Top Tier Fighters.

[Oorag]

Limited to the characters alive by AGOT:

Top Tier

Syrio Forrel - Way too skilled, though his style is not particularly suited for Westeros.

Robert Baratheon - A war hero who, like Jaime, seems to lead by throwing himself into the fray and fighting it out.

Gregor Clegane - Ungodly strength and practical, if shallow, reflexes make him nearly unbeatable in a battlefield.

Sandor Clegane - Strength, speed, savagery, and intelligence.

Jaime Lannister - Almost certainly the toughest knight in AGOT

Loras Tyrell - The Jaime of jousting, and almost as good a fighter.

Garlan Tyrell - Apparently better than his brother, but not such a glory whore.

Quorin - He fights mostly raiders, but Jon's description and his reputation suggest that he's one of the best men in the north.

Areo Hotah - A warrior monk and personal bodyguard of the third or fourth most powerful lord in Westeros. That's a good pedigree, despite his age.

Khal Drogo - In his own world, he's the best of the best, and would still probably be a match for any knight with his mounted archer tactics.

Second Tier:

Bronn - At the top of the second tier. Bronn's a hard man, and better than almost all other knights, but I don't think he's quite "uber."

Strong Belwas - Extremely skilled and surprisingly agile. I don't think his style is suited for warfare, though he handles a cavalry charge well enough.

Barristan Selmy - Still more than a match for men half his age, but he's just too old to be tip top tier.

Oberyn Martell - While he's cunning and fierce, I still never got the impression that Oberyn was the best of the best. He can exploit a weakness, but put him against Jaime or Sandor and I think he'd fall short.

Thoros - An accomplished melee fighter against some of the best in the realm.

Andrik the Unsmiling - He's the best ironman, but the Iron Islands are a small place, and he's primarily a raider.

Victarion Greyjoy - Seems to be fast and powerful, though I suspect that most of his time is spent slaughtering unarmored sailors.

Brienne of Tarth - AFFC really put doubts to her ability for me. She seems to be really good, but Renly's tourney seems to be something of a fluke, and she would be completely outmatched by an AGOT Jaime by her own admission.

Third Tier:

Lothor Brune - A very capable man, though it doesn't seem like he's quite at the top.

Balon Swann - Also seems to be a very capable knight, though not amazing.

Beric - Skilled and smooth suring Sandor's fight, so he's definitely above average, but never did anything to suggest he's anything more.

Greatjon, Smalljon, Strongboar - All very big men, but none seem to be particularly skilled fighters. Strength alone makes them a force to be reckoned with, however.

Bronze Yohn Royce - This guy used to be pretty bad-ass, but I suspect that age has slowed him down out of the top ranks by AFFC. He didn't do that well at the Hand's Tourney, as I recall.

Brynden Tully - Probably used to be first or second tier in his prime, but age must have slowed him down.

Pointed Exclusions:

Jon - While he seems to have talent and the will to learn, nothing's suggested he's better than even an average knight.

Shagga, Timmett: Thugs and raiders. I have doubts they'd stand before even an average knight.

[Cicero's Wart]

Oorag, Good list!

I might move Brienne down to third tier and maybe move Oberyn up...but no big deal.

Your point about Syrio is well taken. He might be first tier in certain types of combat but not in others...like, say, in a melee.

[Perin Stone]

Robert Baratheon - A war hero who, like Jaime, seems to lead by throwing himself into the fray and fighting it out.

Barristan Selmy - Still more than a match for men half his age, but he's just too old to be tip top tier.

Good list, but if you're going to leave Selmy off for his age, I think you need to leave Robert off. 15 years ago he rocked. Now (at start of series) he's just a fat drunk.

[sologdin]

pshaw.

hot pie pwns your wussy betiered "warriors."

[Eddard Stark]

I think Drogo should be first tier...remember, Oberyn also fought with 'almost' no armor. And he whooped gregor completely, if not for underestimating gregors tenacitya t the very end. (Even then the viper did win; gregor was in pain for weeks before finally dying, after which qyburn brought his corpse back to unlife and srated melding him with women, or whatever he was doing)

ALso, is Andrik the weilder of Nightfall, who defeated 7 knights in single combat? IF so then he is first tier definately.

Yoren should be there, probably second tier. Qhoroin and Bronn should be frst tier. Randyll Tarly should be at least second tier.

Defeating 7 knights nobody has heard of isn't impressive.

Moreover, there is no evidence that Qhorin, Bronn or Randyll Tarly are good fighters. We know Qhorin was good for Night's Watch, which is basically a penal colony. We know Bronn is good at killing at surviving, but there is no evidence to support that he could kill a second tier fighter. We have never seen Randyll Tarly fight...period, so why speculate?

DK

[ThatWierdGuy]

Andhaira, In addition to what Eddard Stark said, I don't think Dornish men and Dothraki are a fair comparison. Dornes such as The Viper have a fair amount of experience fighting against the Tyrells, so they are used to fighting with tactics that could be used against armored knights, not to mention they have knights of their own. The Viper thought the spear was the best weapon to go against Gregor's reach and strength. On the other hand, The Dothraki at the moment have no experience fighting knights, plus I didn't see evidence that they use spears or, judging by their skirmish with the Unsullied, are as tactically capable as their historical counterparts (Mongols/Huns).

Someone else commented by saying Loras' is simply good at a lance and isn't that great of a fighter. Shouldn't fighting ability also be compared to lance ability? Isn't the lance the knight's primary weapon?

[Andhaira]

Defeating 7 knights nobody has heard of isn't impressive.

Moreover, there is no evidence that Qhorin, Bronn or Randyll Tarly are good fighters. We know Qhorin was good for Night's Watch, which is basically a penal colony. We know Bronn is good at killing at surviving, but there is no evidence to support that he could kill a second tier fighter. We have never seen Randyll Tarly fight...period, so why speculate?

DK

Bronn survived the road to the eyrie based on his skill alone. While the other 'fighters' with him sustained woundsand/or died, he got off without a wound, even though he was always in the thick of the fighting. Sandor Clegane on the other hand, sustained life threatning wounds whilst fighting only 3 of gregors men, even though he had arya helping him.

Randyll tarly is always in Mace's van; he is also one of the very few who actually defeated Robert Baratheon in a skirmish during roberts rebellion. Also, the way he rationalized Briennes defeat of the three losers from the mummers crew (...that is the property of valyrian steel! Its light!... or something lke that) shows that Randyll is intimately familiar with using valyrian steel in combat.

I'm not saying he's incredible in fighting or anything (yet), but it appears he is a very good combatant as well as a commander.

Qhorin is well respected among the rangers. They may be a penal colony, but from their chapters its obvious they are trained very well. The rangers are trained even more rigorously. Alos, the watch contains people like royce, ben stark, mormornt, etc etc. Yoren was not a bad fighter as well; he killed 4 lannister men in combat at least.

As for Drogo, while he may not have exp fighting knights, knights wont have exp fighting dothraki as well. So that makes them about even in that regards. Drogo had a kahalsar of 40,000 fighing men, and at least that much in 'retainers'. He kept/formed them all from his willpower and prowess as a warrior. Also, Drogo has NEVER cut his braid, meaning he has never lost a battle in a lifetime of constant warfare. Don't tell me that counts for nothing.

As for defeating seven knights, I think thats pretty impressive. Maybe I am easier to please though.

[Oldtown Cider]

I wouldn't put him on the top tier, but I would think that Lyn Corbray might get a mention for tier 2 or 3. He earned the Lady Forlorn over his brother due to his battlefield exploits, and is reknowned as a dangerous man. He also killed a kingsguard back when they were tough, even if it was after he had been exhausted by battle.

Daario might deserve a place as well, but I haven't seen enough of him yet, maybe after ADWD we'll know more about him.

It will be interesting to see where Qyburns monstrosity ends up in the future.

[Oorag]

Good list, but if you're going to leave Selmy off for his age, I think you need to leave Robert off. 15 years ago he rocked. Now (at start of series) he's just a fat drunk.

Heh, yeah, that's true. He should be off my list.

I might move Brienne down to third tier and maybe move Oberyn up...but no big deal.

I hesitated on doing just that.

Also, Andrik was not the guy to defeated the 7 knights in single combat to win the castle. I think it was "The Knight," who had stood to inheret The Reader's lordship.

[Yougottawanna]

"Bronn survived the road to the eyrie based on his skill alone. While the other 'fighters' with him sustained woundsand/or died, he got off without a wound, even though he was always in the thick of the fighting. Sandor Clegane on the other hand, sustained life threatning wounds whilst fighting only 3 of gregors men, even though he had arya helping him. "

Bronn had all those other men helping him as well through the mountains. And no matter how good you are, three on one is hard for anyone, plus the Hound was drunk during that fight.

When evaluating fighters, I think its best to go off of how well they compete against other good fighters. Someone like Bronn may be good, but we've never seen him fight another knight except for that champion he fought at the Eyrie, who wasn't very good. Jaime, by contrast, has a reputation for success at tourneys, against the best in Westeros, and on the battelfield.

My top tier (this includes lance skill by the way):

Righthanded Jaime - Accomplished tourney knight, fearless and athletic, good battlefield resume as well

The Hound - Good with a lance, remember he made it to the final four of the biggest tournament the series has seen so far, plus has never lost a fight despite going up against Beric and Gregor.

Unpoisoned Gregor - Freaking huge, and an experienced fighter as well. Doesn't tire very easily despite his size.

Loras Tyrell - Probably the best with a lance in the series. You may not like him, but he's good.

Notable exceptions: Garlan Tyrell (we only know him by reputation and a short training glimpse), Arthur Dayne (I didn't bother trying to rate dead people), Barristan Selmy (too old now IMO), Brienne (she's good but nothing indicates she's a real first-tier fighter).

[Moshe Goldberg Rubinshteyn]

I doubt that Victarion is such a good fighter. He can cut down unarmored sailors quite well, but when he came on the only (lightly armored) knight on the boat he sustains some serious injuries (he has to catch the sword with his hand). The reason he survives at all is that he wears full armor (which is quite stupid on a boat). I would imagine that in a land battle he wouldn't stand a chance against properly armored household knight. Not even third tier IMHO.

[Yougottawanna]

In defense of Victarian, I think catching the sword with the gauntleted hand is an actual move, not just a desperation ploy. And he beats that guy pretty decisively.

And Victarian is well aware of the risks of wearing plate on a boat, GRRM mentions the pros and cons.

But I don't think he's a first tier fighter either, though he is good.

[Eddard Stark]

Bronn survived the road to the eyrie based on his skill alone. While the other 'fighters' with him sustained woundsand/or died, he got off without a wound, even though he was always in the thick of the fighting. Sandor Clegane on the other hand, sustained life threatning wounds whilst fighting only 3 of gregors men, even though he had arya helping him.

He was drunk. Last time I checked, fighting drunk was rather tough; sort of like driving well. To boot, he had a shitty sword he wasn't familiar with. He was effectively fighting against two anyway (Polliver and the Tickler).

Randyll tarly is always in Mace's van; he is also one of the very few who actually defeated Robert Baratheon in a skirmish during roberts rebellion. Also, the way he rationalized Briennes defeat of the three losers from the mummers crew (...that is the property of valyrian steel! Its light!... or something lke that) shows that Randyll is intimately familiar with using valyrian steel in combat.

I'm not saying he's incredible in fighting or anything (yet), but it appears he is a very good combatant as well as a commander.

I still don't see any evidence. He was in the van...that doesn't make him special. That simply means that Mace Tyrell is smart enough to put a good commander in charge of one of the most important parts of his army. I don't doubt that Tarly is a reasonable fighter, but I have never heard him mentioned in the books as in the same class as Robert (before he was fat), Rhaegar, Barristan the Bold, Arthur Dayne, etc. Moreover, he has done nothing in the books to confirm that he is a good or even great fighter. Wow, he scares his own kid...well, everything including Gilly scares sam, so it's no big deal.

Qhorin is well respected among the rangers. They may be a penal colony, but from their chapters its obvious they are trained very well. The rangers are trained even more rigorously. Alos, the watch contains people like royce, ben stark, mormornt, etc etc. Yoren was not a bad fighter as well; he killed 4 lannister men in combat at least.

He killed 4 men at arms, he didn't kill four knights. Yoren was probably a reasonable fighter, but there's no reason to put him up on the list either. Until it can be discovered how good NW fighters are relative to the realm, there is no reason to assume that they are just as good as Loras Tyrell etc.

As for Drogo, while he may not have exp fighting knights, knights wont have exp fighting dothraki as well. So that makes them about even in that regards. Drogo had a kahalsar of 40,000 fighing men, and at least that much in 'retainers'. He kept/formed them all from his willpower and prowess as a warrior. Also, Drogo has NEVER cut his braid, meaning he has never lost a battle in a lifetime of constant warfare. Don't tell me that counts for nothing.

That counts for being a good general. Obviously Drogo was a very impressive fighter, but again, that is inference. There is no proof in the books. The other issue is, how do you compare him to the others? I rather doubt he would have survived an encounter with Arthur Dayne...

As for defeating seven knights, I think thats pretty impressive. Maybe I am easier to please though.

Do you know anything about the knights? Perhaps they were all 50 year old fat men... Until there's good evidence, I don't see any reason to assume that people are good fighters.

David

[Cynon]

ALso, is Andrik the weilder of Nightfall, who defeated 7 knights in single combat? IF so then he is first tier definately.

I don't think that was Andrik. That was one of the new Shield Lords who defeated seven knights one at a time. Seven unknowns. I can't remember the name at the moment, but it was in the Victarion chapter were he is at Eurons feast at Harlaw. A Drumm maybe?

[Gregor Clegane Has a Posse]

I'm discounting the dead and maimed from my list.

Top Tier

Gregor Clegane

Sandor Clegane

Barristan Selmy (old... but old men know ALL the dirty tricks)

Bronn Stokeworth (heh)

Victarion Greyjoy

Garlan Tyrell

Loras Tyrell

Strong Belwas (fat man with no armor save for a punch buckler the size of a pie plate beating a mounted opponent is a force to be reckoned with)

Second Tier

Lothor Brune (the apple eater!)

Jon Snow

Jorah Mormont

Balon Swann

Black Walder Frey

Greatjon Umber

Asha Greyjoy

Shagga son of Dolf

Brienne Tarth

A lot of the people on the second tier are there by repute. Some may even belong at the top tier, but since we haven't been able to accurately gauge their skill, I'm leaving them at the second until we learn more. I know some people like to put Brienne up higher, but I think she is lacking a little bit in the killer edge. Jon is getting better, but he still has a ways to go.

[Happy Ent]

Garlan Tyrell (we only know him by reputation and a short training glimpse)

Garlan was the greatest warrior at the Blackwater, disguised as Renly's Ghost.

[Arthur Dayne]

It's nice to know Ser Arthur Dayne, whom we never saw fight, only heard of his prowess, makes the top of most lists

But if you're going to go on reputation alone, and not excluding dead characters, don't forget Aemon the Dragonknight, and Ryam Redwyne. Both legendary figures in the King's Guard, right up there with Arthur Dayne.

Then again as Jaime once points out: All Kingsguard are formidable up until the Rebellion where the badass boys in White were slain, and the Kingsguard pretenders took up the white-cloak.

Pretty much went downhill after they allowed a Kingslayer in their midst.

[Bastion]

If your including dead people, how about Baelor Breakspear or the smiling Knight. King Maekor, Baelors brother was also pretty formidable.

Where would guys from Dunk & egg stories be on the list? Dunk,Aerion brightflame, Longinch, Bittersteel,Blackfyre,Bloodraven?

The last three especially.

Thanks

Bastion

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Don't dismiss Brenne for her sex, you forget she won the melee at Bitterbridge. With over 100 combatants including the some of the best in the south (except Dorne). Besides, read her phisical discription. I see her at 6'3" 215lbs. easy, she's bigger than most of the guys listed.

Yeah, Brienne is WAY up there. Probably in the top 5 of known, living fighters. That is if she's actually alive. Remember also that in the melee she was defeating two, sometimes three knights that were attacking her cooperatively and/or in succession. That shows strength, skill AND endurance. And afterwards, she humbled Loras 1v1, and I think could easily do it again, so putting her below him makes no sense whatsoever.

Also I don't think Jaime was weakened terribly when they fought. He'd been a prisoner, but he wasn't starved or anything. I think it was clear they were NEARLY evenly matched. I might put Jaime slightly above her simply because he is more experienced, etc. Not anymore of course, but...

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]