Carlos Ruiz Zafón, The Angel's Game

[needle]

Was anyone else reminded of Dan Brown reading this?

Characterisation - identical to Shadow of the Wind

Plot - horrible, ridiculous twist on Faust that not so much meandered but spun itself in dizzy, unneccessary circles

Writing - not great, though I can allow for that being in translation.

I can forgive the language, but the plot and the characterisation can't have been altered that much by poor translation. A solid thumbs down for me. Zafon failed miserably to live up to his earlier promise, though I did enjoy the first half of the book before things started getting quite so ridiculous. He is now stuck with the epithet Spanish Dan Brown in my head, for delivering a semi-mystical pot boiler with about as much depth as a puddle.

[gladius]

I finished Shadow of the Wind today. Books that make me feel so much are rare. It has real people with their flaws, weaknesses and strengths. It made me care even for those with minor roles. It's definitely the best book I've ever read.

[Arbor Gold]

Or did you want to know something else about him?

Thanks for that, and it's sort of helpful, but...I guess I just don't get it. I mean, I get the parallels that were drawn and the overarching themes and all that, but as far as the basic plot is concerned, it made very little sense to me.

SPOILER: whole book

Did any of this actually happen? Is all this just a story he made up? How much can we trust David as a narrator? For example, the scene where he lost his virginity in a place that had burned down years before. Real? Fake?

Did David really have a brain tumor? If so, how did it just go away? If not, then what the hell?

Who cut Cristina's straps and dragged her out the window?

Is David crazy?

I spoke with a friend of mine last night who just finished it, and we had pretty much the same questions (and many more). It's entirely possible that we missed something, but...?

[Arbor Gold]

*bumped for discussion*

[gladius]

SPOILER: angel's game

option 1. David was insane. He probably had the tumor and was one of those few who miraculously recover, but it still left consequences and he drifted towards madness.

option 2. It's all real. He is offered a contract by Satan (Corelli said that he was cast out by his father, that he wanted to be God, is immortal, has supernatural powers) to write a holy book for his religion. In the end Satan recognizes his mistake and gives him back Cristina as a gifts and as a payback for not finishing the book.

option 3. Something in between

I really don't know what to think of this book. The first two thirds were very good, but the last third was a real mess.

[delete this account pls]

However, I also feel that it could have done with a bit more explanation towards the end. I was left confused as to what was actually going on. I had ideas of course, but then the very end came along ensured that I couldn't be sure about anything.

This.

I think my opinion of this book can be summed up as - great writing, interesting characters, crap story'.

As a writer, Zafon has chops, no doubt about it. He nails his characters. He writes genuinely spooky scenes, the sort that make me want to turn on a few lights and check under the bed. But the story itself just seemed like a bit of a mess, especially the last couple of chapters.

[Renasko]

I want to talk about Zafon's book, which I'm more than halfway through - some fucking how. A real disappointment, this one. I absolutely adored his first book Shadow of the Wind, nor was I alone, and I guess he recognised this fact quite well. Because this is nothing but a pure cash-in. There's been some really bad cases of it over the years, but this one just takes the piss. And I probably would have settled for a re-hash of the first book, with a different slant on it, if I cared for the characters - but I really don't. The main character, David, is a Supreme Asshole, First Class.

Best example, so far, has to be:

When he visits the Sempere's shop (god, I hate how frequent they feature, as well), not for the first time, feeling healthy and non-depressing for the first time ever. He is told there is a girl who claims to know him, having delivered goods through-out his years of black (not giving a shit about anything but him self) days, that frequents their store, as well, and worships the ground he walks on, is also - it turns out - a damn fine writing talent. So Sempere being an actually nice fellow, suggests he give her some advice, y'know, help her out. Like any reasonable human being would do, especially for someone younger.

And the fuss that sack of shit works up about it, like he'd just been asked to stone a baby, is nothing beyond ridiculous. Thankfully, Sempere brings the ass around, though David never warms to the idea.

Anyway, they eventually meet by accident. The girl is shy and is trying to sneak looks, as you would expect - and he damn well should, being a writer - being a teenager and a huge admirer of his works. But how does he react? Unenthusiastic, uninterested - just generally his usual self, and yet you're supposed to give a shit whether this guy sells a million books and becomes the cream of Spain's literary masters, or not. So, the dick acts abrasive towards her and eventually agrees reluctantly to helping her out. Skip to the time he reads her work, some dark stuff that you know is in relation to her own life, as he notices when marking the cuts on her arms. Sympathy? Hell no. Not from this character.

He continues being himself, being upsetting to the poor thing, and eventually gets fucked off with her - despite recognising she has talent and could be of use to her - and kicks her out, onto the streets, after she's committed her life to him. This later leads to him noticing her on the streets, and in a rare moment of chivalry, albeit still with his usual reluctance to be a nice human being, he goes to help her...as she is being attacked by a gang of men. Now, no doubt if she would have been free of their company, he would have just went along his merry way, without a care. But no, she gets raped. He gets there late, and takes her home.

Skip to the next day, does he treat her nice and show regret that he kicked her out, thus causing the grievious harm and further emotional damage she's been put under? Nope. This is David Martin. He continues being his usual self.

Also, I love how he buys her a pen and gets all happy with himself, feeling 'selfish satisfaction', for buying a fucking pen for her - after that! Twat.

Oh, and wanting to watch the world burn, and trading his soul in for this cause, all because his best-friend is fucking a girl he likes: grow the fuck up. I would have been happy if he had died there and then.

So, yeah...read Shadow of the Wind, and enjoy - for it's a simply marvelous book - but do not handle this one. Read Shadow and make up your own mind, whether you want to continue, and you likely will, but do not expect to read another Zafon book that will be as good. Angel's Game is nothing more than a series of bad events, with no panache, lacking characters you can care about, with a carbon-copied story that has worked for him before, and (if the reactions of other people is anything to go by) has worked for him again. Count me out, though. He's a good writer, but unless I see a story different than his continued fare, I'll not be reading another one of his novels.

[Larry.]

You really don't know what the point of the book is, do you? Re-read the first paragraph, then read the rest of the book, then perhaps think of Faust. Right now, if you're only halfway in and complaining about David being a douche, I think you haven't reached the point where it begins to snap into place.

[aidan]

Watch out, Larry, or you might be accused of being the next Mystar.

[Larry.]

Pfft! :P I thought I was being at least somewhat polite here! :P

[aidan]

Well, according to some people floating around the internet, if you try to reasonably and politely explain why someone might have missed the point an author was going for, your're no better than Mystar. It was news to me, too.

;)

[Procrastimancer]

...AGH

Could not remember her actually being raped, so I pulled the book down off the shelf... binding pulled away from the spine. Damn it!

EDIT: Just found the part. Where the hell did you get that she had been raped, Renasko? It took David forty-five seconds (his own estimation, granted) to get to her once the two men attacked her. She said herself: "They hadn't managed to do anything to me yet." She may have been raped had not David risked his life to save her... you know, asshole that he is.

Hmm, you know, I rather liked David through the entirety of the book. Didn't seem an asshole to me, still doesn't.

[Larry.]

Well, according to some people floating around the internet, if you try to reasonably and politely explain why someone might have missed the point an author was going for, your're no better than Mystar. It was news to me, too.

;)

You've been spending too much time reading some of the comments in any of Pat's blog posts, haven't you? Sometimes, I just worry about the sanity of some of the people who reply with such invectives :P

[aidan]

You and I both, Larry.

Speaking of which, I'd say many of the same arguments I made for Quentin in The Magicians, I would make for David in The Angel's Game. They may be troubled, and not always likable, but that's what's interesting about them.

[Larry.]

Yeah, and some want either the cool badass semi/anti/hero to read or a character that's almost too treacly. Very strange to me. Sometimes, I've found the best books to be those who get a visceral reaction from those who seem to only like "cool" characters :P

[Procrastimancer]

Putting this in a spoiler tag, just in case. A mod should really do the same for Renasko's post above.

Hmm, I never had an issue with David. The issues that Renasko lists above do not strike me as unreasonable behavior coming from the character. He is a writer, living alone in a big house and working hard on his new commission. Why the hell would he want to put up with some amateur writer/admirer scampering about underfoot and bothering him? Further, having just read the part over, he kicks her out for both their own good:

"Watching that girl with a noble heart I felt, if anything, more miserable and understood that the sooner I got her away from me, even at the risk of hurting her, the better it would be for both of us."

He does not want her to become like him. Oh, and there is also the bit about her lying to him the whole time about the situation with her parents. If I remember correctly, they have a pretty good relationship beyond this point.

Sorry, I am really having a hard time figuring out just how he is an asshole. I mean, God, here is this guy who tries to protect unwanted wards, writes a book for his talentless friend who married the woman he loved (which goes on to be a critical success, unlike David's book, which is definitely not), and even helps his old friends with their bookshop in a time of need. Fucking prick, that guy.

I guess it is time for a reread of the books for me, now that having to read those bits again have drawn me in.

[Renasko]

You really don't know what the point of the book is, do you? Re-read the first paragraph, then read the rest of the book, then perhaps think of Faust. Right now, if you're only halfway in and complaining about David being a douche, I think you haven't reached the point where it begins to snap into place.

I very much get the 'point', thank you. I did not state a problem with that side of it, nor did I say I was 'only halfway in'. I said I was 'more than halfway', ie. reaching the end of the novel.

EDIT: Just found the part. Where the hell did you get that she had been raped, Renasko?

Pg. 208, 5th line down in the last paragraph.

[Larry.]

Your profanity-laced tirade about something that is addressed throughout the novel makes me think otherwise. But this, as in all matters, is that of personal taste, I suppose.

[gyrehead]

I want to talk about Zafon's book, which I'm more than halfway through - some fucking how. A real disappointment, this one. I absolutely adored his first book Shadow of the Wind, nor was I alone, and I guess he recognised this fact quite well. Because this is nothing but a pure cash-in. There's been some really bad cases of it over the years, but this one just takes the piss. And I probably would have settled for a re-hash of the first book, with a different slant on it, if I cared for the characters - but I really don't.

Not liking a book is one thing. But this contradictory ranting seems to border on ad hominem. And for full disclosure's sake I should point out that The Angel's Game was one of my favorite 2009 releases.

You claim that the book is a pure cash-in. While that is certainly a subjective take just as an overall opinion on the quality of the book itself, I simply fail to see how you make an argument for such when you then turn around with a comment like this

"And I probably would have settled for a re-hash of the first book, with a different slant on it, if I cared for the characters - but I really don't."

If anything that seems to indicate to me that it is hardly a cash-in since, if Zafon just wanted easy money based on the success of his prior work, he would churn out self-derivative watered-down material as quickly as he could.

And since you don't feel it is a regurgitation, I can't understand the level of righteous hostility aimed at an author for writing a book for a paycheck. Clutching pearls like you just discovered Obama's true Kenyan birth certificate seems rather extreme reaction to someone who makes a living writing and then selling that material, dares do just that.

So, yeah...read Shadow of the Wind, and enjoy - for it's a simply marvelous book - but do not handle this one. Read Shadow and make up your own mind, whether you want to continue, and you likely will, but do not expect to read another Zafon book that will be as good. Angel's Game is nothing more than a series of bad events, with no panache, lacking characters you can care about, with a carbon-copied story that has worked for him before, and (if the reactions of other people is anything to go by) has worked for him again. Count me out, though. He's a good writer, but unless I see a story different than his continued fare, I'll not be reading another one of his novels.

And now you're claiming it is a carbon copied story? Wasn't that exactly what you just said you could handle had he done so and not delivered a book you clearly don't like but seem conflicted as to why you don't like it. Which itself if fine. There are plenty of books that I simply like or dislike "just because".

It is kind of interesting to see you make such a crusade out of a book you did not like. But I'm a bit bemused at the incredible level of passion you have against an author who dared write something you did not like. Is it a crime to displease you? To not meet your reading needs? Do you take such personal affront when other authors fail to meet your requirements and expectations? I'm not being snotty, I really would like to know if this is singular case of extreme antipathy, if Zafon has outraged you in a manner no one else has or that you simply have never read such a bad book (for you). Or is it the staggering drop in quality between the two books despite my still lingering confusion over whether you found Zafon to be too self-derivative or, as a less-desired but still worthy back-up, not self-derivative enough?

Normally I wouldn't engage in something that is subjective. I too sometimes struggle with accepting the fact that 1) just because I do not like a book does not make it a "bad" book and 2)what I want from an author sits past a huge disconnect as the writer is not writing for "me"; it's not personal if a writer produces something I find disappointing, different to the point of disassociation in my reading. But the moral outrage that is inferred here; that somehow the book's failings are not only all Zafon's, but a deliberate and willful one that is somehow cheating you and everyone else that reads the book. To me this is not just silly, but hugely unfair. There are several people on several different reading communities both online and in the Tangible that have some of the same complaints. Either disliked the book outright or were disappointed and felt it suffers in compare to his previous work. But you are definitely the first that tried to underscore it with the moral imperative i.e. he was "cashing in". I don't see why a book can't simply not work for you or for you to find it bad without trying to wrap your personal opinion in some grand moral black and white righteousness. Believe or not many of us are just fine with you not liking the book and expressing that. Some of us even enjoy hearing what others see as the weaknesses of a book we liked or enjoyed. But the argument here seems that there is a distinctive attempt to create a division of right and wrong on a matter that is nothing but grey. Because it is opinion. Not moral outrage at some kind of deliberate authorial lapse.

[Renasko]

I must have failed to express my disappointment in the title, though I figured that would have been evident, after claiming how much I loved Shadow. Perhaps I should go into more detail.

AG's contains a lot of parallels to Shadow, which is all well and fine, if the author likes the setting, time, etc. When I first came across information concerning the novel, after reading Shadow, I wasn't concerned with how this one was going to fare. I was excited to revisit Zafon's writing, once more, in a different fashion. Now, I guess it is already evident, but the nature of that it seems is not to my tastes. Personally, I found the book containing very little humour was a visible downside of the book's quality. Considering this was an even darker personal story than Shadow - focusing more closely on the main character's struggles, rather than an author the main character comes to know slowly, in bits and pieces, through-out the book. For a mystery novel, the pacing was a bit overwhelming with AG's, as well.

I found the series struggles of the character a bit much. Seemed cheap, even, on the author's path. There was no relief. For example, the parts including his father. They really struck deep in me, due to the good writing, rather than my own experience. And this would be all well and good, however it lacked the charm of the first one to round things off nicely.

I'm really interested in hearing what our fellow members actually enjoyed about this title, most of all. Were the similarities with Shadow what did it for you? How about David - did anyone actually warm to him, feel concern, sympathy, anything? Was the slant on an author's struggle with carving out a writing career, despite coming from a difficult background, captivating to you? Did anyone find the side-characters a nice addition to the novel?