Last Man Standing contest?

[SkyPirate]

[quote name='vlada' post='1378370' date='May 31 2008, 20.24']Damn,your wife sure has no faith in Clegane brothers.[/quote]
Neither in the Tyrell brothers.

[Maester Yobjascz]

[quote name='SkyPirate' post='1378372' date='May 31 2008, 10.26']Neither in the Tyrell brothers.[/quote]

No... it's just that she puts a lot of faith in *crazy* when it comes to a fight. Crazy means unpredictable, and usually no regard for rules. That can make the difference against someone who is good, but conventional.

[SkyPirate]

[quote name='Maester Yobjascz' post='1378377' date='May 31 2008, 20.32']No... it's just that she puts a lot of faith in *crazy* when it comes to a fight. Crazy means unpredictable, and usually no regard for rules. That can make the difference against someone who is good, but conventional.[/quote]
Okay, I get that logic, but...

Is Rattleshirt crazier than Gregor? Or Howland crazier than Sandor? Or Randyll crazier than Garlan? Or Iron Emmet crazier than Loras? :P

[Tyrion Stark]

For those who doubt Jon Snow, remember this is everyone in their prime. we have yet to see Lord Snow in his prime but remember this. I believe it was in the AGOT when Bran was describing Jon and Robb sparring. Robb was fast and strong, while Jon was quick and agile. Plus having a direwolf on your side is a great advantage.

Also can some really tell me what is the appeal of Randyll Tarly, from the books all I got is he was short lean mean, aging man. Who was never renown for his blade but his strategic mind.

[Errant Bard]

[quote name='Tyrion Stark' post='1378484' date='May 31 2008, 21.50']For those who doubt Jon Snow, remember this is everyone in their prime. we have yet to see Lord Snow in his prime but remember this. I believe it was in the AGOT when Bran was describing Jon and Robb sparring. Robb was fast and strong, while Jon was quick and agile. Plus having a direwolf on your side is a great advantage.[/quote]Ghost wouldn't be allowed in a duel, but if it was a free for all melee, or if people were allowed allies, I submit that it would then be Jon Snow + Ghost vs The Smiling Knight + the Kingswood Brotherhood, if Jon can do it, others can. (besides, if Direwolves have the same life expectancy than wolves, Ghost in Jon's prime would be old... or dead)

As far as being quick and agile... Lots of people are. all the top fighters are, actually. That's a problem with rules allowing us to project the character in the future, you can always say that your favourite guy will be the best ever and there is nothing to disprove it, since it's not written yet. Anyway, Tommen in his prime would beat Jon and ghost single-handely, it is known, and Tyrion Stokesworth would beat Tommen, in turn, buth both of them would bow before Arya's skill, in fact they would even die before the duel began.

[Tyrion Stark]

[quote name='Errant Bard' post='1378529' date='May 31 2008, 16.46']Ghost wouldn't be allowed in a duel, but if it was a free for all melee, or if people were allowed allies, I submit that it would then be Jon Snow + Ghost vs The Smiling Knight + the Kingswood Brotherhood, if Jon can do it, others can. (besides, if Direwolves have the same life expectancy than wolves, Ghost in Jon's prime would be old... or dead)

As far as being quick and agile... Lots of people are. all the top fighters are, actually. That's a problem with rules allowing us to project the character in the future, you can always say that your favourite guy will be the best ever and there is nothing to disprove it, since it's not written yet. Anyway, Tommen in his prime would beat Jon and ghost single-handely, it is known, and Tyrion Stokesworth would beat Tommen, in turn, buth both of them would bow before Arya's skill, in fact they would even die before the duel began.[/quote]

Lol, good point I guess its all just speculation but it doesn't make it any less fun

[Olenna]

I'm not sure why everyone assumes that Jon Snow is/will be a great warrior, other than because he's the closest thing in the books to a typical fantasy protagonist. We know that he's one of the best fighters in the Night's Watch, but that's not saying much. He's practiced a lot, but he's had little hand-to-hand combat experience (the battle with the wildlings was only a siege). If that battle is any indicator, his main skill is in military strategy rather than actual fighting. Now that he's become Lord Commander, he's probably too indispensable to engage in much combat himself.

If he does become an awesome swordsman, I'll be disappointed, because that would be so typical.

[Kimera757]

I don't think there's evidence that Jon Snow is going to be a good fighter, either.

Snow was a nobleman (of a sort) who wasn't going to inherit. In medieval Western Europe, such a person usually became a priest, knight or government employee. Commoners, by contrast, rarely had the time to learn how to fight, and even mercenaries were rarely as good as knights (1:1) since the mercs started training at maybe age 16 while the knights started training at age ... 7. (Yes, you read that right. Seven.)

Most of the time, a battle between knights was determined by who trained the most.

[Tyrion Stark]

[quote name='Kimera757' post='1378627' date='May 31 2008, 18.53']I don't think there's evidence that Jon Snow is going to be a good fighter, either.

Snow was a nobleman (of a sort) who wasn't going to inherit. In medieval Western Europe, such a person usually became a priest, knight or government employee. Commoners, by contrast, rarely had the time to learn how to fight, and even mercenaries were rarely as good as knights (1:1) since the mercs started training at maybe age 16 while the knights started training at age ... 7. (Yes, you read that right. Seven.)

Most of the time, a battle between knights was determined by who trained the most.[/quote]

By that logic Lord Snow will be an awesome fighter. proof: AFFC Samwell I " Once, when Jon came to consult with Maester Aemon, Sam had asked him why he spent so much time at swordplay. 'The Old Bear never trained much when he was Lord Commander,' he had pointed out. In answer, Jon had pressed Longclaw into Sam's hand. He let him feel the lightness, the balance, had him turn the blade so that ripples gleamed in the smoke-dark metal. 'Valyrian steel," he said "spell-forged and razor-sharp, nigh on indestructible. A swordsman should be as good as his sword, Sam. Longclaw is Valyrian steel, but I'm not.'

Jon has began his training at the same age as any noble as you suggested and his work ethic and blade makes him quality fighter. Things like that make people support him.

[ogbebaba]

North
(1) [b]Barristan Selmy[/b] Vs (16) Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers
(8) [b]Mag the Mighty[/b] Vs (9) Timett son of Timett
(5) [b]Jon "Greatjon" Umber[/b] Vs (12) Donal Noyle
(4) Gerold Hightower Vs (13) [b]Varamyr Sixskins[/b]
(6) [b]Lyonel Baratheon[/b] Vs (11) Benjen Stark
(3) [b]The Smiling Knight[/b] Vs (14) Jon Snow
(7) [b]Rhaegar Targaryen[/b] Vs (10) Shagga
(2) [b]Gregor Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Rattleshirt

South
(1) [b]Arthur Dayne[/b] Vs (16) Biter
(8) Daario Naharis Vs (9) [b]Gerold Dayne[/b]
(5) [b]Oberyn Martell[/b] Vs (12) Jorah Mormont
(4) [b]Areo Hotah [/b]Vs (13) Beric Dondarrion
(6) [b]Garlan Tyrell[/b] Vs (11) Randyll Tarly
(3) Baelor Targaryen Vs (14) [b]Aerion Brightflame[/b]
(7) [b]Qhorin Halfhand[/b] Vs (10) Lynn Corbray
(2) Serwyn of the Mirrorshield Vs (15) [b]Ilyn Payne
[/b]
West
(1) [b]Jaime Lannister[/b] Vs (16) Vargo Hoat
(8) Iron Emmet Vs (9) [b]Loras Tyrell[/b]
(5) [b]Victarion Greyjoy[/b] Vs (12) Dagmer Cleftjaw
(4) [b]Andrik the Unsmiling[/b] Vs (13) Eddard Stark
(6) [b]"Strong" Belwas[/b] Vs (11) Black Walder Frey
(3) Daemon Blackfyre Vs (14) [b]Euron Greyjoy[/b]
(7) [b]Tormund Giantsbane[/b] Vs (10) Brynden Tully
(2) [b]Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers[/b] Vs (15) Theon Greyjoy

East
(1) [b]Aemon the Dragonknight[/b] Vs (16) Lem Lemoncloak
(8) [b]Bronn[/b] Vs (9) Thoros of Myr
(5) [b]Duncan the Tall[/b] Vs (12)Greyworm
(4) [b]Khal Drogo[/b] Vs (13) Ramsay Snow
(6) [b]Syrio Forel[/b] Vs (11) Gwayne Corbray
(3) [b]Robert Baratheon[/b] Vs (14) Jason Mallister
(7) Bronze Yohn Royce Vs (10) [b]Brienne of Tarth[/b]
(2) [b]Sandor Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Howland Reed

[Errant Bard]

Oh, right, anyway...

North
(1) [b]Barristan "The Bold" Selmy[/b] Vs (16) Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers
(8) [b]Mag the Mighty[/b] Vs (9) Timett son of Timett
(5) [b]Jon "Greatjon" Umber[/b] Vs (12) Donal Noyle
(4) [b]Gerold "The White Bull" Hightower[/b] Vs (13) Varamyr Sixskins
(6) [b]Lyonel "The Laughing Storm" Baratheon[/b] Vs (11) Benjen Stark
(3) [b]The Smiling Knight[/b] Vs (14) Jon Snow
(7) [b]Rhaegar Targaryen[/b] Vs (10) Shagga
(2) [b]Gregor "The mountain that rides" Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Rattleshirt

South
(1) [b]Arthur "The Sword of the Morning" Dayne[/b] Vs (16) Biter
(8) Daario Naharis Vs (9) [b]Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne[/b]
(5) [b]Oberyn "The Red Viper" Martell[/b] Vs (12) Jorah Mormont
(4) [b]Areo Hotah[/b] Vs (13) Beric "The Lightning Lord" Dondarrion
(6) [b]Garlan "The Gallant" Tyrell[/b] Vs (11) Randyll Tarly
(3) Baelor "Breakspear" Targaryen Vs (14) [b]Aerion Brightflame[/b]
(7) Qhorin Halfhand Vs (10) [b]Lynn Corbray[/b]
(2) [b]Serwyn of the Mirrorshield[/b] Vs (15) Ilyn Payne

West
(1) [b]Jaime "Kingslayer" Lannister[/b] Vs (16) Vargo Hoat
(8) Iron Emmet Vs (9) [b]Loras Tyrell[/b]
(5) Victarion Greyjoy Vs (12) [b]Dagmer Cleftjaw[/b]
(4) [b]Andrik the Unsmiling[/b] Vs (13) Eddard Stark
(6) [b]"Strong" Belwas[/b] Vs (11) Black Walder Frey
(3) [b]Daemon Blackfyre[/b] Vs (14) Euron Greyjoy
(7) Tormund Giantsbane Vs (10) [b]Brynden "Blackfish" Tully[/b]
(2) [b]Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers[/b] Vs (15) Theon Greyjoy

East
(1) [b]Aemon the Dragonknight[/b] Vs (16) Lem Lemoncloak
(8) Bronn Vs (9) [b]Thoros of Myr[/b]
(5) Duncan the Tall Vs (12) [b]Greyworm[/b]
(4) [b]Khal Drogo[/b] Vs (13) Ramsay Snow
(6) [b]Syrio Forel[/b] Vs (11) Gwayne Corbray
(3) [b]Robert Baratheon[/b] Vs (14) Jason Mallister
(7) Bronze Yohn Royce Vs (10) [b]Brienne of Tarth[/b]
(2) Sandor "The Hound" Clegane Vs (15) [b]Howland Reed[/b]

[Maester Yobjascz]

So... how many votes 'till we judge the next round?

Moreover, what's the point of a bracket if there aren't any predictions of who's the overall winner?

East bracket - Syrio squeaks out past Khal Drogo
West bracket - Strong Belwas takes advantage of a soft bracket, but loses to Jaime in a close match
South bracket - Arthur Dayne beats out Garlan Tyrell
North bracket - Lyonel Baratheon beats everyone into submission except Barristan the Bold

The Sword of Morning edges out his protege, Barristan the Bold
Jaime Lannister matches Syrio's skill and speed but overpowers him

This duel drags on for a *long* time, before Dawn's edge gives Dayne the advantage. Had Jaime kept Oathkeeper, he might have won.

[din]

North
(1) [b]Barristan Selmy[/b] Vs (16) Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers
(8) [b]Mag the Mighty[/b] Vs (9) Timett son of Timett
(5) [b]Jon "Greatjon" Umber[/b] Vs (12) Donal Noyle
(4) [b]Gerold Hightower[/b] Vs (13) Varamyr Sixskins
(6) [b]Lyonel Baratheon[/b] Vs (11) Benjen Stark
(3) [b]The Smiling Knight[/b] Vs (14) Jon Snow
(7) Rhaegar Targaryen Vs (10) [b]Shagga[/b]
(2) [b]Gregor Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Rattleshirt

South
(1) [b]Arthur Dayne[/b] Vs (16) Biter
(8) Daario Naharis Vs (9) [b]Gerold Dayne[/b]
(5) [b]Oberyn Martell[/b] Vs (12) Jorah Mormont
(4) [b]Areo Hotah [/b]Vs (13) Beric Dondarrion
(6) [b]Garlan Tyrell[/b] Vs (11) Randyll Tarly
(3) Baelor Targaryen Vs (14) [b]Aerion Brightflame[/b]
(7) Qhorin Halfhand Vs (10) [b]Lynn Corbray[/b]
(2) [b]Serwyn of the Mirrorshield[/b] Vs (15) Ilyn Payne

West
(1) [b]Jaime Lannister [/b]Vs (16) Vargo Hoat
(8) Iron Emmet Vs (9) [b]Loras Tyrell[/b]
(5) Victarion Greyjoy Vs (12) [b]Dagmer Cleftjaw[/b]
(4) [b]Andrik the Unsmiling[/b] Vs (13) Eddard Stark
(6) [b]"Strong" Belwas [/b]Vs (11) Black Walder Frey
(3) [b]Daemon Blackfyre[/b] Vs (14) Euron Greyjoy
(7) [b]Tormund Giantsbane[/b] Vs (10) Brynden Tully
(2) [b]Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers[/b] Vs (15) Theon Greyjoy

East
(1) [b]Aemon the Dragonknight[/b] Vs (16) Lem Lemoncloak
(8) [b]Bronn[/b] Vs (9) Thoros of Myr
(5) [b]Duncan the Tall[/b] Vs (12)Greyworm
(4) [b]Khal Drogo [/b]Vs (13) Ramsay Snow
(6) [b]Syrio Forel[/b] Vs (11) Gwayne Corbray
(3) [b]Robert Baratheon[/b] Vs (14) Jason Mallister
(7) Bronze Yohn Royce Vs (10) [b]Brienne of Tarth[/b]
(2) [b]Sandor Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Howland Reed

[Kimera757]

[quote name='Tyrion Stark' post='1378901' date='Jun 1 2008, 02.04']Jon has began his training at the same age as any noble as you suggested and his work ethic and blade makes him quality fighter. Things like that make people support him.[/quote]

I wish I could quote large sections of "Knights of the Black and White" about how real knights trained. In real life, knights trained that way. They were learning to fight [b]to the death[/b] so no one shirked their duty. It sucked to be beaten by someone who was simply more dedicated to their training than you were.

I see no evidence that Jon trains harder than the top fighters, and even if he did, natural talent counts for something too, and we don't know how much natural talent Jon has. I seriously do not see him outdoing Loras Tyrell, for instance, who is about the same age (I think only a year older).

[Lord of Salvation]

I think the best way to determine winners is to have a poll of the first round. One vote per fight from each person in the poll, and the characters receiving more votes than their opposition move on to the next round. But there cant be discussion on rounds, or else that would sway the votes, only after each round is completed can you discuss your opinions.

[Ender]

North
(1) [b]Barristan Selmy[/b] Vs (16) Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers
(8) [b]Mag the Mighty[/b] Vs (9) Timett son of Timett
(5) [b]Jon "Greatjon" Umber[/b] Vs (12) Donal Noyle
(4) [b]Gerold Hightower[/b] Vs (13) Varamyr Sixskins
(6) [b]Lyonel Baratheon[/b] Vs (11) Benjen Stark
(3) [b]The Smiling Knight[/b] Vs (14) Jon Snow
(7) [b]Rhaegar Targaryen[/b] Vs (10) Shagga
(2) [b]Gregor Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Rattleshirt

South
(1) [b]Arthur Dayne[/b] Vs (16) Biter
(8) Daario Naharis Vs (9) [b]Gerold Dayne[/b]
(5) [b]Oberyn Martell[/b] Vs (12) Jorah Mormont
(4) [b]Areo Hotah[/b] Vs (13) Beric Dondarrion
(6) [b]Garlan Tyrell[/b] Vs (11) Randyll Tarly
(3) Baelor Targaryen Vs (14) [b]Aerion Brightflame[/b] (miracle three-pointer at the buzzer)
(7) Qhorin Halfhand Vs (10) [b]Lynn Corbray[/b]
(2) [b]Serwyn of the Mirrorshield[/b] Vs (15) Ilyn Payne

West
(1) [b]Jaime Lannister[/b] Vs (16) Vargo Hoat
(8) Iron Emmet Vs (9) [b]Loras Tyrell[/b]
(5) Victarion Greyjoy Vs (12) [b]Dagmer Cleftjaw[/b] (I needed the standard 12 over 5)
(4) [b]Andrik the Unsmiling[/b] Vs (13) Eddard Stark
(6) [b]"Strong" Belwas[/b] Vs (11) Black Walder Frey
(3) [b]Daemon Blackfyre[/b] Vs (14) Euron Greyjoy
(7) [b]Tormund Giantsbane[/b] Vs (10) Brynden Tully
(2) [b]Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers[/b] Vs (15) Theon Greyjoy

East
(1) [b]Aemon the Dragonknight[/b] Vs (16) Lem Lemoncloak
(8) [b]Bronn[/b] Vs (9) Thoros of Myr
(5) [b]Duncan the Tall[/b] Vs (12) Greyworm
(4) [b]Khal Drogo[/b] Vs (13) Ramsay Snow
(6) [b]Syrio Forel[/b] Vs (11) Gwayne Corbray
(3) [b]Robert Baratheon[/b] Vs (14) Jason Mallister
(7) Bronze Yohn Royce Vs (10) [b]Brienne of Tarth[/b]
(2) [b]Sandor Clegane[/b] Vs (15) Howland Reed

[i]Predictions[/i]:
North: Jon Snow over Barristan Selmy (depending on the voting rules adopted. the Snow fanboys will be here soon) would happy to get my final four busted on the first day, however.
South: Arthur Dayne over Garlan
West: Daemon Blackfyre over Jaime. I'm not a DB fan, but he seems to get nearly as much love as Jon Snow around here.
East: Sandor over Khal Drogo.

Final Four: Arthur Dayne over Jon Snow--Jon Snow fanboyism is exceeded in ASoIaF circles only by Arthur Dayne fanboyism
Sandor over Daemon Blackfyre

National Championship Game: gritty underdog upsets the flashy favorite, proposes to Sansa on the court following the game. ;) IOW, Sandor over Arthur Dayne.

[Errant Bard]

Predictions, uh...

[b][u]North[/u][/b]
As it seems that so far, the "[i]Gregor Clegane of his generation[/i]" (as assessed by Jaime) is winning against the speculated Jon super swordsman, I see:
Quarter-finals:Barristan, Gerold Hightower, Smiling Knight, Gregor
Semi-finals: Barristan, Gregor
Final: [b]Barristan[/b]

[u][b]South[/b][/u]
Nothing can stand against [b]Arthur Dayne[/b]'s steamroller, but before that, Garlan vs Lynn Corbray would be a good match.

[u][b]West[/b][/u]
Clear Jaime vs Daemon Blackfyre final. [b]Daemon[/b] wins in account of people not liking Jaime and diminishing his ability. Daemon Blackfyre is recalled as "the warrior himself" and never seen alive so he has an edge.

[b][u]East[/u][/b]
Strong contenders in the heart of boarders here, some hard quarter and semi finals:

Quarter finals:
Syrio vs Robert: Syrio wins because he is cooler, and Robert was shown being an overweight drunk, (disregarding the "demon of the trident" robert)

Semi finals:
Bronn vs Khal Drogo, I think Bronn will pull an unexpected win on account of his Bobba Fett status, and of a counterreaction to Khal Drogo's "invincibility"
Sandor vs Syrio: Sandor wins, fans of Syrio are fan of badass characters and Sandor is more badass.

Finals:
Sandor vs Bronn, [b]Sandor[/b] has the edge and wins.

[b][u]Final fours[/u][/b]
Barristan vs Arthur Dayne -> [b]Arthur Dayne[/b]
Sandor vs Daemon Blackfyre -> [b]Sandor[/b]

Arthur Dayne vs Sandor -> [b]Arthur Dayne[/b]

[DocBean]

[b]OK.

FIRST ROUND IS DONE.
LET'S TALLY THE VOTES AND START ROUND TWO.[/b]

[DocBean]

Not a single upset in the North, all top 8 seeds advance:

North - Round II
(1) Barristan Selmy Vs (8) Mag the Mighty
(5) Jon "Greatjon" Umber Vs (4) Gerold Hightower
(3) The Smiling Knight Vs (6) Lyonel Baratheon
(2) Gregor Clegane Vs (7) Rhaegar Targaryen


give me a minute to do the next region.

[DocBean]

Some nice upsets in this one.
I don't have time to do the West and East, so maybe I'll get to it later.

South - Round II
(1) Arthur Dayne Vs (9) Gerold Dayne (Darkstar)
(4) Areo Hotah Vs (5) Oberyn Martell (Red Viper)
(6) Garlan Tyrell Vs (14) Aerion Brightflame
(2) Serwyn of the Mirrorshield Vs (10) Lynn Corbray - was a tie with half-hand, i flipped a coin and let the gods decide it.


Anyone want to do the sportscenter breakdown of our first round matchups?