NaNoWriMo

[The Wolf Maid]

Still dead.

In any case, took a vacation leave today, hope will be able to write something. My work is killing meh.

[Bellis]

Just passed 30K. Trying to slow down, not wrap this story in less than 50K. My aim now is to finish the story by the end of the month, at some point getting to the 50K mark and getting validated (even if I end up editing out those parts).

December for writing and workshopping sounds great!

How do you interpret this excerpt, especially the last sentence?

In the morning, she called the local Alder police on her com. The line was busy. She looked up the number for the IL, but again, no one answered. She left her name and number. She went into the kitchen and made herself hot tea, watching the steam rise in the late autumn chill. Sipping her cup, Asyda went down the stairs, to the street. The eastern sun was coming over the horizon in the east. There was a plume of black smoke rising like a pillar in the west.

IL ~ CIA/MI5

[Nymeria87]

And do you deserve the shirt already?

NOW I do after having technically no time to write, but now I'm at 50,047 words (not done with Chapter 11 yet though) and it's 10pm so I got done in 2 weeks yay

I really wouldn't have thought it'd go that fast and that smoothly, there are a lot of edges and sections that scream EDIT ME! but I'll go on writing the book first before I edit a word

*dances the Nano victory dance*

I'll try to keep it up for the rest of the month because I really want to get on with this because it's flowing so awesomely, so maybe I'll have the first draft done by Christmas?

[Lady Blackfish]

Congrats Nym! You made it!

[Red Sun]

Congratulation, Nymeria ! Have your t-shirt!

I only came home 22.00 yesterday, and even coffee did not help at all to write more than 645 words. Despite the coffee, I went to bed 23.00 and fell asleep immediately. Brain drained.

[The Wolf Maid]

YOU GO Nymeria!

Now go and read Confessor.

[Nymeria87]

YOU GO Nymeria!

Now go and read Confessor.

hahaha, thanks and Hellfuckingno to Confessor. I'd rather be shot....

I will still heed the battlecry though BETTER THAN GOODKIND! and I know I am because I rock more than he does hahah

and thanks Lady Blackfish and Red Sun, keep going, I'm sure it'll be good in the end

But remember: Brian is with you (thanks Ebenstone for reminding me of the awesomeness )

That Novel your workin' on...

[Sword of the Evening]

Congrats! on the 50K.

Good Luck on reaching the 100K mark.

May your words flow like ale on New Year's Eve.

* * *

On another note, I'm thinking of changing my novel so that each chapter is a POV chapter similar to ASOIAF. This will be the first time I've tried to write chapters in this manner, so, I'm curious and would like to get some input from you guys. I basically have one question tho:

Why do you think Martin uses the POV characters he does and why does he choose not to use other POV's?

For example a lot of the POV's are chosen because the character will view a different part of the world or world's culture.

But some character's are not chosen although they seem like they would be major characters. I think all of the Stark's are used as POV characters except Rob and Rickon.

Rob probably because we can see alot of his scenes through Cat's eyes and Rickon because he is too young to have very many significant thoughts or insights into the world.

I know some characters were not chosen because it makes them more mysterious/evil...

But are these the only reasons he picked the characters he did, or are there other reasons I'm not considering?

Thanks for any insight you can provide, and I think my story idea is going to rock.

* * *

Oh, one more thing. If any of you are seriously considering getting work published you may want to check out

http://Ralan.com

It has information on book publishers, magazines, contests, and anthologies and includes things like submission guidlines and addresses. I plan on trying to get part of my novel published as a short story, I'll have to submit it before Dec. 15

So good luck to everyone--and keep those words comin'

[Red Sun]

Sorry, I forgot this.

How do you interpret this excerpt, especially the last sentence?

IL ~ CIA/MI5

It feels as if something bad is happening, but I might be wrong. The "plume of black smoke" in combination with "pillar" has a menacing note. Black smoke means that something is burning, unlike white smoke which is just hot water.

Edit: I like to have a continued work-shop, even though I can not share my writing, but it's just nice to know that other work on something as well.

[Muttering Bill]

I'm getting pretty worn out by Nano. If we want to push the westeros workshop out to January, I could certainly use the break. It would be a good time have time to edit the crap I'm working out now, and to start doing research for the next project.

But December is fine too. It's probably a good idea to keep the momentum going. So I'll leave to others to decide.

Why do you think Martin uses the POV characters he does and why does he choose not to use other POV's?

I'd always thought it had to do with their positioning, in relation to other characters. Like Sansa's PoV was to keep track of Joffrey and the Hound, and later Littlefinger. There was really no need for her but to show what's happening with other characters that he wanted to remain mysterious.

Jon was to show what was happening on the Wall, and he had to add Samwell when Jon went to explore beyond the Wall.

Catelyn to follow Rob and Renly's story-lines.

Eddard for showing the Roberts fate.

Theon was added to reveal events in the Iron Islands and Winterfell.

Davos to the purpose of keeping tabs on Stannis.

Yeah, some of them have important roles of their own. But Bran, Arya and Sansa? None of them have done much on their own.

Or it could be that the personalities of those characters were more vivid to him, and so easier to write about.

I'm just guessing. Only GRRM himself can really explain why.

[Red Sun]

Why do you think Martin uses the POV characters he does and why does he choose not to use other POV's?

Muttering Bill gave some interesting ideas.

I also think that there is more to the characters than just having someone to see the different parts of the world. I think that the POV characters also serve to show different outlooks on the society and different roles in that society. They are meant to create ambivalence by juxtaposition, reinforcing the idea that everyone is the hero of their own story and everyone can only see what reaches their eyes, but not beyond. Or they are meant to show different answers to one of the themes of the story: what is honor?

[Ser Greguh]

Why do you think Martin uses the POV characters he does and why does he choose not to use other POV's?

For example a lot of the POV's are chosen because the character will view a different part of the world or world's culture.

But some character's are not chosen although they seem like they would be major characters. I think all of the Stark's are used as POV characters except Rob and Rickon.

Rob probably because we can see alot of his scenes through Cat's eyes and Rickon because he is too young to have very many significant thoughts or insights into the world.

I know some characters were not chosen because it makes them more mysterious/evil...

But are these the only reasons he picked the characters he did, or are there other reasons I'm not considering?

Thanks for any insight you can provide, and I think my story idea is going to rock.

My thoughts on why GRRM chooses the POV's he does:

For the AGOT POV's, with the exception (of course) of Daenerys, he obviously wanted to give all of the POV's a start in Winterfell, probably so as to not overwhelm the reader; we've had introductions to many of the characters (Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, Ned, Cat) before their POV's and we're not taken too far out of place when their POV's are brought up.

On top of that, the choices seem made such that they offer a diverse set of viewpoints, both in terms of personalities and geography. Ned provides the political aspect of King's Landing (and is set up as the "hero" whose execution is supposed to shock), Sansa the society, Arya more the underbelly (particularly in her latter chapters) and for the travelogue she provides in later books. Bran holds down the fort in Winterfell, Catelyn and Tyrion introduce the Eyrie, only to be split into different sides of th escalating war (Martin obviously wanted to provide direct POV's for both the Green Fork and the Whispering Wood). And Jon obviously provides the Wall.

And one can easily see the motivations for adding in the ones he does in ACoK, ASoS, and AFfC. For example, in ASoS, Jon is with the wildlings, but we still want a sense of what's going on on the fist and the wall for the first half of the book, and so we get Samwell.

He also seems to, wherever possible, avoid telling the story from the POV of the primary movers and shakers. Thus instead of Stannis we get Davos; instead of Balon we get Theon; instead of Robb we get Catelyn. This serves a few different purposes. First, it keeps those characters as enigmas in the reader's minds. The story is better off for us not knowing what Stannis is thinking, whether or not he truly believes Melisandre's prophecies, whether or not he truly believes himself to be Azor Ahai reborn, etc. Second, it deliberately downplays the importance of the conflict between those kings. Whereas the primary movers and shakers in other areas - Jon on the Wall, Dany in the East - are given center stage. It's a deliberate device to suggest that those conflicts are the true ones, that their stories, more than the War of Five Kings, are really what the book is about. Thus it functions as a kind of slow-burn tension-building device.

So, there seem to be a few rules he abides by when choosing POV's. Nobody who knows too much (no Howland Reed, no Littlefinger, no Varys, no Illyrio, no Oleanna Tyrell), nobody who is a primary mover and shaker in the War (no Robb, no Tywin, no Renly, no Stannis, no Balon), nobody who the reader couldn't possibly identify with (no Rickon, no Biter, no Rorge, no Gregor, no post-zombified Catelyn). From there, he seems to balance out what he thinks will give the best overall balance to his storyline and give the most dynamic individual arcs.

[Jaxom 1974]

Why do you think Martin uses the POV characters he does and why does he choose not to use other POV's?

I debating wheter I need another POV though. Having not decided is really holding me up some.

[Muttering Bill]

I also think that there is more to the characters than just having someone to see the different parts of the world. I think that the POV characters also serve to show different outlooks on the society and different roles in that society. They are meant to create ambivalence by juxtaposition, reinforcing the idea that everyone is the hero of their own story and everyone can only see what reaches their eyes, but not beyond. Or they are meant to show different answers to one of the themes of the story: what is honor?

Sure, if you want an intelligent answer.

I'm about as perceptive as a cabbage when it comes to these things.

But seriously, there are a lot of important characters in those books, and he wrote PoV's for all them, the books would be too long. And if he didn't let you know what was happening with them, the books wouldn't have much depth.

The reasons for his PoV choices may be as Red says (it sounds a lot better than what I offered), but I think that he still needs to make a concious effort to place his major non-PoV characters close to somebody that he is writing.

When I decided to add a PoV to my story, it was because there were things that needed to be done, in relation to the king, and my main character wasn't going to be around to do it. So I had to draft another character for the task, and to make it somebody with believable motives. So the job went to the wife of my MC. It was an easy pick.

I guess I'm saying, to find what characters need to have PoV's, figure out first what needs to happen, and then find the best person for the job. Whether it's a certain task that needs to be accomplished or if it's to "show different outlooks on the society and different roles in that society," there's going to be somebody to fit the role. And if there isn't, then create him/her.

EDIT

nobody who the reader couldn't possibly identify with (...no post-zombified Catelyn).

DAMN! You've just rendered my character an unreadable sponge!

No, it's ok. I already knew it was a shitty idea. That's why it's a practice story.

[Red Sun]

The reasons for his PoV choices may be as Red says (it sounds a lot better than what I offered), but I think that he still needs to make a concious effort to place his major non-PoV characters close to somebody that he is writing.

I think it's a mixture of both, the need for someone to see certain events who does not know too much, and the need or the wish to create a sense of ambiguity that fits to the story.

When I decided to add a PoV to my story, it was because there were things that needed to be done, in relation to the king, and my main character wasn't going to be around to do it. So I had to draft another character for the task, and to make it somebody with believable motives. So the job went to the wife of my MC. It was an easy pick.

This is a very good reason, nothing too worry about. I think you just need to focus on what do you want to tell and what do you need to tell it. If a new POV is necessary to show the progress of things, then go ahead. It's all writing.

[Nymeria87]

Congrats! on the 50K.

Good Luck on reaching the 100K mark.

May your words flow like ale on New Year's Eve.

Thanks, Sword, but as far as the 100K mark...I don't know if what happened today will contribute to it or not, because as a matter of fact I received an unexpected and very, very painful shot in my left shoulder this morning when I was getting dressed so right now every movement of my arms back or sideways ends in excruciating pain and an acute inability to breathe. I'm really not whiny about pain, but apparently I pulled a muscle and even with a good dose of painkillers it just f-ing hurts But typing works just fine, it's just adding a bit of tension but it works....I don't know if that's ironic or not...I really hope it goes away soon though, because I prefer to be able to drive and move and all those nice things...

Anyway, on the PoV question I agree with what's been said so far and I've also been contemplating to re-structure my story that way for I'd like to have someone who'll be able to narrate the things that are going on in the Palace of Light, but then again there's book 2 and a totally new character who will take the lead, because Ares...well you'll see.

I second that it's a lot about different relations to characters and that it's a good way not to explicitly write down what the great movers of the game think because it adds more mystery, but also a measure of credibility to it if it's told by characters who are so closely related to them. I also loved that GRRM kept introducing new PoVs in every book because it adds a lot to the complexity of the book, I hope it's keeping up, loved Cersei and Jaime as the favorite new PoVs.

And Bill, don't worry about the zombie thing, they are cuddly!

[diabloblanco18]

I'm not anywhere near needing to make a decision on this yet, but I too have a problem with my POV's. Right now I'm using a single narrator, first-person, who's going to be right there for most of the important events of the novel. (It's structured as a quest, so this isn't too hard.) But lately, I've been thinking about what's going on outside my MC's perspective. For example, my questing party isn't only going to have to deal with the dangers of whatever (insert fantasy locale here) they're traveling through. There will also be a group chasing them...and I've been considering including a character I introduced at the beginning with them. A reluctant villain for my reluctant hero. The problem is that he's going to pop out of nowhere halfway through if I don't give him a chapter or two. But if I do, then suddenly I've got a second POV in a novel that was supposed to have only one, and a first-person one at that. Maybe I'll write a section of his just for kicks and see if I like it.

[Bellis]

Congratulations to Nym for 50K!

re:POV

My novel contains a limited number (5) of POVs. I chose a diverse group of characters whose only common thread was their profession/workplace (at least in the beginning) and started to forge story arcs for each of them. I think that it's very important that each POV have their own story arc and not exist merely for plot purposes or to serve the development of another character. This is something that Martin does really well. In fact, I'm not certain that he didn't to some extent plan the story arcs of all the POV characters when he planned his story. I don't think we should underestimate the importance of Davos and Samwell as their own characters and their own stories.

I have been tempted to write a chapter or two with different POVs, such as a brother or child, to show a different perspective or geographical location, but I have resisted. Why? For one, it really pisses me off when authors stray from their original POVs, I think it's a cop-out (*cough* Rowling *cough*). Part of the challenge of writing a novel is sticking to the structural rules that you originally created, and telling the story within that structure. If your POV character doesn't want to talk about something or go somewhere, that might be an indication that perhaps it's not important for the story of that character, and you should think twice about whether its necessary for the overall story you want to tell. Alternately, it could mean that a limited omnicience or first-person is not appropriate for your story, and you want a more omniscient narrator.

On a more practical note, I was afraid that adding more POVs would take the story on a tangent that I wasn't prepared to follow. Another thing to consider.

Finally, to soften this rant, if you need a new sub-plot, and are prepared to follow it through, especially in terms of character development, I'd say, go for it!

ETA: After reading Diablo's post, I think the added POV could work well, as long as you're willing to give him a suitable amount of screen time and development.

[Nymeria87]

Limiting a narrative to only one first person character really brings some complications with it, that's true. A friend of mine is doing his novel told by about 3 or 4 first person narrators and it's really not bad, even though a bit unusual at first, but there's no problem: just try it out and see if you like it.

I'm personally a bit torn between my first person narrative and adding several PoVs and making the whole thing third person, but I guess that's why I'm saying: write the whole thing first and then see if you like it that way or have to edit the perspectives. My project is turning into a three-book series as far as I can tell and I'm thinking of having each book told by a new character, though I'm really itching to do some narrating from Damian's, Amaelia's and Dawn's PoV (Dawn's not in the plot yet, but she'll come ) Then again I'm just working on writing the story down first, to get it out of the system and then working on everything else while I'm editing.

[Nymeria87]

sorry, the editing failed here, I'll just have to make a new post....*beats the site and the editing thingy with a big stick*