NBA

[dits]

What the hell's wrong with the Celtics? They seem to have lost their mojo and that veneer of invincibility they had a the start of the season. Meanwhile Cleveland and the Lakers have been amazing.

[Young Wolf]

And Memphis signs Miles.

*waits for the fireworks*

YW

[add-on]

[quote name='add-on' post='1643257' date='Jan 9 2009, 17.30']Big game tonight. Pretty excited about this one. Champs are in a skid, everybody's ready to stick the fork in. We'll see how they respond.[/quote]
Forgot I had a league game to go to, so I didn't get to see this one. Looking pretty bleak for the champs at the moment. Still, I think I feel more like TSL than I do ready to call them done. The good thing is that this bleak point is coming in the middle of the season with plenty of time to turn it around. The bad thing about this bleak point is that no matter what point of the season it is, they still have huge holes on the bench and a tired starting 5. We'll have to see what Ainge can magick up.

And yes, LeBron is playing his mind out, and, yes, I'm hating every minute.

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1645092' date='Jan 11 2009, 19.13']And Memphis signs Miles.

*waits for the fireworks*

YW[/quote]
I love this storyline. It's so bizarre.

[add-on]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1645356' date='Jan 12 2009, 00.12']What is sketch about the story is whether or not someone (like Memphis) wants to screw us or not....or do they [i]really[/i] think it's in their best on-court interest to sign this guy?[/quote]
I know! That's what's so nuts! What's the motivation here? You can't [i]really[/i] want this guy on your team. You just can't.


[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1639260' date='Jan 6 2009, 07.09']Exception: the Dream.[/quote]
Good catch, Exa. Hakeem was definitely the exception to that rule. Unfortunately, I think we agree that Dwight Howard is no Hakeem Olajuwon.

[Exa Inova]

[quote name='add-on' post='1643257' date='Jan 10 2009, 00.30']....

The question is, who do they get. I like Miller for them. Can hit a shot, but also drives and slashes the lane -- not something they have right now. Plus, I still remember his buzzer-beater to take the Gators past Butler. On the right team, with opportunity, he could transform into that clutch player. That deal could happen.

Michael Redd would be bad. Too much of a jumpshooter, needs too many shots.

Vince Carter is an interesting idea for this team. Feel like he could realize his potential on this squad. He wouldn't have to be the #1 star/option on the team, which is nice for him. In the past, he has shown the ability to respond in big situations. He's also shown the ability to curl into a ball and wish for it all to go away. Think with the right situation, the right Vince will come to play. The Magic would have to be giving something else to NJ to make the salaries work, I think, so I'm not sure how that turns out exactly.

Anybody else with an idea?




Big game tonight. Pretty excited about this one. Champs are in a skid, everybody's ready to stick the fork in. We'll see how they respond.[/quote]
You like Miller and Redd dont you ;)

I think the Magic need a slasher. They dont have a wing who takes it to the hole on a regular basis to draw fouls and get to the line. They have plenty of firepower and you will be hardpressed to find a team with more shooters (Toronto maybe).
That said the need a player like Magette. Since Corey is locked up they should look for similar players. The first name to pop up in my head is Tony Allen followed by Ricky Davis (Im not selecting on character) Iguodala (locked up too) and the like.

Carter rarely drives to the hoop so I wouldnt go after him.

[quote]What is sketch about the story is whether or not someone (like Memphis) wants to screw us or not....or do they really think it's in their best on-court interest to sign this guy?[/quote]

[quote]I know! That's what's so nuts! What's the motivation here? You can't really want this guy on your team. You just can't.[/quote]

Its not that strange. The guy CAN play. They'll probably pay him league minimum so the money wouldnt be a problem. He is a few years older so maybe he has his head on straight now.

Maybe they're bribing Portland (give us a good deal or we'll sign Miles and play him)

Miles could play himself in the picture and they could sign and trade his butt for better player ( a la Tim Thomas on the Suns)

lastly, the NBA is full of knucklehead still with contract. This is the league where Jerome James get a fat check, Marbury is still getting paid, Rickey Davis is employed, Tinsley is still under contract, Ron Artest and Stephen Jax still shoot hoops so why not give Miles a chance? He isnt nearly as crazy as Artes or Jax. He'll work harder than James, get paid less than Marbury, isnt nearly as great a cancer as Tinsley and shaved his sideburns before Davis did.

On the C's:
More than last year it shows that their bench is thin. The drop of last year wasnt as appearent as this year because Rondo and Perkins were worse. That way the drop of from Rondo to House to Pruitt wasnt so big. Now Rondo makes those 2 look like bench warmers. Same with Perkins. Powe and Big Baby havent progressed as much as Perkins.
The Big 3 were running on adrinaline the entire last season. Now the C's were planning to ease of on the B3 to keep um fresh but teams gear up when facing the C's, the bench isnt really good without Posey and PJ Brown. They've become smaller, lost a great defender and another 3 point shooter.
Last year they could go small: Garnett at center, Posey and Pierce at forward and House and Allen at guard. Garnett could draw opposing centers outside leaving room for Pierce to drive or post up and everybody could fill the basket from anywhere.
Their defense wouldnt suffer much because its build around swarming the lane and helping on everything.
This year they cant do this because they miss a 3 point shooter and wing defender. Tony Allen is no Posey and more over, cant still be the man on the second unit.

In the end its still early. even if they go .500 from now on they still finish with 50+ wins. Enough to win the atlantic division.


Cavs:
Bron is awesome but watching the Cavs play the Wiz and the C's I still saw too much James getting the ball at the top and starting from there. That remains a losing strategy. Also before pulling away (and that disgreasefull hack a wallace) James did everything and the rest stood around or missed shots.
It still is a good strategy to turn James into a jump shooter.

Quick on the Lakers and other teams:
Although they beat the C's Im not sold on them. If Bynum is the answer we should ask the question again. He had nice numbers last game but up until now he isnt the man to bring home the beacon.

Saw Phx beat the clips last night. Or better yet: saw the clips beat themselves with bonehead plays. Phx is dangerous but not more than that. They still give up points in a hurry. Amare is a jerk.

SA is like Phx dangerous but no sigar. Utah's season is almost lost. They'll finish with a decent record but a quick exit will be their fate. Detroit is oh so quetly piling up wins, nothing spectacular, losing once in every 4 or 5 games.
Is McGrady still injured? Rockets are gearing up to break our hearts once again.
Portland desperately needs home court if they hope to advance to the second round.

[add-on]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1645513' date='Jan 12 2009, 05.27']You like Miller and Redd dont you ;)[/quote]
Not necessarily. They're just two of the names I constantly hear being thrown around so I try to keep them included.

[quote]I think the Magic need a slasher. They dont have a wing who takes it to the hole on a regular basis to draw fouls and get to the line.[/quote]
I agree. I also agree that Magette would fit nicely for them. Too bad. I think Miller could fill this role for them honestly. Other than that...I dunno. The Mavs are apparently shopping Howard, but I don't know who the Magic would have to give up to get him. Since the Mavs still want to contend this year, they won't be content with expiring contracts and a pick or two.

The Bulls are shopping Larry Hughes, but there's no reason to invite cancer into your home, and he's more of a jump shooter (of bad jumpshots) these days anyways.

[quote]Carter rarely drives to the hoop so I wouldnt go after him.[/quote]
I remain intrigued by the possibility of Carter being shipped to a contender.





[quote]Its not that strange. [b]The guy CAN play[/b]. They'll probably pay him league minimum so the money wouldnt be a problem. He is a few years older so maybe he has his head on straight now.[/quote]
There you are! You'd been making way too much sense lately. Good to see you back on the crackpipe. :P

[quote]Maybe they're bribing Portland (give us a good deal or we'll sign Miles and play him)[/quote]
I think you mean blackmailing.


[quote]lastly, the NBA is full of knucklehead still with contract.[/quote]
Right, but this knucklehead with very limited upside comes with a litigation battle. Worth it? I doubt it, unless you've got some ulterior motives.

[quote]On the C's:
In the end its still early. even if they go .500 from now on they still finish with 50+ wins. Enough to win the atlantic division.[/quote]
yeah, but it's starting to look like they need to pick up some help to get back to the Finals.

[quote]Cavs:
It still is a good strategy to turn James into a jump shooter.[/quote]
And it's still a difficult strategy to execute. Agree though, it's the best option.

[quote]Quick on the Lakers and other teams:
Although they beat the C's Im not sold on them. If Bynum is the answer we should ask the question again. He had nice numbers last game but up until now he isnt the man to bring home the beacon.[/quote]
The thing is that Bynum is not the answer. The answer is their depth. The idea is that Kobe will play a good game no matter what, and you just need one other player to play a really good game with him. In their win against the C's, Gasol stepped up. The thought process is that if Gasol doesn't step up, Bynum will. If Bynum has a down game, Odom will step up. If Odom isn't performing, the rest of their dangerous bench (Vujacic, Ariza, Radman) fill in. If those guys aren't getting it done, Fisher has one of those games where he explodes.

It's a team game, baby.



[quote]Saw Phx beat the clips last night. Or better yet: saw the clips beat themselves with bonehead plays. Phx is dangerous but not more than that. They still give up points in a hurry. Amare is a jerk.[/quote]
No respect for the Suns right now. They're not going anywhere this year, though I love Richardson on that team. And I will take that jerk over here in Chicago.

[quote]SA is like Phx dangerous but no sigar.[/quote]
Actually San Antonio is looking good, IMO. The only challenge for LA in the West (unless Houston or NO gets their shit together)

[quote]Utah's season is almost lost.[/quote]

Poor Carlos. Come to Chicago, Carlos. We're civilized here. :)

(Sorry, AE :P)

[quote]Detroit is oh so quetly piling up wins, nothing spectacular, losing once in every 4 or 5 games.[/quote]

Shhhhhh. Don't talk about it.

[size=1]go ai![/size]

[quote]Is McGrady still injured? Rockets are gearing up to break our hearts once again.[/quote]

Is McGrady ever not injured? The fun thing is, it looks like the Rockets are shopping him. Who takes this man on his last legs with his poor me attitude? Who falls for that? Somebody will.

[quote]Portland desperately needs home court if they hope to advance to the second round.[/quote]
Don't see it happening this year. NO looked good at LA and I don't see Denver giving up the Northwest.

[AutumnEvenings]

[quote name='add-on' post='1645938' date='Jan 12 2009, 11.15']Poor Carlos. Come to Chicago, Carlos. We're civilized here. :)

(Sorry, AE :P)[/quote]
Don't worry about it--you can have him. He folded in last year's play-offs and while I wasn't completely down on him, I was pretty disgusted with the timing of his announcement that he wouldn't be re-signing. I don't know that his knee surgery actually fixed anything--he was missing an awful lot of games even before this season. Don't get me wrong, I'm eager for him to be healthy again and want him to finish out the season with us, but I won't be [i]nearly[/i] as sad over his departure as I was with Fisher. ( :cry: ) I'm hoping that Memo doesn't opt out and please god let Millsap resign with us. We'd have that 16.5 million from Boozer to sweeten the deal...

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to say our 'season is almost over'. I mean, I'm trying to think of a single game since pre-season in which all of our starters have actually [i]started[/i]. I'm drawing a blank although it's possible there was one on our road trip where Deron came back (too soon), before Boozer's injury, and before Memo's dad. But like I said, I'm not at all sure. But despite that, we're seeing pretty good stuff, and it's getting [i]better[/i]. Millsap's double-double streak only ended because he barely played (he banged his 'non-injured' knee with another player and lost minutes in the first half that way, and then in the 2nd half we were kicking so much ass that it would have been insulting to put him back in). Kosta Koufus is becoming a reliable bench player, and Price really handled AI well and will most likely be earning more minutes. We're one of the deepest teams in the league--if not [i]the[/i] deepest--and are gaining confidence in various line-ups and learning how to stay out of foul trouble. (Well, Harpring still needs to work on that, but I love him anyway.) I'm not saying we'll take the West, but I think we won't break down in the playoffs. It's also worth noting that we've beaten Portland twice and Denver once, meaning we've taken [i]all[/i] our division games so far this year. We've only lost 4 conference games--one to LA, one to Houston coming off a back-to-back and at the end of a long road trip, another back-to-back against Phoenix, and then a no-excuses against SA--and all four of those were road trips. Yes, we suck against San Antonio and need work against the Lakers, but the other teams in the West won't just roll over us.

[add-on]

Feel like Slurktan's and Jaime's Magic posts need to be answered individually since I was blatantly pot stirring.

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1633073' date='Dec 29 2008, 12.11']I like the Magic and think they may end up being number 2 in the East if not 1 if Boston has a drop off. However while they play more defense than teams like Phoenix and Dalls in the past they still rely on the 3 to win. That is not a good strategy for playoff basketball. Sure they could dump it in to Howard alot but he turns it over too much for that to be a game winning strategy. It's what happened last year against Detroit.[/quote]
This is hard to argue with. But I think it's a mistake (and my mistake really, since I did it first) to compare Orlando to Phoenix/Dallas/old Sacramento because they [i]do[/i] play good defense (not just more defense, good defense), but because they also have a reliable low post threat on offense. I agree, you can't often go to that guy in the clutch, but that doesn't change the fact that having him changes the complexion of every game he's in. I think if Chris Webber, great as he was for a few years, had been a true post player (instead of settling for so many jumpshots) the Kings would have had a much better shot at beating the Lakers.

I don't think it's correct to say the Magic rely on the 3 ball to win. They shoot an awful lot of goddamn threes, this is true. But they rely on the combination of an elite low post presence with an elite group of perimeter threats. There's a difference, IMO. It's not as if they're just running and gunning and jacking three's ala the D'Antoni Suns.

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1635649' date='Jan 1 2009, 15.01']Every team since the dawn of time that has ever won a championship has had that clutch presence. Even Shaq (and make no mistake, Shaq at his prime was significantly more dominant than Howard is) would never have won a title without having Kobe there in the clutch.[/quote]

Oh believe me, I'm right there with ya.


[quote]Lebron showed me that against the best defense on the planet in game 7 of the Celtics series, one with excellent perimeter defenders, the defensive player of the year behind that, and behind him a secondary, physical shotblocker,[/quote]
A series between the C's and Cavs would be so fundamentally different than a series between the Cavs and the Magic that I don't think it's really right to compare the two.

Plus, let's not forget that LeBron was bottled up fairly well for the first three or four games of that second round series last year. Granted, he finished spectacularly.

[quote]but as the Wizards have learned all to well, that just leads to a constant 4 on 3 fast break for the other Cavs, and now there's enough of a good supporting cast around Lebron to kill you all day with that.[/quote]

And yet, the Wiz have managed to play Bron Bron very well even this year when they suck so terribly. That says something to me.


[quote]There's no way to guarantee yourself a defensive stop against the Cavs for that reason. Turkoglu/Nelson/Lewis...whoever...that's an extreme competitive disadvantage in close games. And playoff series are decided in those close games.[/quote]

I can't argue with you here. The Magic are at a disadvantage in clutch situations. Hedo and Lewis are more spot up shooters, though Turkoglu (as Exa noted) has shown some flashes in the regular season in these clutch situations. As far as Nelson goes, you worry about his size (ie ability to drive, kick, create his own shot when defenses are keying on him) in key situations.

[quote]I don't see Orlando as having the kind of guys who make shots with hands in their face.[/quote]
You lose me here. Two of their best shooters -- Turkoglu and Lewis -- have the advantage of being able to shoot [i]over[/i] any hands that might like to be in their faces.

[quote]The difference is, only one can win without one.[/quote]
We'll see.


[quote name='add-on' post='1645938' date='Jan 12 2009, 12.15']The Mavs are apparently shopping Howard, but I don't know who the Magic would have to give up to get him. Since the Mavs still want to contend this year, they won't be content with expiring contracts and a pick or two.[/quote]
I'm becoming enamored with this idea. I think the Magic should swap Turkoglu for Howard. At the beginning of the year that would sound ridiculous, but everybody on the Magic is looking good this year, and Howard has been a bit disappointing for the Mavs.

For the Magic, Howard fulfills that slasher/can go to the bucket during crunch time and make a big play role that Orlando is currently missing. He can also hit a shot from outside. For whatever reason, he hasn't meshed with the current incarnation of the Mavs team, but that doesn't mean he won't flourish again elsewhere. Plus, with all the offcourt garbage that's gone on, a change of scenery may be just what he needs.

For the Mavs, Turk can fill a nice role and give them some production they've been missing from Howard this year. His consistent scoring will help take the pressure off of Dirk and Jet.

This deal probably wouldn't work straight up, so I'd look for the Magic to dump Bogans along with Turkoglu. Courteney Lee's been playing well enough for the Magic to step up and assume Bogans' role full time. Meanwhile, Bogans gives the Mavs a valuable perimeter defender.

The problem you have to worry about if you're the Magic is chemistry. You've been playing so well together this far into the season, it will be hard to justify a trade like this to teammates and fans. And how will Howard mesh? He's turned out to be a bit of a misfit in Dallas, so there's a worry there. Still, if I seriously want a chance at the title in Orlando this year, I deal for Howard if I've got the opportunity.

[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1646154' date='Jan 12 2009, 14.39']Don't worry about it--you can have him.[/quote]
Why thank you. I can only hope your GM will be so obliging.

[quote]Anyway, I don't think it's fair to say our 'season is almost over'. I mean, I'm trying to think of a single game since pre-season in which all of our starters have actually [i]started[/i]. I'm drawing a blank although it's possible there was one on our road trip where Deron came back (too soon), before Boozer's injury, and before Memo's dad. But like I said, I'm not at all sure. But despite that, we're seeing pretty good stuff, and it's getting [i]better[/i]. Millsap's double-double streak only ended because he barely played (he banged his 'non-injured' knee with another player and lost minutes in the first half that way, and then in the 2nd half we were kicking so much ass that it would have been insulting to put him back in). Kosta Koufus is becoming a reliable bench player, and Price really handled AI well and will most likely be earning more minutes. We're one of the deepest teams in the league--if not [i]the[/i] deepest--and are gaining confidence in various line-ups and learning how to stay out of foul trouble. (Well, Harpring still needs to work on that, but I love him anyway.) I'm not saying we'll take the West, but I think we won't break down in the playoffs. It's also worth noting that we've beaten Portland twice and Denver once, meaning we've taken [i]all[/i] our division games so far this year. We've only lost 4 conference games--one to LA, one to Houston coming off a back-to-back and at the end of a long road trip, another back-to-back against Phoenix, and then a no-excuses against SA--and all four of those were road trips. Yes, we suck against San Antonio and need work against the Lakers, but the other teams in the West won't just roll over us.[/quote]
I have to admit, I've been pretty impressed with what the Jazz have been able to accomplish without their two big stars for most of the year. Still, even when fully healthy, I can't see them beating the Spurs or the Lakers in a 7 game series. Can you?

[AutumnEvenings]

Spurs, no. Not unless we make some serious psychological changes. We don't match up that poorly against them, so I'm pretty sure about 70% of our continued loss is mental.

Lakers...possibly. God, I hate the Lakers. Fisher played very well in our system and knows how to beat it. Gasol is just huge. Bryant is a full-time job for who we match him with, but we're getting a lot better at zone (and D in general--we were pretty appalling last year), so while we couldn't stop him, we might be able to slow him down and take advantage of that. We're deep and can shake things up. I'm reserving judgement till I see us play them at home this year. But no, I don't think we could beat them. Which is why we need to finish in 6th or better--I don't want us seeing the Lakers or the Spurs in round one.

But I think we can do that--finish ahead of...whoever it may be. Dallas/Phoenix/Houston I'd say for the 9th, 8th, and 7th slots, though with injuries and the race being so tight, it's possible Denver and Portland are in there too. I haven't entirely crossed off us being division champs, after all.

Anyway, I wasn't so much arguing that we'd take it all, but just that our season is far from over.

[add-on]

Fair enough. I agree, I think your playoff hopes are definitely still alive. Whatever happens, that's going to be an exciting division race, with three quality teams at the top. When are you guys supposed to be at full strength?

Good to see you back around these parts, btw.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='add-on' post='1646185' date='Jan 12 2009, 16.06']This is hard to argue with. But I think it's a mistake (and my mistake really, since I did it first) to compare Orlando to Phoenix/Dallas/old Sacramento because they [i]do[/i] play good defense (not just more defense, good defense), but because they also have a reliable low post threat on offense. I agree, you can't often go to that guy in the clutch, but that doesn't change the fact that having him changes the complexion of every game he's in. I think if Chris Webber, great as he was for a few years, had been a true post player (instead of settling for so many jumpshots) the Kings would have had a much better shot at beating the Lakers.

I don't think it's correct to say the Magic rely on the 3 ball to win. They shoot an awful lot of goddamn threes, this is true. But they rely on the combination of an elite low post presence with an elite group of perimeter threats. There's a difference, IMO. It's not as if they're just running and gunning and jacking three's ala the D'Antoni Suns.[/quote]

I agree they aren't the run and gun Suns or Mavs and quite frankly that's why they won't win in the playoffs. If they had that style with the Magic's D they would be well nigh unstoppable. Instead their focuse is on whether or not Nelson can break down his defender. If he can, then the Orlando shooters are going to live it up as they can just sit as a wing defender has to come help because if Howard's man leaves or even fronts him, then it's two points for Orlando. If he can't then they lose because nobody else can create off the dribble reliantly. Turk can [i]sometimes[/i] but he's just as likely to dribble off his own foot. Lewis can sometimes if the mood strikes. He should be able to all the time but he just isn't that kind of player. They get nothing from the 2 spot if their penetrate and kick game doesn't work. And you can't run a low post offense because Howard is a turnover waiting to happen if he holds the ball longer than a second.

I like them but I don't think they can win deep in the playoffs. I actually think they will get the number 1 east seed though so a win against the Sixers or Raps in the first round and they get a bit closer.

[Exa Inova]

AutumnEvenings

[quote]Good to see you back around these parts, btw.[/quote]

You and your avatar.

[quote]Anyway, I don't think it's fair to say our 'season is almost over'.[/quote]
I meant the stuff you wrote after this sentence. Injuries and other stuff have derailed your season. Utah was always in the thick of things because they won their division. Now I dont think they will so no home court in the first round (that rule has been altered anyway). Even if the Jazz make the play off it probably will as a 7 or 8 seed earning them a quick exit against LA or SA, 2 teams that have got Utah number for the last couple of years.

[quote]We're one of the deepest teams in the league--if not the deepest--and are gaining confidence in various line-ups and learning how to stay out of foul trouble.[/quote]
Your dept will help during the regular season and will win you a couple of games but in the play offs dept isnt a big factor. because there is no back 2 back you dont have to spare your starters and the 3 guys coming of the bench. Rotations shorten. Utah problem is that their center is their best 3 point shooter leaving only Boozer as a post up treath. Sure Deron can stroke it but you need 3 point shooting from the wing player, either your 2 or 3.

[quote]A series between the C's and Cavs would be so fundamentally different than a series between the Cavs and the Magic that I don't think it's really right to compare the two[/quote]
absolutly agree.

[quote]And yet, the Wiz have managed to play Bron Bron very well even this year when they suck so terribly. That says something to me.[/quote]
Dont think to much of it. They just match up good or fairly good against teams like the Cavs and the C's. Thats because these teams load up on one side and can be beaten by a drive and kick followed by an extra pass. The Wiz need to shoor a high percetage but they can keep up. Their perimiter players (Wiz) are very creative one on one.

[quote]I'm becoming enamored with this idea. I think the Magic should swap Turkoglu for Howard. At the beginning of the year that would sound ridiculous, but everybody on the Magic is looking good this year, and Howard has been a bit disappointing for the Mavs.

For the Magic, Howard fulfills that slasher/can go to the bucket during crunch time and make a big play role that Orlando is currently missing. He can also hit a shot from outside. For whatever reason, he hasn't meshed with the current incarnation of the Mavs team, but that doesn't mean he won't flourish again elsewhere. Plus, with all the offcourt garbage that's gone on, a change of scenery may be just what he needs.[/quote]

Aside from cap issues it could work....for the Magic at least. They've got enough shooters left. But they are better served going after a slasher 2 than 3. As a Bulls man you should offer Hughes.

For Dallas it would mean the add another Nowitski. A big white shooter, who, on occasion can put it on the floor. They would lose a lot of speed in transition and their defense wouldnt be served either if not because both are 4s (hedo and dirk) and Dallas is giving up a 3.

[quote]But I think we can do that--finish ahead of...whoever it may be. Dallas/Phoenix/Houston I'd say for the 9th, 8th, and 7th slots,[/quote]
I think all other team would be ok with it if you would go after the 9th slot. ;)

[Slurktan]

So add-on, I'm curious as to what you think about the latest rumour mill action between the Bulls and Raps. I actually wouldn't mind the deal if they did it a straight two for one. JO has actually looked good this year when he's played but Bargnani seems to have turned the corner so JO needs to be moved now on our end and I like the Nocc. Hughes is..... eh but at least he can defend.

[add-on]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1646510' date='Jan 12 2009, 18.26']I agree they aren't the run and gun Suns or Mavs and quite frankly that's why they won't win in the playoffs. If they had that style with the Magic's D they would be well nigh unstoppable.[/quote]

God, you're tricksy.

[quote]Instead their focuse is on whether or not Nelson can break down his defender. If he can, then the Orlando shooters are going to live it up as they can just sit as a wing defender has to come help because if Howard's man leaves or even fronts him, then it's two points for Orlando.[/quote]
Disagree that the focus of their offense is Nelson breaking his man down. It's Howard in the post. The good thing about their team is that all their tall perimeter players make entry passes easier.

Honestly, if you're first two options on offense are Jameer breaking down the D or getting it into Howard in the post, then letting things happen from there...then I like your chances on O, regardless of what team is D-ing you up.



[quote]I like them but I don't think they can win deep in the playoffs. I actually think they will get the number 1 east seed though so a win against the Sixers or Raps in the first round and they get a bit closer.[/quote]
We'll see how things continue for them. They've just come off of a pretty impressive week (sweeping a home and home vs. the Hawks and beating the Spurs to sweep that season series), but January is not an easy month for them. They go to LA, Denver and Miami, and have to host Boston and Cleveland. We'll see what this month brings, then re-evaluate.

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1646982' date='Jan 13 2009, 07.18']Utah stuff[/quote]
I dunno, man. They are building some nice momentum, and their top two competitors have issues. Carmelo's out for a month or so with that fracture and Portland has to deal with this Miles issue.

For Utah, Milsap has been a great find and looks ready to permanently take over for Boozer, while D Williams looks back and healthy. They'll probably deal Boozer for some extra help right before the deadline, too. I could see them nabbing that division.


[quote]Dont think to much of it. They just match up good or fairly good against teams like the Cavs and the C's. Thats because these teams load up on one side and can be beaten by a drive and kick followed by an extra pass. The Wiz need to shoor a high percetage but they can keep up. Their perimiter players (Wiz) are very creative one on one.[/quote]

Still think they provide a valuable blueprint on how to contain LeBron.



[quote]Aside from cap issues it could work....for the Magic at least. They've got enough shooters left. But they are better served going after a slasher 2 than 3. As a Bulls man you should offer Hughes.[/quote]

2 or 3, I don't think it much matters as long as they get their slasher/creator.

And I thought about Hughes for them, but honestly he hasn't been doing much slashing these days. He's mostly a jumpshooter. Maybe on that team, he would reassert himself that way, but I don't see it.

Regardless, it doesn't matter because I don't think Pax does this deal. To save his job, he needs to do something that makes (or has the appearance of making) the Bulls better now. The Magic will not give me Turk for Hughes straight up and all they have left to offer are expiring contracts/a late first round pick. Of course, the Bulls could throw Noah or Noc or Sefalosha or something into the mix and ask for one of those expiring contracts back -- it could get complicated -- and I do see Turk fitting in here, but I think you'll see Pax trying to address the low post area of our needs. Any other deal will have to sit on the shelf until that gets taken care of.

[quote]For Dallas it would mean the add another Nowitski. A big white shooter, who, on occasion can put it on the floor. They would lose a lot of speed in transition and their defense wouldnt be served either if not because both are 4s (hedo and dirk) and Dallas is giving up a 3.[/quote]
I disagree. I think their games can mesh better than that. Nowitzki's game starts by either setting up the high post on the elbow for his little turn around jumper, or by coming out to set a screen/start the pic n roll. Turk's game is to stand on the perimeter and wait for his shot/occasionally drive the lane. I think they would complement each other nicely on O. You're right about them giving up a lot on D, but the fact of the matter is, Howard has not been producing in big D and will probably be moved. Also, throwing Bogans into the deal mitigates the loss of defense.

Plus, Turk is a tall 3, he is in no way a 4.

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1647065' date='Jan 13 2009, 09.12']So add-on, I'm curious as to what you think about the latest rumour mill action between the Bulls and Raps. I actually wouldn't mind the deal if they did it a straight two for one. JO has actually looked good this year when he's played but Bargnani seems to have turned the corner so JO needs to be moved now on our end and I like the Nocc. Hughes is..... eh but at least he can defend.[/quote]

I know, I know. Wouldn't it be sooooo ironic if the guy I'm [i]murderously bashing[/i] at the start of this thread ends up in Chicago.

I LOVE this trade...for Toronto. Noc is the hardass that soft team needs. He'll come in and provide some real swagger, some fucking attitude. He'll play hard and inspire others on your team to play hard. He'll rebound, he'll get on the floor and if he fouls somebody, he is going to [i]foul that motherfucker[/i]. He can defend the 3 or the 4 if Coach wants to go small. On offense, he can hit the 3 and drive to the bucket just well enough to keep the other team honest. In short, he's a great piece for a team that needs just one or two more pieces to compete. Which I think is what Toronto is.

Getting rid of JO (who I'll admit has played pretty well) frees up space for Bosh, and, like you said, room for Bargnani who is finally blossoming.

Honestly, I think getting Hughes isn't terrible for them. I hate him (as a person. I want to stress that I [i]hate him as a person[/i]), I hate his game, but I think he might work for the Raptors. Because he's a selfish asshole, his biggest complaint this season has been playing time/not starting. I could see him legitimately starting on Toronto and playing more minutes than he did in Chicago where the Bulls have been concerned with getting their young guards more playing time/developing them. So he could potentially be happy there and not be a huge cancer. He'll still take some bad shots, but he'll hit a lot of the open ones Calderon gets him, and as you said, he's a decent perimeter defender.

For Chicago, I don't hate the trade, but it smacks of Pax making a deal that appears to benefit the team, in order to keep his job. Yes JO has played well, but thus far, he's only played in what, around 70% of the team's games? And the season is young. That percentage will go down. Also, to be effective, JO needs to get a lot of touches/be planted on the block. You can't really run an effective screen/roll with JO. I'm afraid he just ends up clogging the lane for D Rose. The only thing I like about this trade is that O'Neal is off the books by 2010.

But there appear to be better options for Chicago.

Apparently, there is talk of a straight up deal between LA and Chicago -- Hinrich for Odom. Apparently, Phil craves a taller point guard who can defend and handle the ball. That [i]is[/i] Kirk Hinrich. Now I love Captain Kirk. I was so happy to see him back out on the floor last night that I nearly peed myself. But he's wasted sitting behind Rose and Gordon (who has for serious earned that playing time). And I would love Odom on this team, I would. In Chicago, he gets a chance to start and go NUTS in his contract year to earn himself a big paycheck and we get an answer to our low post need who does not clog the lane at all times. Plus, as mentioned his contract expires at the end of the year. I really like this trade for us.

Also, this Miles business seems to have seriously tied the Blazers into making some moves at the deadline. Apparently, they love Luol Deng. Why, I have no idea. Guy can't create his own shot, is injury prone and is on the hook for 6 overpaid years. But they love him. Perhaps, they believe his problems stem from the fact that his game does not mesh well with Rose's (which it doesn't). But maybe they should remember that his troubles started last year -- yeah, the year before we gave him his big payoff.

Anyways, I am telling you right now, that they would not have to give me anything else for Luol Deng than Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract. The thing is, I'm sure we'd get more than that out of such a deal -- a 3 in return would make sense, so I would think Batuum (whose game I do NOT love, but whatever) makes the most sense. If we could also somehow cajole them into taking Noah off our hands that would be superb.

Honestly, can't see this deal getting done because I think Pax needs to placate fans who want something NOW with a trade, and I'm not sure how this does that. Maybe he can convince them LaFrentz is the big we need. I dunno. If done in conjunction with the Odom deal, he could make it work.

However, if it did get done, I would weep for joy to be out from under that ridiculous contract. I love this Darius Miles situation more by the day.

This season is really getting exciting for me as the trade deadline looms. Every Bull but Rose is in play. I'd like to see them keep and pay Gordon also -- he's earned it this season. If push comes to shove, I'd also like to keep Noc. As down as I've been on Ty Thomas in the past, I wouldn't mind keeping him around. Those flashes of defensive brilliance are hard to ignore. Kirk should go somewhere he can play.

The two biggest items on my trade deadline wishlist are not acquisitions -- they're the departures of Larry Hughes and Joakim Noah -- get those guys off my team, John Paxson, and I will reconsider your contract extension. Get rid of Deng's contract, and I'll love you forever.

[Young Wolf]

[quote]Apparently, there is talk of a straight up deal between LA and Chicago -- Hinrich for Odom. Apparently, Phil craves a taller point guard who can defend and handle the ball. That is Kirk Hinrich. Now I love Captain Kirk. I was so happy to see him back out on the floor last night that I nearly peed myself. But he's wasted sitting behind Rose and Gordon (who has for serious earned that playing time). And I would love Odom on this team, I would. In Chicago, he gets a chance to start and go NUTS in his contract year to earn himself a big paycheck and we get an answer to our low post need who does not clog the lane at all times. Plus, as mentioned his contract expires at the end of the year. I really like this trade for us.[/quote]

Intriguing. Losing Odom is going to hurt a lot. He basically is the guy when Kobe is taking a breather, but as you said, Phil does love himself a tall PG...and they are thin behind Fisher (Farmar is injured and Vuljacic just got hurt). I only wonder if they plan to run the twin towers most of the game, are making more room for Ariza/Radman at 3, or more playing time for Mihm or Sun Yue?

Odom does have a "bone bruise" whatever the hell that is that is limiting his playing time.

*shrugs*

[Exa Inova]

Wolfs right.
Phil loves tall guards.
I hope for the rest of the league that the deal doesnt go through. The Lakers are tall enough as it is

[quote]Gordon (who has for serious earned that playing time)[/quote]

so I guess you havent changed your mind about what you wrote a few pages ago:
[b]Add-On wrote:[/b]

[quote]I always felt like they should have given Gordon the money as opposed to offering it to Deng. That said, I don't feel like there's a place for Gordon in this franchise. Even if they offered him a big contract at season's end, I don't think he'd take it. Too much ill will from both sides over the last year or so.

With that in mind, even though I love his scoring ability, I think they have to trade him this season. He's been playing very well so far this year, showing off what he can do. Hopefully, that and the fact that his contract is up at the end of this year will be enough to entice a team into taking him on as well as one of the more unwieldy contracts the Bulls would like to shed (Hinrich, Noc). The Bulls aren't going anywhere this year (save maybe a first round playoff exit) and the smartest thing (really the only thing) for Pax to do is to scrap his Deng/Gordon/Hinrich core and rebuild around Rose. With the right trades/signings, the Bulls could be right back in the thick of things as early as next year, and definitely in two years.[/quote]

[add-on]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1648494' date='Jan 14 2009, 08.50']Wolfs right.
Phil loves tall guards.
I hope for the rest of the league that the deal doesnt go through. The Lakers are tall enough as it is



so I guess you havent changed your mind about what you wrote a few pages ago:
[b]Add-On wrote:[/b][/quote]
The problem with trading Gordon is that he has to approve any trade the Bulls try to make with him. I don't think I knew that when I posted that. Also, I think I wrote that near the beginning of the year? Gordon by far has done the best job of adjusting his game to Rose's. Despite what was suggested earlier in the thread, (not by me) they play well together. So if they can get him signed, I think he's the one Bull besides Rose they should definitely keep.

[Slurktan]

So how was the game add-on? Did you get to watch it? Stupid cable company up here is fighting with the sports channel so we miss a bunch of games and this happens to be one.

[add-on]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1648409' date='Jan 14 2009, 07.04']I only wonder if they plan to run the twin towers most of the game, are making more room for Ariza/Radman at 3, or more playing time for Mihm or Sun Yue?[/quote]
They seem quite fond of this Josh Powell fellow...



[quote name='Slurktan' post='1649474' date='Jan 14 2009, 20.54']So how was the game add-on? Did you get to watch it? Stupid cable company up here is fighting with the sports channel so we miss a bunch of games and this happens to be one.[/quote]
Yeah, it was on here and I watched a decent bit of it. There was so much basketball on last night it was ridiculous. Had to keep flipping from the Bulls game to the Duke game to the Georgetown game to the Michigan game and back to the Bulls game and then to the Lakers game when it started...I didn't know what to do with myself.

Anyways, how would you say Bargnani's on the ball defense is usually? Because I'm struggling to understand how any GM could be enamored with Luol Deng's game when he can't even take [i]that guy[/i] off the dribble. Thought Bargnani played pretty well on offense, too. Bosh had an all right game, and it's pretty clear you guys miss Calderon out there. Also, not having JO in the game allowed the Bulls to play a line-up as small as Rose, Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Noc for long stretches of time.

I feel bad for you, Slurk, that you missed this game. Because you missed a virtuoso performance by my guy D. Rose in the fourth quarter. He seriously took over down the stretch. It was pretty awesome to see. Also, Noc put on a pretty good performance in his audition for you guys, so you probably would've wanted to see that. Larry Hughes sat his ass on the bench for pretty much the second straight game in a row, which was glorious. I guess we're done showing off his talents to the league -- everybody pretty much knows what he can and can't do anyways. Hinrich seems to still be favoring his thumb a bit -- was a little gunshy, but then, he's never been the quickest to shoot.

But yeah, it was a good game that went down to the wire. Very fun to watch. The play that pretty much clinched it for the Bulls was made, obscenely enough, by Joakim Noah. There were something like 30 seconds left in the game and you guys had the ball, down by 2. So they throw it to Bosh, who's facing Noah up from about 18 feet on the left side. Bosh drives towards the baseline, does a quick spin move, pump fakes then takes his shot. Unfortunately for him, Noah stayed with him the whole way. Shot is blocked, Bulls recover and make their free throws to seal it.

[Arakasi]

Wages of Win Journal was doing a thing on Noah a few days ago Add-On. They compared him to Hawes and Gray and found him to be the best of the three. They also compared Noah to his teammates and concluded that he was pretty much the best player compared to his position on the team. He leads the Bulls in both Wins Produced and wins produced per 48 minutes. Problem I guess with the Bulls is Gray is second best on that team in that stat behind Noah and he is starting now.

Here is the article if you're interested: [url="http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/assessing-joakim/"]http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/assessing-joakim/[/url]