be both?" Meera reached up to pinch his nose.
"Because they're different," he insisted. "Like night and day, or ice and fire."
"If ice can burn," said Jojen in his solemn voice, "then love and hate can mate. Mountain or marsh, it makes no matter. The land is one."

Again, I think the answer is forgiveness not vengeance.

At it's core, I think the moral here about righting old wrongs is about making peace not war.

"To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater," they said together. "Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you."
"I swear it by earth and water," said the boy in green.
"I swear it by bronze and iron," his sister said.
"We swear it by ice and fire," they finished together.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mourning Star

[Tradecraft]

9 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

I like the themes here that you are highlighting, although I disagree with the conclusion that you draw.

I think one of the most common mistakes to make when reading ASoIaF is to come away with the conclusion that the world is an eternal two sided conflict like Melisandre describes.

"The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war."
"The war?" asked Davos.
"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. "So tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the shining light of R'hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?" She reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather.
"My heart," Davos said slowly, "is full of doubts."
Melisandre sighed. "Ahhhh, Davos. The good knight is honest to the last, even in his day of darkness.

I do not think the truth is plain to behold. I think the first step to wisdom is doubt.

It seems to me to be a mistake to simplify life into black and white, good and evil, or to view everything through the lens of it being a war.

 

I agree with you that it shouldn't be black and white. 
 

However, I do see these two forces in conflict. One usually dominating the other. 

Even though there should be balance. 

[Loose Bolt]

Could mother of Jesus be some kind mythological incarnation of that ancient fertility goddess? After all She seems to be very popular. For instance EU uses Her symbol as national symbol.

[Craving Peaches]

2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Could mother of Jesus be some kind mythological incarnation of that ancient fertility goddess?

Mary? I don't think so, because the whole point is that she's a virgin, but then again, I sometimes think a reason she could be so popular is that she is filling the 'role' of a fertility goddess.

[SaffronLady]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:56 PM, Tradecraft said:

A Sky God. He is depicted as male. He is often associated with storms. In our world, he originated among the nomadic horse warriors of the steppe lands on the fringe of Fertility worshipping civilization. 

What is this, and is this even a scholarly opinion?

[Craving Peaches]

7 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

What is this, and is this even a scholarly opinion?

The Proto-Indo-Europeans and the Mongols both had/have a sky god, but I don't know if that's what Tradecraft is referring to.