NBA

[BLU-RAY]

If we could turn Yi and a draft pick into Amare, I would be ecstatic. That would be a fun team.

[add-on]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1680516' date='Feb 9 2009, 15.32']I disagree on your take on Odom. With Kobe and Gasol on that team, he is always going to have room and options. Odom's success to me has always relied on himself. No one is going to try and take away Odom when you have Pau and Kobe out there. Odom has the skill and ability to always be a 18/10 guy on that team. If he pulls those numbers consistently the Lakers will win the title going away. The question is whether he'll go into his funk of having a 6/4 game or something like he always has done in the past.[/quote]

Think this is a valid take. It's hard to argue that Odom hasn't been inconsistent throughout his career. Still doesn't take away from the fact Cleveland doesn't have any one who can guard him. Odom was terrible in last year's Finals. Was he terrible because he's a perennially inconsistent headcase? Yeah, but he was also terrible because Boston had the personnel to frustrate him.


[quote]As for Big Z, he had a number of good offensive rebounds yesterday (5) and did pretty well for himself. Obviously his strength is that he has a good jump shot, but he's not entirely useless besides that.[/quote]

See, to me, Ilgauskas is no better than Luc Longley was during the Bulls' '96-98 run. He's a big body that can clog the lane on defense, hit some open jumpers, even give you a jump hook here and there. He's a decent piece. But, like I said before, he's not going to win you any games. Luc Longley won championships with two superstars, a defensive and rebounding specialist to end defensive and rebounding specialists, a streaky, and smooth stroked 6'11" scoring specialist from Croatia. Yes, Longley helped to win each of those championships, but honestly, they could've gotten any number of players to do the same things and been just fine. In fact, for one of those year they did get another player to do some of the same things. Later, that player would change his name to Bison Dele to distract fans and media from how mediocre he was.

Instead of the above things, Big Z has one superstar, a group of fairly to exceptionally useless power forwards, and a bunch of decent to great shooters. Eh.

[quote]Someone I was reading was saying that he needs to develop his 15 foot jump shot and just work on that if they're clogging the paint on him. The problem as you've said before is it is too easy to force him into a player who only throws up deep 3s or drives into the middle of 3 defenders. He needs to have some sort of game in the middle of the court.[/quote]
And I honestly don't expect him to develop it before the season ends. That's one of the main reasons (along with James needing a bit more help) that I don't have the Cavs winning it this year.

However, James has shown in the past that he can learn and adapt his game. The big difference from this year to last is, IMO, his leadership. Something he apparently learned from his Team USA experience. I wouldn't be surprised to find James coming into the beginning of next year with the mid-range jumper he's missing.

Which is a problem for me because I hate him.

[add-on]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1680492' date='Feb 9 2009, 15.16']add-on,

Latest I've heard is that the JO for Marion/Banks deal is waiting on Riley still. However since Stephen A. Smith came out and reported that Bosh has told Colangelo that he won't resign, there has been a flurry of rumours about Bosh being moved. One on cnnsi says to the Pistons in a three way deal which nets the Raps Amar'e. However if it's true Bosh said that then if I were Colangelo I'd offer him for Beasley/Marion in a heartbeat.[/quote]
Yeah, I'd been hearing that. Still, if you're Colangelo, you have to think that, if you can trade O'Neal for someone that fits your system better, and put a winning product on the floor for the '09-10 season, there's a chance Bosh will change his mind. If that doesn't work, you can trade him at the deadline next year. I feel like when you've got your hands on a superstar big, you've got to do everything you can to make it work.

[quote name='BLU-RAY' post='1680594' date='Feb 9 2009, 16.30']If we could turn Yi and a draft pick into Amare, I would be ecstatic. That would be a fun team.[/quote]
Yeah, I'd love to see that work out, too. Behind the Bulls (for obvious reasons), the Heat (think Amare-Wade would be fun), and the Pistons (I just want AI to have every chance to succeed), the Nets are the team I'd like to see him go to. I wonder if that acquisition would put a stop to the Vince Carter trade talks.

[Arakasi]

[quote name='add-on' post='1680615' date='Feb 9 2009, 16.45']Think this is a valid take. It's hard to argue that Odom hasn't been inconsistent throughout his career. Still doesn't take away from the fact Cleveland doesn't have any one who can guard him. Odom was terrible in last year's Finals. Was he terrible because he's a perennially inconsistent headcase? Yeah, but he was also terrible because Boston had the personnel to frustrate him.[/quote]

I don't think he was any more terrible in the finals than he was in the earlier rounds. In the finals last year he had a better performance than he did in earlier rounds. Shot a higher percentage from the field anyway. The thing is last postseason he had a good series against Utah, but both against SA and Denver he played worse than he did against Boston. He is an inconsistent player far more than Boston having personal to shut him down.

[quote]See, to me, Ilgauskas is no better than Luc Longley was during the Bulls' '96-98 run. He's a big body that can clog the lane on defense, hit some open jumpers, even give you a jump hook here and there. He's a decent piece. But, like I said before, he's not going to win you any games. Luc Longley won championships with two superstars, a defensive and rebounding specialist to end defensive and rebounding specialists, a streaky, and smooth stroked 6'11" scoring specialist from Croatia. Yes, Longley helped to win each of those championships, but honestly, they could've gotten any number of players to do the same things and been just fine. In fact, for one of those year they did get another player to do some of the same things. Later, that player would change his name to Bison Dele to distract fans and media from how mediocre he was.

Instead of the above things, Big Z has one superstar, a group of fairly to exceptionally useless power forwards, and a bunch of decent to great shooters. Eh.[/quote]

I don't necessarily agree here. I don't think there are many players, much less centers who have averaged over 19 PER for the last 7 years. If this is so easily replaceable than you might as well say anything is. Compare him to other good shooting big men like Okur or Miller and you'll see his numbers beat theirs. [url="http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayerMid0809.html"]http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayerMid0809.html[/url] had a good list of all players at the midseason mark. .205 for WP48 is very good. I just don't think he is that replaceable, and the metrics out there support that.


[quote]And I honestly don't expect him to develop it before the season ends. That's one of the main reasons (along with James needing a bit more help) that I don't have the Cavs winning it this year.

However, James has shown in the past that he can learn and adapt his game. The big difference from this year to last is, IMO, his leadership. Something he apparently learned from his Team USA experience. I wouldn't be surprised to find James coming into the beginning of next year with the mid-range jumper he's missing.

Which is a problem for me because I hate him.[/quote]

Curious why you hate him? The only thing I can think of is because he has a public persona that is not what he really is like. However after MJ retired and seeing and finding out what he is like in real compared to what his image was, it's something that I've just learn to live with.

Edit: I guess he is a bit of a whiner. Reminds me in ways of Sidney Crosby in the NHL.

[add-on]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1680801' date='Feb 9 2009, 19.51']I don't think he was any more terrible in the finals than he was in the earlier rounds. In the finals last year he had a better performance than he did in earlier rounds. Shot a higher percentage from the field anyway. The thing is last postseason he had a good series against Utah, but both against SA and Denver he played worse than he did against Boston. He is an inconsistent player far more than Boston having personal to shut him down.[/quote]
Well, that could be. I just remember that Boston's being able to make him a nonfactor for the series being one of the bigger reasons they won it.



[quote]I don't necessarily agree here. I don't think there are many players, much less centers who have averaged over 19 PER for the last 7 years. If this is so easily replaceable than you might as well say anything is. Compare him to other good shooting big men like Okur or Miller and you'll see his numbers beat theirs. [url="http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayerMid0809.html"]http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayerMid0809.html[/url] had a good list of all players at the midseason mark. .205 for WP48 is very good. I just don't think he is that replaceable, and the metrics out there support that.[/quote]

and the Cavs did so poorly for the month he was out then?

I like these WagesofWins fellas because they provide me with interesting reading material and a unique viewpoint. But to tell you the truth, all too often I find myself with this urge to ask them to take a few deep breaths and step away from the calculator.

I mean, are you seriously trying to argue a point with a list that has Marcus Camby ranked above Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett? Jason Kidd ahead of Dwyane Wade and Kobe Bryant? Chris Duhon ahead of Steve Nash? Ben Wallace in its top 50 (or anywhere on it, for that matter).

I have trouble buying this stuff.

Ilgauskas just doesn't have a skillset an opposing coach would have to gameplan for. You don't have to worry about him. He's not a good on the ball defender. He's not a good off the ball defender. He's mediocre on the boards with what six, seven a game. He doesn't have a back to the basket offensive game, so you don't have to worry about double teaming him (something Miller can do). He can't put the ball on the floor and drive (something Okur can do) so you can close out with impunity if you so wish. He'll hit you with a few jumpers here and there and rack up around 15. But when the game's on the line, like as not, he won't even be out there because Brown might feel the team has a better chance at grabbing an offensive board with Varejao and Hickson in and it's not like they'll be running plays for Ilgauskas in crunch time anyway.

Ilgauskas is a classic case of let him get his shots and focus on shutting down the other players. If you have to help off of him to stop James or Williams penetrating, then you do because you'll take an 18-20 footer from a big any day over a layup (note that this is not true of Okur because Okur will take the extra step back and nail the three, and you never help off a 3pt shooter -- see NO vs. SA 2008 Game 7; keywords Manu, Ginobili). Ilgauskas getting his shots and his buckets can even play into the other coach's hands -- if you can stop them from penetrating early on, but leave them for wide open jumpers, even ones they hit, you won that possession because there's now a chance they'll get into a jumpshooting mindset -- a noted tendency of the Cavs.

That's why my attitude towards Big Z is a general meh.

Stats aren't everything, they lack context.

[quote]Curious why you hate him? The only thing I can think of is because he has a public persona that is not what he really is like. However after MJ retired and seeing and finding out what he is like in real compared to what his image was, it's something that I've just learn to live with.

Edit: I guess he is a bit of a whiner. Reminds me in ways of Sidney Crosby in the NHL.[/quote]
The reasons are myriad.

First, the nickname gets under my skin. I know you don't usually get to pick your own nickname -- unless you're Shaq -- but I never said my hatred was rational. Anyways. The nickname. What is he king of. And why. What is he the ruler of. King implies first and to earn that distinction you've got to win something. He has not.

You hit on another of my reasons. He [i]does [/i] whine. He complains. [i]He makes excuses.[/i] As an example, and one I noted earlier in the thread, after he played poorly in a loss against the Bulls he blamed his poor play on the fact that he had a cold and was having difficulty breathing. That's just not something you'd see out of a Kobe or a Paul Pierce. Tracy McGrady maybe, but not out of a guy generally regarded as a winner. It's a travesty to me that largest amount of natural talent ever to be assembled in one basketball body had to be given to a whiner.

Third, he's a freaking Yankees and Cowboys fan. Who grew up around Cleveland. Cleveland is one of the most maligned sports cities in the US. They never win. Yet, each of their teams has one of the most loyal fanbases in the country. Yet LeBron somehow grows up a Yankees and Cowboys fan. As a diehard fan of the Bears and the Cubs, I find it difficult to do anything but sneer at a person making that choice.

Fourth, the disrespect he's shown to his team, to his city, and to the game during this whole 'where will LeBron go in two years' nonsense. Of course, the media is partly to blame. They asked the questions. But he's played it up with his answers. He could've said from the beginning that he was only focusing on winning a championship with the team he's currently playing for. He could have said he had no comment regarding the subject. But he courted the attention, the controversy. To me, the bullshit culminated the night he wore a special New York version of his shoe the first time he played at the Garden this season. As a gesture. To a city that has a team for which he does not play. What an insult to his teammates, to his city, and to the game of basketball.

[add-on]

So how excited is everybody about H-O-R-S-E for All-Star Weekend? Most of the wrinkles the NBA has added in the past have been duds, but I feel like this could be really fun to watch.


I also think the league did a good job on picking out the competitors -- Durant, Mayo and Joe Johnson -- all athletic guys with good shots.

[Exa Inova]

[quote]First, the nickname gets under my skin. I know you don't usually get to pick your own nickname -- unless you're Shaq -- but I never said my hatred was rational. Anyways. The nickname. What is he king of. And why. What is he the ruler of. King implies first and to earn that distinction you've got to win something. He has not.[/quote]
King James was an english king. James has the same name hence King James. Barkley same story. I dont hate him. I respect his abillities and I am frequently in awe about what he does.

[quote]So how excited is everybody about H-O-R-S-E for All-Star Weekend? Most of the wrinkles the NBA has added in the past have been duds, but I feel like this could be really fun to watch.[/quote]
I fear it will bore real quick. As a non us resident who is fairly unfamiliar with horse, Im not waiting on low action trick shots.
I think they should tweak the dunk contest in a way that gimmicks are outlawed (no more chairs, capes, cakes or whatever) just dunks. And the contestants should have a scoring average of at least 15 ppg. That way you get to see stars going against stars.
The All Star game should have an absolute minimum of time outs. 1 full and 1 20 per quarter.
It must become more competitive. How? I dont know. Maybe it can go back to the original game. Let the team with the best record play an all star team (or the champs). Let the runner up from the finals play the second all star team and than play a 'finals game'.

On Add Ons question about trades.
Vince Carter in mentioned a lot. I think the team that seriously wants his services is in need of a third scoring option, because Carter doesnt do 1 or 2. It would be interesting if a team like Houston would trade for him with his cousin Tracy.
LA Clips might also be a good location for him or Phx (for Amare?)
Utah should also inquire into Vince but somehow I doubt if Sloan will have much patience with a spineless player.
Partly related: Carter is, to my knowledge, the only player who, at the smallest inconvenience immidiately sprints, hops or skips to the lockerroom.

The option of Carter going to the Cavs for Wally is an interesting one. The Cavs would get a go to guy for the second unit or when james is in foul trouble and Vince is out of the spot lights. The nets get.......an expiring contract.

more later....

[Exa Inova]

Later....

I just watched the ending of the Cavs-Pacer game on NBA.com. As far as I can see the refs made the same (wrong?) call twice, thus evening them out.

Im sure Add On will view this as yet another example that James is a whiny player.







cant say I disagree this time.

[Exa Inova]

Later still....

[quote]Does anyone know if anyone anywhere keeps a stat on game-winning shots made? Brandon Roy made another one Sunday against New York and he made one early in the year against Houston. I'm pretty sure he made a few last year and he made a couple long threes to send it to OT in his rookie year. He is racking up the clutch buckets early in his career. I just want to get a better feel for how many he actually has.[/quote]
[url="http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm"]Let me help you[/url]

Just to beat my own chest (its been awhile) I knew and said Carmelo is clutchiest of clutch.

Despite some writers writing differently, guys like Carter and Nowitsky are pretty clutch

[Arakasi]

And Kobe isn't terribly clutch. He just is in that position a lot of the time. He misses a ton of shots though.

[Exa Inova]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1682883' date='Feb 11 2009, 16.36']And Kobe isn't terribly clutch. He just is in that position a lot of the time. He misses a ton of shots though.[/quote]
I catch your drift but in all fairness we have to distinguish between game winner and clutch shots in the last 5 minutes. on the latter he probably has a better record, or at least it seems to hurt more when he makes those. Against the C's and Cavs he had a couple of those (although he also missed more than he made against the C's)

[Arakasi]

Well he made those 3s in the 4th. But then he missed every shot he attempted in OT. Still the sample size is large enough and they go over it in the article you linked. Most attempts, among the lowest percentage hit, and among the lowest for assist numbers. For all the Kobe MJ comparisons I never have though Kobe was anywhere near as clutch as Jordan.

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1682903' date='Feb 11 2009, 10.47']For all the Kobe MJ comparisons I never have though Kobe was anywhere near as clutch as Jordan.[/quote]

In all fairness, who really is? I personally hate the Kobe/Lebron comparison to MJ. There is simply never going to be another MJ.

YW

[Arakasi]

There are some players who are. Bird you can definitely argue. Perhaps Magic as well. There are other more minor players, like for example Horry. I agree there is never going to be another MJ, but it doesn't stop the media from jamming the comparison down our throat every time they talk about Kobe.

TBH I am a little like Add-On in how he thinks of James I think of Kobe. I just don't like the guy. Probably has to do with me being a Shaq fan. After that hype a few years ago I think any Shaq/Kobe fan pretty much had to make a choice who they liked more. Sure he is talented, but I stand by my view that he will never win anything (even just series) on his own. Every time someone tells me how clutch he is, I remember him single handedly gutting his team in game 7 against Phoenix several years ago.

He can only do it as part of a team. Wade, James and AI have all won series on their own, but Kobe hasn't. It's annoying since I like everyone else on the Lakers so much. Especially Phil, Odom, Gasol, Walton and Farmar. I'm not a Lakers fan, but I root for them since I like their personal and I have no favorite team in the west other than Portland.

[Sir Thursday]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1682893' date='Feb 11 2009, 15.43']I catch your drift but in all fairness we have to distinguish between game winner and clutch shots in the last 5 minutes. on the latter he probably has a better record, or at least it seems to hurt more when he makes those. Against the C's and Cavs he had a couple of those (although he also missed more than he made against the C's)[/quote]

These tables seems to be what you're looking for (from the same article): [url="http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM"]http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM[/url]

Kobe is listed as 3rd behind LeBron and Carmelo. So, clutch, but not quite as clutch as those two?


Sir Thursday

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1682921' date='Feb 11 2009, 10.59']There are some players who are. Bird you can definitely argue. Perhaps Magic as well. There are other more minor players, like for example Horry. I agree there is never going to be another MJ, but it doesn't stop the media from jamming the comparison down our throat every time they talk about Kobe.

TBH I am a little like Add-On in how he thinks of James I think of Kobe. I just don't like the guy. Probably has to do with me being a Shaq fan. After that hype a few years ago I think any Shaq/Kobe fan pretty much had to make a choice who they liked more. Sure he is talented, but I stand by my view that he will never win anything (even just series) on his own. He can only do it as part of a team. Wade, James and AI have all won series on their own, but Kobe hasn't. It's annoying since I like everyone else on the Lakers so much. Especially Phil, Odom, Gasol, Walton and Farmar. I'm not a Lakers fan, but I root for them since I like their personal and I have no favorite team in the west other than Portland.[/quote]

Nah dude. Bird is simply Bird. Magic is just Magic. There is only one MJ.

And Im a Lakers fan, so it wasnt a choice for me at all. I root for my team, not really the people on it. I mean of course I like some of the players, but more so I want my team to win...bottom line.

Shaq can kiss my ass as far as Im concerned. He's the biggest shit talking moron in the league who doesnt have the balls to stand by his moronic statements (see the video of him rapping about Kobe losing to the C's last year and then quickly saying it was a joke). It wasnt even about him dissing Kobe to me...he was dissing LA...the team that gave him his first couple rings and basically allowed him to make some really shitty ass movies while being a star there.

I get the Kobe dislike, there was a time when he was really pissing me off with his talk of leaving LA, demanding a trade, etc, but in the end he's still a Laker...so Im all good. If he left LA and ran his mouth like Shaq...Id say fuck you to Kobe as well.

*shrugs*

[add-on]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1682704' date='Feb 11 2009, 05.40']King James was an english king. James has the same name hence King James. Barkley same story. I dont hate him. [b]I respect his abillities and I am frequently in awe about what he does.[/b][/quote]
Eh. None of the things I said keeps me from feeling the same way RE the bolded. He's a great player with stunning abilities who I happen to hate.

And Sir Charles was obviously ironic, so not the same thing at all. Anyways, a nickname is clearly a silly reason to dislike someone. Oh well. It just irks.

[quote]I fear it will bore real quick. As a non us resident who is fairly unfamiliar with horse, Im not waiting on low action trick shots.[/quote]

For me it really depends on how well they do at it. I wanna see some crazy ass shots made, both from the guy who planned them and from the guys who didn't. It could be boring or it could be an amazing exhibition of skill.

[quote]I think they should tweak the dunk contest in a way that gimmicks are outlawed (no more chairs, capes, cakes or whatever) just dunks. And the contestants should have a scoring average of at least 15 ppg. That way you get to see stars going against stars.[/quote]

I don't mind a gimmick as long as it's creative and adds something to the dunk. Agree about wanting to see stars in the contest. That's why it's nice to see Howard taking his crown a little seriously.



[quote]The All Star game should have an absolute minimum of time outs. 1 full and 1 20 per quarter.
It must become more competitive. How? I dont know. Maybe it can go back to the original game. Let the team with the best record play an all star team (or the champs). Let the runner up from the finals play the second all star team and than play a 'finals game'.[/quote]

See, to me the risk of an injury to a star from a team that has championship aspirations is too much to make this game "mean something" or whatever. And anyways, even though both teams generally dick around for three and a half quarters, they usually take it up a notch down the stretch. It's nice to see everybody want to win so bad, though the game doesn't mean anything.


[quote]On Add Ons question about trades.
Vince Carter in mentioned a lot. I think the team that seriously wants his services is in need of a third scoring option, because Carter doesnt do 1 or 2. It would be interesting if a team like Houston would trade for him with his cousin Tracy.
LA Clips might also be a good location for him or Phx (for Amare?)
Utah should also inquire into Vince but somehow I doubt if Sloan will have much patience with a spineless player.
Partly related: Carter is, to my knowledge, the only player who, at the smallest inconvenience immidiately sprints, hops or skips to the lockerroom.

The option of Carter going to the Cavs for Wally is an interesting one. The Cavs would get a go to guy for the second unit or when james is in foul trouble and Vince is out of the spot lights. The nets get.......an expiring contract.

more later....[/quote]
Yeah, I've been hearing about the Vince to Houston for Artest. Houston would like to get rid of McGrady, but with his contract being what it is, I don't think they'll pull it off. Same thing with Phoenix and Shaq.

Carter going to the Cavs is scary. Depending on how Vince meshes, I'm pretty sure that trade would make them the favorite to win it all. Still, even though the salaries match up (surprisingly, to me), I can't see the Nets doing this deal without getting something more in return. Vince's return to form this year is going to command a pretty high price. Feel like the Cavs would also have to give up Hickson, or at least Varejao, thinning out their already meager front line. So maybe forget what I said about this trade making the Cavs favorites.



[quote]Partly related: Carter is, to my knowledge, the only player who, at the smallest inconvenience immidiately sprints, hops or skips to the lockerroom.[/quote]

Sometimes you just need a good skip.

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1682745' date='Feb 11 2009, 07.09']Later....

I just watched the ending of the Cavs-Pacer game on NBA.com. As far as I can see the refs made the same (wrong?) call twice, thus evening them out.

Im sure Add On will view this as yet another example that James is a whiny player.[/quote]
Oh, I don't know. I thought LeBron had a legitimate beef, just like Granger had a legitimate beef the play before.

The refs really fucked this one up.

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1682759' date='Feb 11 2009, 07.22']Later still....


[url="http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm"]Let me help you[/url]

Just to beat my own chest (its been awhile) I knew and said Carmelo is clutchiest of clutch.

Despite some writers writing differently, guys like Carter and Nowitsky are pretty clutch[/quote]
Yikes, at Chauncey, Manu, Kobe and 'Sheed.


Surprised to see Gordon with such a high percentage. I just have this image permanently fixed into my brain of him dribbling for fifteen seconds at the top of the key, then trying to make a move to the basket for the next two seconds, failing at that, then hoisting a ridiculous fade away from twenty three feet. :dunno:

[Arakasi]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1682931' date='Feb 11 2009, 10.07']Nah dude. Bird is simply Bird. Magic is just Magic. There is only one MJ.

And Im a Lakers fan, so it wasnt a choice for me at all. I root for my team, not really the people on it. I mean of course I like some of the players, but more so I want my team to win...bottom line.

Shaq can kiss my ass as far as Im concerned. He's the biggest shit talking moron in the league who doesnt have the balls to stand by his moronic statements (see the video of him rapping about Kobe losing to the C's last year and then quickly saying it was a joke). It wasnt even about him dissing Kobe to me...he was dissing LA...the team that gave him his first couple rings and basically allowed him to make some really shitty ass movies while being a star there.

I get the Kobe dislike, there was a time when he was really pissing me off with his talk of leaving LA, demanding a trade, etc, but in the end he's still a Laker...so Im all good. If he left LA and ran his mouth like Shaq...Id say fuck you to Kobe as well.

*shrugs*[/quote]

Yeah I understand. I'm just not a Lakers fan. I can root for teams because of personal on them, but I don't change my team loyalty. Which for the NBA means I'm stuck with the Raptors and to a lesser extent Portland. So when it came to Shaq vs Kobe well I chose Shaq because he is to me a lot more likable. Plus I feel that he was more important to the championships they won than Kobe was. Kobe tries to act all nice, but it comes off fake like Jordan does. Shaq is about the most unique personality in the game, and that's what makes me root for him.

On the clutch thing, I disagree that MJ was the most clutch player of all time, or at least conclusively. Of course Bird was Bird and MJ was MJ, but that doesn't mean that MJ was more clutch than Bird.

[add-on]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1682907' date='Feb 11 2009, 09.51']In all fairness, who really is? I personally hate the Kobe/Lebron comparison to MJ. There is simply never going to be another MJ.

YW[/quote]
I'd be lying if I said these comparisons didn't feed into my LeBron hatred. It doesn't help that LBJ embraces the comparison -- the jersey number, LeBron's thievery and perversion of MJ's hand chalk clap -- it irks.

Kobe, on the other hand, has grown on me. I love players with giant chips on their shoulders (Kobe, AI), and Kobe's has only gotten bigger in the years since Shaq left. I'd love to see him win it and give a giant fuck you to everybody who said he couldn't do it without Shaq (and I like Shaq -- he's a big, harmless goofball, IMO).

Arak,

Puhlease. Wade, James and AI have all won series on their own in the Eastern Conference. This year, that might be saying something. In the past decade? Big fucking deal.

[Exa Inova]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1682907' date='Feb 11 2009, 16.51']In all fairness, who really is? I personally hate the Kobe/Lebron comparison to MJ. There is simply never going to be another MJ.

YW[/quote]
Hmmm, as great as mike was, (like Simmons once wrote) a next mike is more likely than say a next AI, Barkley or Magic. Mike wasnt exeptionally build and the fact that Kobe comes close is evidence that being like Mike is possible.

Anyways, Id pick Mike over Kobe every day of the week.