A Brand New MMA Thread

[Oorag]

Anyone who missed Dream can watch most of the fights here: [url="http://www.mmascraps.com/"]http://www.mmascraps.com/[/url]

Dream 6 ran long, so my DVR didn't catch all of it. This is the third MMA event that has run long. I should remember to record the programs after events as well from now on. Anyway, there were some pretty weird fights. I had Souza picked to go all the way. I don't think I've ever seen an upkick KO, though I know they've happened. Cro Cop's balls must have a bull's eye on them, but at any rate, he's done. He had nothing for Overeem, his ground game is still nonexistent, and his stand-up is useless if he has to back up the whole time for fear of takedowns.

I know most MMA fans love Bas Rutten, but he was kind of annoying me. Too much clowning for my taste, but then, I guess he did have about 5 hours to kill. I'm also not a big fan of the Japanese pageantry. Get to the fights already. Criminy, it took ages for some of those fighters just to get into the ring. I enjoy the fighters' walk to the cage in UFC events, but I started fast forwarding through just about everything in Dream.

[Ken Stone]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1529689' date='Sep 24 2008, 11.48']Cro Cop's balls must have a bull's eye on them, but at any rate, he's done.[/quote]

:lol:

I was thinking the same thing when I saw that. Made me wonder if Cro Cop is known among fighters as being racist towards blacks or something, so these guys are getting back at him.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[url="http://mma.fanhouse.com/2008/09/24/could-fedor-emelianenko-fight-on-cbs-affliction-elitexc-pairing/"]Could Fedor be fighting on CBS on Jan. 4 Affliction/EliteXC/Goldenboy card?[/url]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1529689' date='Sep 24 2008, 11.48']I know most MMA fans love Bas Rutten, but he was kind of annoying me. Too much clowning for my taste, but then, I guess he did have about 5 hours to kill.[/quote]
Bas has gone the entire arc of John Maddens commentating career in 1/4 the time.

[Ken Stone]

[url="http://mmajunkie.com/news/12853/elitexc-affliction-collaboration-could-be-prelude-to-fedor-vs-kimbo-slice.mma"]Fedor vs Slice on CBS????[/url]

:rofl:

This idea is completely laughable. Slice is the only thing that is keeping EliteXC floating. There is no way they put him in the ring with Fedor.

[Oorag]

[quote name='Ken Stone' post='1531211' date='Sep 25 2008, 08.55']This idea is completely laughable. Slice is the only thing that is keeping EliteXC floating. There is no way they put him in the ring with Fedor.[/quote]
No kidding. That match-up makes no kind of sense. I can't believe that professional MMA journalists are even considering this. There is no way in hell that EliteXC is going to kill their golden goose. Hell, I was surprised they were willing to pit him against James Thompson. They will continue to throw him Tank Abbotts and Ken Shamrocks for as long as possible. Even "hardcore" fans who know Fedor won't want to see him face a rookie like Kimbo. They want him to fight Couture, Barnett, Arlovski, or someone of that caliber. Fedor has fought enough freakshows and cans for one career.

[Ser Barry]

Or, they have realised that Slice can not carry the banner for the organisation. He is not good enough and it is too late for him to start learning new tricks. As soon as they put him up against legitimate opposition he is going to get found out and that would be the end of their golden goose. How about they use the fame of Slice to give promotional beef to the quality of Fedor? Have Fedor beat Slice in 5 seconds on CBS and suddenly you have Fedor a big step closer towards genuine stardom in the US. Slice will still pull in viewers due to his style and demeanour but with Fedor you can make real matches and have a real claim to having the world's greatest fighter on your roster. The pressure then comes of making Slice something he isn't and you can continue to milk him. Probably feed him some more cans and set up as repeat fight and make even more money.

I don't think the timing is right now as they can still string the public along with Slice for a couple more fights but every fight is a risk. Slice has the profile and Fedor has the talent. Who would you feel safer building your rep on?

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Oorag' post='1531307' date='Sep 25 2008, 11.58']No kidding. That match-up makes no kind of sense. I can't believe that professional MMA journalists are even considering this. There is no way in hell that EliteXC is going to kill their golden goose. Hell, I was surprised they were willing to pit him against James Thompson. They will continue to throw him Tank Abbotts and Ken Shamrocks for as long as possible. Even "hardcore" fans who know Fedor won't want to see him face a rookie like Kimbo. They want him to fight Couture, Barnett, Arlovski, or someone of that caliber. Fedor has fought enough freakshows and cans for one career.[/quote]
Barryiah gets it. And I bet Barack does too!

They'll do it if they realize that Affliction will have to carry them in the near future. This partnership will likely lead to a merger down the road and Affliction will want to build Fedor's name in a big way. The quickest way to do that is in a fight against Kimbo. Not at all dissimilar to the UFC pitting Couture and Lesnar in a fight. It's all about building interest and selling PPV buys. Fedor fans won't care bc having Fedor beat Kimbo will get him more fans and more notoriety in this country than anything else they can do. I don't get why this doesn't make [b][i]business[/i][/b] sense. Put your MMA-fan hat off to the side for a second and this might make perfect sense.

That said, it's also a risk. Doing the Fedor vs Kimbo fight to soon and you risk Kimbo fans not converting to Fedor afterwards and simply walking away from the sport. So I don't think that they do this thing right away. I think you get Kimbo another 5 to 7 wins on his record to look more legit, then you feed him to Fedor. Simultaneously you have the marketing guys who are handling Fedor now keep building his rep. But considering that Affliction is going to eventually merge with Elite XC and you have a marketing success that is Kimbo and a legit MMA legend like Fedor on your roster and you are trying to compete with the juggernaut that is the UFC, [i][b]not [/b][/i]making this fight eventually would be the dumbest decision made since the deregulation of Wall Street.

[Ser Barry]

The only thing I can say Horus is that making a plan for 5 - 7 fights time, say 2 -3 years, is way too risky. This sport moves so quickly that even the UFC only really plan one fight ahead and therefore work on a 6 - 9 month timescale and their stability is off the charts when it comes to their competitors. If this is the plan then I reckon a Kimbo vs Fedor fight takes place in 2009.

Of course what makes me laugh then is that Fedor's US exclusivity with Affliction runs out and Dana buys him.

[Oorag]

Fedor-Kimbo isn't comparable to Lesnar-Couture because people are actually talking about who would win that match-up. Neither fighter will be embarrassed by the outcome of that fight. Lesnar will retain his star power and won't suffer too much for getting beaten by a legend, while Couture's whole career has proven that he can lose and still be popular. The fight is a win-win for the UFC.

On the other hand, Kimbo is relevant only so long as he continues winning. As soon as he loses, mainstream audiences will lose interest, and they certainly won't suddenly become Fedor fans. Fedor is the anti-Kimbo. He isn't American, doesn't speak English, doesn't look cool or intimidating, and has no pop culture penetration. Fedor needs to be marketed in a completely different way than Kimbo. He'll have to go the Anderson Silva route, by effortlessly winning in front of American audiences again and again, until he cultivates the image of an unbeatable juggernaut. Even that said, Silva is apparently still the UFC champion with the lowest drawing power.

[Ser Barry]

So you can think if a better way of getting Fedor a win in front of an American audience than him fighting Kimbo on CBS? I'm intrigued. Please share.

The way I see it is they face Kimbo losing to another nobody or they face him losing to Fedor who can actually claim to be the best in the world. He is going to lose. Who would you rather he lost to? It is not a magic trick that will suddenly get Fedor over but it is a big step in the right direction.

Also, what the hell does the way Kimbo is marketed got to do with it? Have they got one marketing man with one idea? Get Fedor some heat and market him as Ivan Drago, the heat is the tricky part.

Anderson's drawing power is hard to judge due to the dearth of marketable fighters for him to face but I would agree. Then let's look at who he is up against, has the UFC ever had so many marketable champions? It shows that Joe Silve is very good at his job.

[Oorag]

[quote]So you can think if a better way of getting Fedor a win in front of an American audience than him fighting Kimbo on CBS?[/quote]
Give Fedor a fight with another name HW and put Kimbo on the same card versus someone of Shamrock's fame and caliber. That way you get Kimbo's audience showing up and getting a first taste of Fedor's power without sacrificing Kimbo himself. Even if you WERE going to pit Fedor against Kimbo, you should at least give Fedor an introductory fight first, so he's not a total unknown to the mainstream viewer. Better for Kimbo to fight "that Russian who totally stomped XXX last December" than "some guy who's got a great record I guess."

[quote]The way I see it is they face Kimbo losing to another nobody or they face him losing to Fedor who can actually claim to be the best in the world. He is going to lose. Who would you rather he lost to? It is not a magic trick that will suddenly get Fedor over but it is a big step in the right direction.[/quote]
They can play it safe and put him up against cans like Tank and Shamrock to milk him for as long as they can, or they can sacrifice his proven drawing power on the hopes that some of it will rub off on another fighter. The latter sounds risky and wasteful to me. I'd rather build two powerhouse draws than feed one to the other.

[quote]Also, what the hell does the way Kimbo is marketed got to do with it? Have they got one marketing man with one idea? Get Fedor some heat and market him as Ivan Drago, the heat is the tricky part.[/quote]
They can try all they want, but without the youtube, TV show, talk show, movie, and commercial exposure that Kimbo gets, Fedor will never be as big a star. Being unbeatable won't be enough for Fedor. Matt Hughes had more title defences than anyone at his time, but he didn't come close to the popularity that Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz had, with their more marketable appearances and behavior.

[Ser Barry]

Your making good points and I hear you. I did say that I don't think the fight should happen until they have milked Kimbo dry and they have to put him against someone decent. I am not advocating them fighting in their next fight but I do think it makes sense along the line I just don't know how long it is until Kimbo loses. James Thompson very nearly managed it and that should say a lot. I think they need to time it right to give Fedor maximum pop as Kimbo is not the man to build an organisation on in the long term.

In fact thinking about it, how about Arlovski* beats Kimbo, Fedor beats Arlovski and then Fedor beats Kimbo? Kimbo could ride out one loss probably and Fedor gets twice the exposure.

*Or whoever their biggest name decent HW is. It could even be Ortiz seeing as how you mention him.

[Ser Barry]

Does anyone actually care about the Shamrock/Kimbo fight? Of course that won't stop us all from watching.

The only OTHER thing to be said about Saturday night is;
[size=6][color="#FF0000"]COME ON SEMTEX[/color][/size]

[benderschweiz]

I'm watching in the hope that Arlovski will hit Nelson with a big bodyshot.

[Ser Barry]

[quote name='benderschweiz' post='1536871' date='Sep 30 2008, 14.10']I'm watching in the hope that Arlovski will hit Nelson with a big bodyshot.[/quote]

And presumably lose a hand.

[GSP]

Read a while ago Rampage is going to be 'B.A. Barrachus' in the upcoming A - Team re make. Should be hilarious.

[Oorag]

EliteXC: Heat is this Saturday on CBS. I didn't notice it until today, but at some point they added an Arlovski/Nelson fight, so even if you don't buy into the Kimbo/Carano hype, you'll get at least one fight worth watching.

[Ser Barry]

[quote name='Barryck Obama' post='1536793' date='Sep 30 2008, 12.12'][size=6][color="#FF0000"]COME ON SEMTEX[/color][/size][/quote]


[quote name='Oorag' post='1540602' date='Oct 2 2008, 22.12']EliteXC: Heat is this Saturday on CBS. I didn't notice it until today, but at some point they added an Arlovski/Nelson fight, so even if you don't buy into the Kimbo/Carano hype, you'll get at least one fight worth watching.[/quote]

2 decent fights.

[Ken Stone]

[url="http://mmajunkie.com/news/12928/shoving-matches-naked-gina-carano-heat-up-elitexc-weigh-ins.mma"]Fiasco's at the EliteXC weigh-in[/url]

First off I would like to know where I apply for the job of holding the towels in front of the naked Gina Corrano. It's pretty obvious all those guys are taking peeks.

Second enough with the hooliganism EliteXC. When you two stare-downs going awry is too many. It's starting to lose it's luster.

[childe roland]

the night for me is highlighted by those i want to lose. would love to see kimbo lose and i would love to see shields lose also.