A Brand New MMA Thread

[Ser Barry]

My guess would be that Lorenzo got hold of Dana and told him to sort his life out once they saw the massive fan reaction to the news.

[Ken Stone]

[quote name='GSP' post='1596057' date='Nov 21 2008, 00.42']Could even be true. Fitch was mentioning action figures and stuff like that when he went off about the exclusive agreement. Or maybe, Dana just blatantly and disgustingly used strong arm tactics to force a camp of fighters to sell themselves short again. What's your guess?[/quote]

My guess is Lorenzo and White Good Cop/Bad Copped AKA fighters into signing the agreements.

I don't understand these lifetime contracts. It seems to me that it should be written into the contract that the merchandising rights only last as long as the fighter is under a fight contract with the UFC. If the UFC cuts them they should have rights to their name and image back again.

[Oorag]

I don't think this was all some sort of negotiation technique by the UFC. They got some bad press off this debacle. Dana tried his usual strong-arm approach, overplayed his hand, and nearly drove some big-name fighters from the roster before Lorenzo stepped in and smoothed things over. Lorenzo was probably a key factor to getting Couture back in the UFC as well.

[GSP]

How long before Lorenzo gets a little too tired of playing Dana damage control?

[Oorag]

[quote name='GSP' post='1596694' date='Nov 21 2008, 11.34']How long before Lorenzo gets a little too tired of playing Dana damage control?[/quote]
Exactly. I was wondering why Dana seemed so genuinely enthusiastic about having Lorenzo take a more active role in management. Now he's got his boss breathing down his neck and ready to step in whenever he makes a mistake. Not a good place to be.

[Ken Stone]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1596585' date='Nov 21 2008, 13.29']I don't think this was all some sort of negotiation technique by the UFC. They got some bad press off this debacle. Dana tried his usual strong-arm approach, overplayed his hand, and nearly drove some big-name fighters from the roster before Lorenzo stepped in and smoothed things over. Lorenzo was probably a key factor to getting Couture back in the UFC as well.[/quote]

They got bad press but they also got exactly what they wanted. Not only that but they basically made an example of Fitch and he came crawling back with his tail between his legs. I don't see how you can look at this as any thing other than a complete and total victory for UFC management. Sure they get a little bad press but who really cares? Is it bad enough that people will stop buying PPV's? Of course not, so in the end it doesn't really matter. They got exactly what they wanted in regards to the contracts signed, and took a shot over the bows of any other fighters who might have been thinking about not caving into their wishes in the future.

[Oorag]

The UFC got their likeness rights for the video game, but I didn't see anything saying that Fitch signed the same agreement that he initially rejected. The UFC might have made concessions for all I know. According to GSP, the whole thing might have been a misunderstanding that got exacerbated by Dana's behavior.

The event alone won't directly hurt the UFC's revenue, but it's never good for your own fighters to be trashing you in the media. The UFC already has a reputation for bullying its talent, and this just makes it worse. They're fortunate that their competitors all apparently have terrible business models, but come the day when they eventually have smart domestic competition, this kind of behavior could come back to haunt them.

[Ken Stone]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1596930' date='Nov 21 2008, 17.45']The UFC got their likeness rights for the video game, but I didn't see anything saying that Fitch signed the same agreement that he initially rejected. The UFC might have made concessions for all I know. According to GSP, the whole thing might have been a misunderstanding that got exacerbated by Dana's behavior.

The event alone won't directly hurt the UFC's revenue, but it's never good for your own fighters to be trashing you in the media. The UFC already has a reputation for bullying its talent, and this just makes it worse. They're fortunate that their competitors all apparently have terrible business models, but come the day when they eventually have smart domestic competition, this kind of behavior could come back to haunt them.[/quote]

[url="http://www.mmabay.co.uk/Story%20Fitchreturns.html"]Article on MMABay[/url]

This article says he signed the agreement he originally rejected. Basically went crawling back on his knees to the UFC, and became an object lesson to all the other fighters. The whole "We went to Lorenzo" thing just smacks of Good Cop/Bad Cop. I can imagine how the conversation with Lorenzo went. "Dana was just so disrespectful. *sniff* *sniff*" "Well you know how he can be. Why don't you just sign the contract and we'll put this whole mess behind us".

[Oorag]

[quote name='Ken Stone' post='1596962' date='Nov 21 2008, 15.19']This article says he signed the agreement he originally rejected.[/quote]
I'm not seeing that. It says "a mutually beneficial agreement has been reached" and "we came to an agreement." Nothing says that Fitch signed the same agreement that was initially offered. In fact, the wording of both of those statements imply to me that each side negotiated and formed a new agreement.

Further, I don't see how a good cop/bad cop routine could work unless you make concessions. The bad cop is supposed to play hardball, and then the good cop is supposed to make a few token concessions to "cut you a break," thus making the deal look more attractive.

[Ser Barry]

Fitch offered to sign a 5 year contract and when things got heated he offered to sign a 10 year contract. It was when Dana told him to fuck off after the second offer that things went to the dogs. The only details I can find about the compromise was that they have all signed to allow them to appear in the next game, no details on the length of the contract.

[GSP]

[url="http://mmajunkie.com/news/13320/report-randy-couture-vs-chuck-liddell-iv-in-works-for-germany-event.mma"]http://mmajunkie.com/news/13320/report-ran...rmany-event.mma[/url]

Couture Liddell IV in Germany in June at heavyweight?

A. Silva to fight one of the loosers of either Evans/Griffin or Jackson/Silva at 205? A. Silva v. W. Silva, just had me a little anticipatory shutter at the thought of that one. A. Silva v. Jackson also makes me salivate.

Doesn't sound like any of the above are a sure thing, but it sounds like they are thinking of shaking things up a bit.

[Ser Barry]

[quote name='GSP' post='1598133' date='Nov 23 2008, 17.26'][url="http://mmajunkie.com/news/13320/report-randy-couture-vs-chuck-liddell-iv-in-works-for-germany-event.mma"]http://mmajunkie.com/news/13320/report-ran...rmany-event.mma[/url]

Couture Liddell IV in Germany in June at heavyweight?

A. Silva to fight one of the loosers of either Evans/Griffin or Jackson/Silva at 205? A. Silva v. W. Silva, just had me a little anticipatory shutter at the thought of that one. A. Silva v. Jackson also makes me salivate.

Doesn't sound like any of the above are a sure thing, but it sounds like they are thinking of shaking things up a bit.[/quote]

I'd go.

[Oorag]

Anyone watch Strikeforce over the weekend? The LHW champ, original TUF reject Bobby Southworth, won the first round, but a nasty elbow from Babalu forced a stoppage after the bell. Neither fighter looked very impressive. Scott Smith got a fast KO of Terry Martin. During his post-fight interview, he gave a shout-out to a gay couple who went to Canada to get married. I thought that was a pretty brave move for a fighter, but then again, he already wears powder-puff blue trunks. Women's MMA took a few steps back when Kim Couture TKO'd another 0-1 fighter who apparently didn't realize that she might get hit. It's easy to see why that matchup got made, but spotlighting such green fighters is no way to legitimize women in MMA.

[GSP]

I'd read Couture's opponent was a little overmatched. Was it really that bag Oorag?

[Oorag]

Yeah, I think her name was Kvokov. To be fair, Couture came on pretty strong, but Kvokov almost immediately started turning her back on Couture and running away. Rutten commented that she wasn't there to fight, and the ref called it while she was still on her feet. I suspect that Strikeforce intentionally selected the least impressive fighter they could to ensure Couture's victory.

[GSP]

Well, I'll pipe in again to save the thread if nothing else.

Anybody been tracking this up and coming "Bellator" fight promotion? They already signed Eddie Alvarez. Other notables like War Machine are rumoured to be going there. Tournament format to choose champs in each weight division (no 'please Dana, I've been good, give me a title shot'). They have a network deal lined up with Spanish ESPN. Could be a good thing. Thoughts?

[Oorag]

Looks like the only way to get an English broadcast of this Bellator promotion will be streaming through their website. It seems kind of odd to have an MMA promotion on television, but without an English language broadcast. There's a four-part interview at MMA Junkie, with a few snippets of information to scavange amongst all the PR. Eddie Alvarez will be a feather in their cap if they've really got him. I wish he'd go to a major promotion, though.

[url="http://mmajunkie.com/event/595/bellator-fighting-championships-debut-on-espn-depo.mma"]Bellator info on MMA Junkie.[/url]

In other news, it looks like WEC 37 is tomorrow. Kind of snuck up on me. Not sure what time it's airing, but I hope they're not counter-programming their own TUF show. I believe they did that last time. Also, Versus seems to always screw up the air time of WEC, so I'm probably going to either have to babysit my DVR or have it record 1 hour before and after just to make sure I get the whole show. Looks like a card full of top Bantamweight and Featherweight talent.

[GSP]

Just had my first episode of TUF spoiled by insider knowlege. Buddy of mine on MSN told me Krystoff and Junie were going to lose their fights and I should go try and make some money betting people on it. He does physical training with a guy who trains Sam Stout, Mark Homonick and Chris Hordecki and sees them in the gymn all the time. He overheard Homonick and Hordecki talking about it. Sure enough.

Too bad. Was hoping to see Krystoff in the finals. Took the loss as professionally as you could I guess though.

Got a guy saving the WEC fight for me on Tivo. I'm sure I'll be fully spoiled before I see it.

[Oorag]

TUF was pretty interesting. Magalhães is a beast on the ground. He got submissions in seconds after getting his opponents to the ground. If he can perform half that well against seasoned UFC fighters, he's got a bright future. However, the guys he was fighting sure weren't ground specialists, and his 2-2 record doesn't speak very highly of him. Hopefully he'll be able to submit Bader, who seems to define lay-n-pray. For the lightweights, both guys look pretty well-rounded, so that should be a good fight.

[GSP]

Yeah, that Bader/Marshall fight was definitely a lay n pray snoozefest. I look like that a lot when I grapple, but I'm horrificly out of shape and don't know much and just have the power to manage to get myself into top position. I expect world's more out of a pro fighter breaking into the UFC ranks.