Comparing the Seven Kingdoms to Real Countries

[Alden Rothack]

The North is Scotland except for Skagos which is Norway

the Iron Islands are the Kingdom of Orkney and the Isles

the Reach is France except for the Arbour which is Venice

Riverlands is Germany

The Vale is Switzerland and Belgium

Stormlands is Wales

Dorne is Spain and Portugal

Westerlands is England

 

[Craving Peaches]

8 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

The North is Scotland except for Skagos which is Norway

Skagos could also be one of the Isles, which were formerly ruled by/vassals of Norway.

8 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Riverlands is Germany

Can't wait until the Riverlands are finally unified and then everyone else is in trouble.

[KingStoneheart]

As a Scottish person, Beyond the Wall is unfortunately Scotland

I would say the Iron Islands are more likely Norway as they are really just Vikings.

I agree that the Reach is France

Dorne is Spain/Portugal

[Alden Rothack]

6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Skagos could also be one of the Isles, which were formerly ruled by/vassals of Norway.

Can't wait until the Riverlands are finally unified and then everyone else is in trouble.

the Isles are tiny

1 minute ago, KingStoneheart said:

As a Scottish person, Beyond the Wall is unfortunately Scotland

I would say the Iron Islands are more likely Norway as they are really just Vikings.

I agree that the Reach is France

Dorne is Spain/Portugal

Except that the Ironborn are First Men like the North and live on Islands, which is much closer to a counterpart of Orkney and the Isles than a large far northern country like Norway.

Its not as though the Vikings were the only reiver culture or even did it for the longest.

[Craving Peaches]

7 minutes ago, KingStoneheart said:

As a Scottish person, Beyond the Wall is unfortunately Scotland

Come on, Scotland does have one actual city (Edinburgh ), beyond the Wall has zero.

[Craving Peaches]

Also whole of Westeros is just inverted GB and Ireland stacked on top of each other.

Game of Thrones’ Westeros Is Really Just Britain & An Inverted Ireland – Brilliant Maps

[Alden Rothack]

9 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Come on, Scotland does have one actual city (Edinburgh ), beyond the Wall has zero.

Yeah plus Beyond the Wall is Clearly Canada not Scotland

 

9 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Also whole of Westeros is just inverted GB and Ireland stacked on top of each other.

Game of Thrones’ Westeros Is Really Just Britain & An Inverted Ireland – Brilliant Maps

In General Shape yeah but thats like saying a lake and a sea are similar because theres water in them. Westeros is so big that the error margin on the map would be bigger than the real UK

[House Cambodia]

13 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Come on, Scotland does have one actual city (Edinburgh ), beyond the Wall has zero.

You could have the Lowlands as The North and the highlands as Beyond the Wall - after all, Inverness, the only Highland city is located where Hardhome is 

[Daeron the Daring]

The Vale often felt to me like Bohemia (today's Czechia): A moderately sized country, isolated from the rest of the continent with a mountain range, very densely populated for its size, surprisingly a lot of cultivable land (the Vale is supposed to be a breadbasket if we take after George).

The Riverlands, and to some extent the Crownlands too kinda feel like the Benelux region+Ruhr-Rhineland.

The Westerlands is a lot like Austria, Hungary, or Burgundy with its supposed high level of urbanization and gold mines and mountain ranges. Maybe Eastern Roman Empire.

Interestingly enough, the Narrow sea is much more like the North Sea/Baltic Sea, and the Sunset sea screams off Mediterranean vibes.

[JoyfulJoy]

21 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Except that the Ironborn are First Men like the North and live on Islands, which is much closer to a counterpart of Orkney and the Isles than a large far northern country like Norway.

Its not as though the Vikings were the only reiver culture or even did it for the longest.

GRRM said he likes to take inspiration from multiple, them being first man doesn't mean that their counterpart also has to be from Scotland.

Also I moreso think Dorne is Moorish Spain/Palestine, hence the multi ethnic group.

[Daeron the Daring]

37 minutes ago, JoyfulJoy said:

GRRM said he likes to take inspiration from multiple, them being first man doesn't mean that their counterpart also has to be from Scotland.

Also I moreso think Dorne is Moorish Spain/Palestine, hence the multi ethnic group.

It always bothered me if dornish architecture could be inspired by byzantine one in some part as well.

[Alester Florent]

I always assumed that Westeros was essentially Britain with a few tweaks.

The North is... well, the North. And lowland Scotland. (The Wall, here, would be the Antonine Wall, rather than Hadrian's). White Harbour is (Kingston-upon)-Hull. The Neck is the Fenlands, here shifted westwards.

The Riverlands are the Midlands. Harrenhal is Coventry.

The Westerlands are geographically Welsh, but actually unified and potent in a way that Wales never really was.

The Stormlands are Cornwall and west Devon. Storm's End is Tintagel.

The Vale is a blend of East Anglia and Wales, both culturally and geographically. Gulltown is Norwich.

The Crownlands are Middlesex and northern Kent.

The Reach is the rest of the south. Highgarden could be fairly compared to many of the old medieval cities, but particularly Winchester and Oxford, I think. Bath could also be mentioned, perhaps.

The Iron Islands are Shetland, Orkney, etc.

There are also blends, with stuff imported from abroad, or just pure fantasy invention. Riverrun looks more like the cité of Paris than anything I can think of in Britain. Casterly Rock may draw some inspiration from Edinburgh but its implementation is pure fantasy. The Eyrie looks something like Neuchswanstein, but plonked on top of a mountain. The hot springs that make Winterfell pleasant are absent from any of the cities and towns that might otherwise compare to it. Dragonstone is an essentially fantasy creation.

Dorne is a funny one because I can't remember at what point in the story (or likewise in GRRM's imagination) it really started to get developed. Nobody visits Dorne (except Ned briefly in a flashback) for the first two books and we don't get a Dornish character on the page until the third. The whole business with the Marches and its retaining a kind of nominal stature that the other kingdoms don't have gives it the feel of a Wales or Scotland, and to be honest I could also see a kind of Celtic swagger to Oberyn. But the more we see of Dorne the more Mediterranean it starts to look. I don't think it's obviously Iberian, though: if anything it struck me as more north African, maybe Sicilian, or even Anatolian, in some ways. It's an anomaly next to the rest of the kingdoms which all feel, with the arguable exception of the Reach, very northern European.

Oldtown is another anomaly: in English terms it kind of blends elements of Winchester, Oxford, Canterbury and Southampton/Portsmouth, but it's also huge in a way that no (non-London) city in England became before the modern era.

But GRRM is allowed some invention: this isn't a history novel, after all.

[Alden Rothack]

On 3/14/2024 at 6:08 PM, JoyfulJoy said:

GRRM said he likes to take inspiration from multiple, them being first man doesn't mean that their counterpart also has to be from Scotland.

Also I moreso think Dorne is Moorish Spain/Palestine, hence the multi ethnic group.

Orkney not Scotland, the Isles were strongly nordic influenced though they were a strong raider culture even before that

 

On 3/14/2024 at 6:50 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

It always bothered me if dornish architecture could be inspired by byzantine one in some part as well.

Too far south for that given the sheer size of westeros

[Alden Rothack]

On 3/14/2024 at 10:52 PM, Alester Florent said:

I always assumed that Westeros was essentially Britain with a few tweaks.

The North is... well, the North. And lowland Scotland. (The Wall, here, would be the Antonine Wall, rather than Hadrian's). White Harbour is (Kingston-upon)-Hull. The Neck is the Fenlands, here shifted westwards.

The Riverlands are the Midlands. Harrenhal is Coventry.

The Westerlands are geographically Welsh, but actually unified and potent in a way that Wales never really was.

The Stormlands are Cornwall and west Devon. Storm's End is Tintagel.

The Vale is a blend of East Anglia and Wales, both culturally and geographically. Gulltown is Norwich.

The Crownlands are Middlesex and northern Kent.

The Reach is the rest of the south. Highgarden could be fairly compared to many of the old medieval cities, but particularly Winchester and Oxford, I think. Bath could also be mentioned, perhaps.

The Iron Islands are Shetland, Orkney, etc.

There are also blends, with stuff imported from abroad, or just pure fantasy invention. Riverrun looks more like the cité of Paris than anything I can think of in Britain. Casterly Rock may draw some inspiration from Edinburgh but its implementation is pure fantasy. The Eyrie looks something like Neuchswanstein, but plonked on top of a mountain. The hot springs that make Winterfell pleasant are absent from any of the cities and towns that might otherwise compare to it. Dragonstone is an essentially fantasy creation.

Dorne is a funny one because I can't remember at what point in the story (or likewise in GRRM's imagination) it really started to get developed. Nobody visits Dorne (except Ned briefly in a flashback) for the first two books and we don't get a Dornish character on the page until the third. The whole business with the Marches and its retaining a kind of nominal stature that the other kingdoms don't have gives it the feel of a Wales or Scotland, and to be honest I could also see a kind of Celtic swagger to Oberyn. But the more we see of Dorne the more Mediterranean it starts to look. I don't think it's obviously Iberian, though: if anything it struck me as more north African, maybe Sicilian, or even Anatolian, in some ways. It's an anomaly next to the rest of the kingdoms which all feel, with the arguable exception of the Reach, very northern European.

Oldtown is another anomaly: in English terms it kind of blends elements of Winchester, Oxford, Canterbury and Southampton/Portsmouth, but it's also huge in a way that no (non-London) city in England became before the modern era.

But GRRM is allowed some invention: this isn't a history novel, after all.

Dorne exists in large part because westeros unlike Britain is big enough to extend into trully hot parts of the world

[Daeron the Daring]

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

Too far south for that given the sheer size of westeros

The influence of byzantine architecture extended to North Africa, the Levant, and Asia Minor. (As these places were ruled by the ERE for centuries, and the RE beforehand) Especially the Levant and Asia Minor are a perfect parallel with Dorne when it comes to geography and the climate.

[Alden Rothack]

8 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The influence of byzantine architecture extended to North Africa, the Levant, and Asia Minor. (As these places were ruled by the ERE for centuries, and the RE beforehand) Especially the Levant and Asia Minor are a perfect parallel with Dorne when it comes to geography and the climate.

Yes, there is that

[JoyfulJoy]

On 3/17/2024 at 6:53 AM, Alden Rothack said:

Orkney not Scotland, the Isles were strongly nordic influenced though they were a strong raider culture even before that

I don't mean the physical part of Scotland, " is an archipelago in the Northern Isles of Scotland"

[Alden Rothack]

20 hours ago, JoyfulJoy said:

I don't mean the physical part of Scotland, " is an archipelago in the Northern Isles of Scotland"

I know where it is, during the middle ages it was strongly nordic and actually part of the Anglo-saxon Seven kingdoms for a long time before the Scots took it over only to trade it back to Norway.

[House Cambodia]

13 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

I know where it is, during the middle ages it was strongly nordic and actually part of the Anglo-saxon Seven kingdoms for a long time before the Scots took it over only to trade it back to Norway.

Today, whilst Orcadians have to acknowledge Westminster as their ultimate constitutional overlord, it barely even bends the knee to Hollyrood. Orkney consistently returns Liberal Democrat MPs/MSPs to cock a snook at both England and Scotland!

I should add that despite the popular image of 'Vikings' (the name being a job description - pirate - not an ethnic label), there is no literary or archaeological evidence of the Orcadian Norse ever being reivers.

Edited March 19 by House Cambodia

[Alden Rothack]

4 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Today, whilst Orcadians have to acknowledge Westminster as their ultimate constitutional overlord, it barely even bends the knee to Hollyrood. Orkney consistently returns Liberal Democrat MPs/MSPs to cock a snook at both England and Scotland!

I should add that despite the popular image of 'Vikings' (the name being a job description - pirate - not an ethnic label), there is no literary or archaeological evidence of the Orcadian Norse ever being reivers.

They would be the only ones if that were true.

reiving was very popular due to being very profitable, I find it very difficult to imagine they did not take particularly as they were in conflict with their neighbours on a number of occasions.