A Brand New MMA Thread

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1562992' date='Oct 21 2008, 13.56']It's not unique to MMA. I don't anticipate any women boxers showing up on the undercard of the Pavlik-Hopkins fight, and I don't recall the last time there was a WNBA thread on this board. The general public is much less interested in the female version of almost every professional sport. There are a few exceptions, such as tennis and volleyball. Women lucky enough to be talented at those sports or mixed-gender sports like racing don't have anything to worry about. Everyone else is just going to have to accept the general level of interest in their sport and decide for themselves if they want to make it a career. Strongman competitors and curling prodigies aren't going to make millions at their chosen crafts either.[/quote]
Shockingly enough female strongwomen are relatively stable since sports like that as a whole is pretty insular. Men and women are similarly marginalized from the mainstream, but they are supported by fans who are into the lifestyle and support each other. But MMA is very different in that not all of it's fans compete, and some don't even train. But your right about the sports that women are or aren't accepted in. But basketball is a bad analogy since you can see the difference in the quality of play. Explosiveness and above-the-rim play is essential to basketball which most women can't do well. But if you go on Sherdog you'll see time and again a guy say that he's not a fan of women's MMA but in the same sentence say that he found their fights more exciting than anything on the last UFC card. There's a disconnect there. They say that they like the fights and some even anticipate seeing the next Carano fight or even others, but they don't like women's MMA. I'm sorry, I don't get that. And it's that attitude that I don't like. They want to eliminate it from MMA just because of whatever beliefs they have on whether or not women should fight and train. I can't get on board with that attitude, but maybe thats just my mindset and how I see what they do for a living.

[Oorag]

[quote]But basketball is a bad analogy since you can see the difference in the quality of play. Explosiveness and above-the-rim play is essential to basketball which most women can't do well. But if you go on Sherdog you'll see time and again a guy say that he's not a fan of women's MMA but in the same sentence say that he found their fights more exciting than anything on the last UFC card. There's a disconnect there.[/quote]I've spent more time then I'd like to admit browsing the sherdog forums and I honestly haven't seen that phenomenon. However, you've got a point that combat sports automatically compensate for women's size. At the same time, women in combat sports face a unique cultural bias. Lots of people don't want to watch women get punched in the face. It's not just male chauvinism, either. My sister is a casual fan of MMA, but she admitted to feeling somewhat troubled while watching the latest Gina Carano fight.

[Ser Barry]

Can we just clarify that unless the magical helium fairy flew up Gina's arse she didn't make weight for this fight either.

I will admit to having reservations about female MMA, then I watched it. It is just as entertaining as male MMA and that is the crux of the matter. Female athletics would be a better comparison than any made so far, although a far from perfect one.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Ser Barry' post='1563077' date='Oct 21 2008, 14.56']Can we just clarify that unless the magical helium fairy flew up Gina's arse she didn't make weight for this fight either.[/quote]
That is the one place where Elite XC gets a pass. The state athletic commissions handle weigh-ins, judges, refereeing, etc. Not the promotions. But it did seem strange. Shouldn't have been a problem if she fought Cyborg who's heavier.

[quote name='Oorag' post='1563059' date='Oct 21 2008, 14.43']I've spent more time then I'd like to admit browsing the sherdog forums and I honestly haven't seen that phenomenon.[/quote]Most of it came down today in the "what about women's MMA" threads.

[Ser Barry]

My beef is really with Fox News who broke the news of her making weight before she even stepped onto the scales.

[Ser Barry]

So if I was to tell you that a UFC fighter had been arrested for driving under the influence of drugs who would you think to be the least likely candidate?




[url="http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/cummo-arrested-on-dwi-for-drugs-14871"]http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/cummo-arr...for-drugs-14871[/url]

[Horus Ex Machina]

Before I read it, let me make a guess:

Rich Franklin or Randy Couture. Anderson Silva would surprise me too.

[GSP]

Luke Cummo, no?

Was just on Junkie. According to an article there, Affliction is seriously thinking of picking up the women's MMA fighters from EliteXC and even made specific reference to Gina Carano and Cyborg. Crossing my fingures.

I gotta pipe in that I was quite skeptical of the idea of women's MMA. Then, on an old BoDog replay I saw a fight between two women that just dropped my jaw. They looked like a couple of featherweight dudes going at it, dynamic as hell with and with the apparent energy level of hummingbirds.

I can't even remember the fighters names, but I've always been open minded to women's MMA since that fight and note that I rarely see a fight that disappoints.

Some of the quesiness about the whole affair though, might just come from the thought of some sweet little thing like Gina ending up with her pretty face ground and pounded into unrecognition some fight in the future. Nobody wants to see that, except some jealous ugly women out there I suppose. We see guys get pretty mangled up in the cage, no problem, no biggie. But can you imagine if Gina Carrano of 'The Karate Hottie' ended up looking like John Fitch post St. Pierre, Lousea pose Franklin, Monson post Sylvia or some shit like that. Then the old 'barbaric' card would come up in spades I'm sure. Just a dreaded thought.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1562898' date='Oct 21 2008, 12.40']It's not unique to MMA. I don't anticipate any women boxers showing up on the undercard of the Pavlik-Hopkins fight, and I don't recall the last time there was a WNBA thread on this board. The general public is much less interested in the female version of almost every professional sport. There are a few exceptions, such as tennis and volleyball. Women lucky enough to be talented at those sports or mixed-gender sports like racing don't have anything to worry about. Everyone else is just going to have to accept the general level of interest in their sport and decide for themselves if they want to make it a career. Strongman competitors and curling prodigies aren't going to make millions at their chosen crafts either.[/quote]

Look, I've got my latent chauvinism as many long term members of this board can attest to. I disdain most female sports because they simply don't display the same amount of speed, skill, athleticism, and overall just aren't that exciting. But I watched the first CBS/EliteXC card and Gina Carano's fight was the fight of the night. (it may have had competition from the second to last fight, but that was cut short by DQ/injury I believe) It was brutal, it was bloody, fast paced, decent skill, speed, and power on display. And on the most recent card? Still one of the top fights of the night and quite entertaining.

Maybe this isn't the makings of an entire female spinoff sport. Maybe there aren't enough who can compete at that level. But they can absolutely make it watchable and entertaining on par with the men's cards. They have one certified star, an obvious big fight that alot of people want to see happen, and the possibility of building on that for the future. Its probably because my UFC exposure is limited due to not getting PPV's, but I'd rather see the Carano/Cyborg fight right now than alot of others in the sport. And I think it'd be a huge disappointment if it never happens and the women's MMA folds.

Carano should be given the same amount of shit a man would for not making weight. The rounds should be 5 minutes. I agree there. But don't let the shit die out just because Dana White is a walking Vince McMahon caricature and a big chunk of the UFC fanbase are a bunch of misogynist pricks. Somebody pick this shit up.

[Oorag]

UFC 90 is in two days! Who are your picks?

[b]Silva [/b]vs. Côté - Obviously Silva is the huge favorite. I'm curious how well Dellagrotte prepares Côté.
[b]Alves [/b]vs. Koscheck - I want to see another wrestler get KO'd.
[b]Werdum [/b]vs. dos Santos - This is a tune-up fight so people don't completely forget Werdum while he sits on the shelf.
[b]Sherk[/b] vs. Griffin - This will be an excellent fight, but I give Sherk the slight edge. Griffin always looks great.
[b]Maynard [/b]vs. Clementi - Maynard is too big and strong. Unless he gets KO'd somehow, I see him taking a UD.

[b]Leites [/b]vs. McFedries - McFedries hasn't impressed me, and he's a late replacement.
[b]Fisher [/b]vs. Gugerty - Like Fisher a lot.
Horwich vs. [b]Miller [/b] - Champ versus former champ. Let's see if the IFL belt meant anything.
[b]Franca [/b]vs. Aurelio - Never really been impressed by Aurelio.
[b]Burkman [/b]vs. Sell - This is a must-win for both of these guys.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1565063' date='Oct 23 2008, 12.11']UFC 90 is in two days! Who are your picks?

[b]Silva [/b]vs. Côté - Obviously Silva is the huge favorite. I'm curious how well Dellagrotte prepares Côté.
[b]Alves [/b]vs. Koscheck - I want to see another wrestler get KO'd.
[b]Werdum [/b]vs. dos Santos - This is a tune-up fight so people don't completely forget Werdum while he sits on the shelf.
[b]Sherk[/b] vs. Griffin - This will be an excellent fight, but I give Sherk the slight edge. Griffin always looks great.
[b]Maynard [/b]vs. Clementi - Maynard is too big and strong. Unless he gets KO'd somehow, I see him taking a UD.

[b]Leites [/b]vs. McFedries - McFedries hasn't impressed me, and he's a late replacement.
[b]Fisher [/b]vs. Gugerty - Like Fisher a lot.
Horwich vs. [b]Miller [/b] - Champ versus former champ. Let's see if the IFL belt meant anything.
[b]Franca [/b]vs. Aurelio - Never really been impressed by Aurelio.
[b]Burkman [/b]vs. Sell - This is a must-win for both of these guys.[/quote]
That's crazy, we actually have the same exact picks for the main card. Except this:

Silva will defeat Côté by smiting. Thats right Patrick, Anderson will smite thee! I'll research the undercard and get my picks out later.

[quote name='EHK for Obama' post='1564899' date='Oct 23 2008, 09.49']Look, I've got my latent chauvinism as many long term members of this board can attest to. I disdain most female sports because they simply don't display the same amount of speed, skill, athleticism, and overall just aren't that exciting. But I watched the first CBS/EliteXC card and Gina Carano's fight was the fight of the night. (it may have had competition from the second to last fight, but that was cut short by DQ/injury I believe) It was brutal, it was bloody, fast paced, decent skill, speed, and power on display. And on the most recent card? Still one of the top fights of the night and quite entertaining.

Maybe this isn't the makings of an entire female spinoff sport. Maybe there aren't enough who can compete at that level. But they can absolutely make it watchable and entertaining on par with the men's cards. They have one certified star, an obvious big fight that alot of people want to see happen, and the possibility of building on that for the future. Its probably because my UFC exposure is limited due to not getting PPV's, but I'd rather see the Carano/Cyborg fight right now than alot of others in the sport. And I think it'd be a huge disappointment if it never happens and the women's MMA folds.

Carano should be given the same amount of shit a man would for not making weight. The rounds should be 5 minutes. I agree there. But don't let the shit die out just because Dana White is a walking Vince McMahon caricature and a big chunk of the UFC fanbase are a bunch of misogynist pricks. Somebody pick this shit up.[/quote]Well said.

And there are a number of sports that women compete well in and are acceptable to the mainstream. Soccer, tennis, track and field, gymnastics (more popular than men's), and golf. These are sports that, as Ooraq said, compensate well for women's lack of size, but the skill is there since many have years of training behind it. I am happy to see Gina Carano's fame bc she earned it through years of Muay Thai training and kickboxing matches. Her weight probems are a concern but shouldn't be a problem against Cyborg since they both walk around at similar weights and can both compet at 145 as opposed to 140. Yes this fight should happen and be the showcase for Women's MMA. It's nice to see that Affliction has an interest but unless they can get on CBS I'd prefer it to happen on Strikeforce since they are already established in Women's MMA and may be getting a deal with NBC to show live fight cards.

[Ser Barry]

I 2nd Oorag's picks.

[Ken Stone]

[b]Silva[/b] vs. Côté - I keep thinking to myself "How sweet would that have been to be the guy who picked Serra over GSP?" It would be pretty sweet. Still, I don't see how Cote wins this. This happens to be a nice style match up for the Spider, and that is ignoring the fact he is the best fighter in the world.

[b]Alves[/b] vs. Koscheck - Alves should come into this match a little bigger than Kos. It really is a tough pick because I can this fight going a couple different ways.

[b]Werdum[/b] vs. dos Santos - I really want to pick dos Santos because of the hype surrounding him. However Werdum is beating up pretty much everyone now, and is on a nice streak.

Sherk vs. [b]Griffin[/b] - It's really tempting to take stubby by L&P but I think Griffin will be able to handle him.

Maynard vs. [b]Clementi[/b] - I really like Maynard, but I also like Clementi's experience. Should be a good fight.

[b]Leites[/b] vs. McFedries - McFedries has been sucking so much lately. I'm surprised to see him on this card. I figured he was out of the UFC after losing in spectacular fashion on FN 15.

[b]Fisher[/b] vs. Gugerty - Fisher is a fun fighter. I really like his quick, crisp striking.

[b]Burkman[/b] vs. Sell - Burkman's been on a bad streak lately, which surprises me because he has all the potential in the world. I expect him to win this fight in dramatic fashion.

[GSP]

Well, Cote didn't pull of my predicted upset, but who in their right mind two weeks ago would see him showing a better account of himself and lasting longer than the likes of Hedno, Franklin, Lutter etc.? He did all right, and fuck those loosers booing a guy when you can blatantly see his ACL try to poke through the right side of his lower leg like that.

Silva looked the LEAST IMPRESSIVE we've seen him by far. He honestly looked apprehensive. The respect he showed Cote in the standup speeks volume. I think, contrary to the rest of the board and MMA world, that Cote is a bad matchup for him, and he knew it. Cote took a solid overhand left right to the grill and it phased him not. Add in a one punch knockout counter ability, and you can see why the Spider fought so conservatively. Cote was not winning the fight by any means before the leg blew, but he had three more rounds to try and eat one and respond with a jaw rattler. I honestly think he was getting into Silva's head. I liked the way he switched to match stances everytime Silva did.
OF course Cote is getting a rematch. Just curious to see who the Spider fights while Pat's ACL gets worked on.

Wow, didn't see the Werdun knockout coming. I never feel good making picks against a debuer.
You instinctually side with the guy you know, and for all you know your choice is objectively braindead, because you know nothing about the other.

I was hopin Koz would get KTFO and he appeared to be close. Hate the prick, but gotta give it to him for his chin. At least Alves won. I'm more interested in seeing G.S.P. deal with him than maul Koz in another one sided beat down.

Overall, good fights. Gotta jump over sights and read what happened in the undercard, besides McFedries quickly going to sleep.

[childe roland]

fans in chicago were killin me last night as was that idiotic ref with the slicked hair. the fans booed during the sherk andgriffin match and that was one of the more entertaining standup fights i've seen in a while. thought cote was fighting pretty well and took a knee to the face that finished franklin but cote just kept coming hope he recovers quickly

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='childe roland' post='1567766' date='Oct 26 2008, 13.22']fans in chicago were killin me last night as was that idiotic ref with the slicked hair. the fans booed during the sherk andgriffin match and that was one of the more entertaining standup fights i've seen in a while. thought cote was fighting pretty well and took a knee to the face that finished franklin but cote just kept coming hope he recovers quickly[/quote]

Didn't see the card, but given my limited experience watching MMA fights, alot of the fans seem to be ADD addled jackasses. If someone's not knocked out or if they're not on the ground pounding eachother within the first 30 second, the chorus of boos starts up.

[GSP]

Yeah,

MMA website buzz seems to be almost unanimous that UFC 90 had one of the most ignorant crowds to date. Booing Sherk/Griffin? It got, and deserved, fight of the night fer $#@!$# sakes.

[Ser Barry]

Cote was impressive and Silva wasn't. If Cote had back pedalled as much as Silva had then we would be tearing him to bits right now. It looked like he was goign for the one punch KO, I hope he isn't believing his own hype. Of course he is still an awesome fighter but he needs to do the same things as all other humans, find a rhythm, work openings, have a gameplan and take the KO if it offers itself. I was pretty surprised that he didn't pwn Cote when it went to the deck, it smacked of arrogance. He is on another level but if he continues to fight liek that then he will be brought to Earth quickly. Cote showed a chin, quick hands, great mental approach and belief in himself.

Kos actually made me grudgingly respect him. Alves looked very, very good.

Maynard did ok. Not sure why he had to apologise. He didn't just sit on top of a static situation, Clementi was constantly active and Maynard showed great grappling to control him. I thought it as a good fight.

Why did I pick Werdum? I never pick Werdum. I wouldn't pick Werdum against my mum. Grrr.

Griffin vs Sherk was entertaining stuff. Sherk showed why he has only ever been beaten by three of the best if all time. Others fight a similar style to him but he is just better at it.

Crowd = tools

[Analu]

[quote name='GSP' post='1567756' date='Oct 26 2008, 08.13']Well, Cote didn't pull of my predicted upset, but who in their right mind two weeks ago would see him showing a better account of himself and lasting longer than the likes of Hedno, Franklin, Lutter etc.? He did all right, and fuck those loosers booing a guy when you can blatantly see his ACL try to poke through the right side of his lower leg like that.

Silva looked the LEAST IMPRESSIVE we've seen him by far. He honestly looked apprehensive. The respect he showed Cote in the standup speeks volume. I think, contrary to the rest of the board and MMA world, that Cote is a bad matchup for him, and he knew it.[/quote]
Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression was that Anderson was just playing with Cote and could've ended it at any time. Really don't see what there is to get excited about on Cote's part. He kept boasting that he's the first in the UFC to last into the 3rd round against Silva, but that's only because the Spider [i]allowed [/i]him to last that long with all that dancing around nonsense. There was probably an accumulated total of one minute of fighting during the first two rounds.

Cote's knee didn't just happen to pop out, either. It's blatantly clear to me that Anderson has secretly been promoted to Jedi Master and used a Jedi mind-trick on that knee.


Not much else to add that hasn't already been said:
That ref was so irritating that I was hoping one of the fighters would intentionally miss his opponent with a head kick and knock that fucker out.

I kinda liked the Maynard-Clementi fight. Had the impression that Clementi was one move away from locking in a submission at any time.

Alves looked incredible. I thought his takedown D was being a little overrated by people after the Hughes fight, but this was against an in-his-prime world class wrestler and he absolutely stuffed them.

Chicago fans sucked.

Think that about covers it.

[benderschweiz]

I did think that Silva hit Cote with a couple shots that would have stopped most guys and was impressed with Cote's chin. Anderson was clearly toying with him most of the fight though. To bad the UFC will probably give Cote another shot now...it's really not worth using another of Silva's remaining fights on. I'd rather see rematches with Okami and Hendo first. The GSP fight would be cool too, though he might not have a belt after BJ and the Alves fight at 170 is looking great now too.