NBA

[Exa Inova]

[quote]Carter going to the Cavs is scary. Depending on how Vince meshes, I'm pretty sure that trade would make them the favorite to win it all. Still, even though the salaries match up (surprisingly, to me), I can't see the Nets doing this deal without getting something more in return. Vince's return to form this year is going to command a pretty high price. Feel like the Cavs would also have to give up Hickson, or at least Varejao, thinning out their already meager front line. So maybe forget what I said about this trade making the Cavs favorites[/quote]
If I was Danny Ferry I would give up Wally and Varejao in a heartbeat to get Carter. I would use the corpse that is Snow and every other benchwarmer to get another big body even for just this years play off run.

..checking hoopshype for Cavs payroll...Snow, Wally and Wright are on the payroll for 21,5 million in expiring contracts. Surely they can get a decent big man for a year?

[Arakasi]

Well in Wade's case he won a title. And the other 2 got to the championship games. Kobe has yet to even win a series on his own. It's not like he was failing against SA in the west, they got thumped by Phoenix. He gave up against Phoenix in that game 7 a few years back and just handed them the series. That to me was pretty disgraceful. Until he shows he can actually do it I'm going to doubt him. You can't even say that he is the most important player on his team for this year. Gasol is. And its doubtful on second most either. Odom's performance has a much better correlation with their W/L percentage than Kobe's does.

I agree Kobe is a great player. He has a killer jump shot and can drive very well at times. But he's never won a series on his own and I don't think he is capable of lifting a team on his shoulders like other great's have done. To me he is more Pippen than Jordan, and until he shows some proof that he can actually will his team to victory than I will be in the camp that doubts him. To many of the big games he has either not shown up (Boston game 6 last year, than again you can say that for the whole LA team) or quit on his team (game 7 against the Suns)

James as annoying as he is, has taken that team on his back far more than Kobe ever has done for the Lakers. Part of that is the position Kobe plays. As a SG he just isn't as dominant as a PF/C or a PG (or point forward which basically is what LeBron is, akin to Magic in the 80s). Nothing wrong with that. But that to me shows that Kobe belongs in comparisons with people like Pierce and Garnett, players who on their own couldn't win, but needed help. Much different from players like Paul, Wade, James and the old AI who are legit one man shows.

Anyway, speaking of general basketball news. This trade is floating around. Aldridge, Bayless and Raef's expiring contract for Amare. Thoughts? Is Portland giving up too much here? Do they doubt that Aldridge will develop more into the strong PF they want instead of the more mid range jump shooter he is? He's not much of a defender, but I doubt Amare is any upgrade over him.

[Arakasi]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1682958' date='Feb 11 2009, 10.22']Hmmm, as great as mike was, (like Simmons once wrote) a next mike is more likely than say a next AI, Barkley or Magic. Mike wasnt exeptionally build and the fact that Kobe comes close is evidence that being like Mike is possible.

Anyways, Id pick Mike over Kobe every day of the week.[/quote]

LeBron is as close to a next Magic as you're gonna get. Similar size and speed. It's just that James drives more while Magic dished out more. James if he wanted to could make himself into a point forward akin to Magic and get triple doubles easily. He would need a better supporting cast though.

AI I'm pretty sure its possible. Young players like Mayo and Westbrook are similar in ways. Barkley though, that's really tough. A dominant 6'4" power forward? I just don't see that ever happening again.

[Exa Inova]

[quote]Anyway, speaking of general basketball news. This trade is floating around. Aldridge, Bayless and Raef's expiring contract for Amare. Thoughts? Is Portland giving up too much here? Do they doubt that Aldridge will develop more into the strong PF they want instead of the more mid range jump shooter he is? He's not much of a defender, but I doubt Amare is any upgrade over him.[/quote]
Not Aldridge. Of course the suns want something in return and Lamarcus (whadda name) would fit perfectly because his jumper and abillity to face could complement Shaqs back to the basket game but Lamarcus plays the same with Oden (only Oden isnt as dominant as Shaq)
Although he never had any of court troubles, I feel Amare is a step in the Jailblazers direction. A bad influence on the young Blazers. The Blazers dont need other players right now. they need time.

[quote]Barkley though, that's really tough. A dominant 6'4" power forward? I just don't see that ever happening again.[/quote]
Thats why I cry sometimes................................

[add-on]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1682987' date='Feb 11 2009, 10.37']Well in Wade's case he won a title.[/quote]

I know Shaq didn't play well in the championship series. But completely discounting his presence to say that Wade won a title on his own strikes me as foolish.

[quote]You can't even say that he is the most important player on his team for this year. Gasol is. And its doubtful on second most either. Odom's performance has a much better correlation with their W/L percentage than Kobe's does.[/quote]

Oh bullshit. Please, show me more ridiculous Wins Produced stat tables. I cannot wait.

[quote]To many of the big games he has either not shown up (Boston game 6 last year, than again you can say that for the whole LA team) or quit on his team (game 7 against the Suns)[/quote]

I agree he has things to prove.



[quote]James as annoying as he is, has taken that team on his back far more than Kobe ever has done for the Lakers. Part of that is the position Kobe plays.[/quote]

Agreed. Part of it is the different style they play. But I reiterate that part of it is the conference in which they've played. Kobe would have ripped the East a new one over the past few years.


[quote]Anyway, speaking of general basketball news. This trade is floating around. Aldridge, Bayless and Raef's expiring contract for Amare. Thoughts? Is Portland giving up too much here? Do they doubt that Aldridge will develop more into the strong PF they want instead of the more mid range jump shooter he is? He's not much of a defender, but I doubt Amare is any upgrade over him.[/quote]
Yeah, I think that's too much. Bayless has shown how big of a stud he can be. Much higher ceiling than either of the Blazers other option at point guard, and he may even be better [i]right now[/i] than the other two. And Aldridge is more than a jump shooter already, IMO. Plus, when you've got Greg Oden, it's nice to have your other main big be a guy who can step out and knock it down, as well as play with his back to the basket.

Still, a Roy-Stoudemire pairing could be devastating. And with Oden down there to play D, who cares that Amare doesn't?

If Portland's offering this trade, I'm not sure how the Suns decline. This gives them everything they want. It actually gives them more. Instead of one young talent they can build their future around, they get two. Instead of an expiring contract, they get an expiring contract the majority of which they won't have to pay. Dream deal for the Suns, not so sure about the Blazers.

[Arakasi]

On Wade, well Shaq to me definitely belongs in the group of people who have proven what they can do on their own. What Shaq really did that year was bring them to the title, Wade though against Dallas was a one man show that pretty much brought them back in that series on his own (well with the ref's help ;) )

As for Gasol, is it no surprise that since they got him the Lakers are like 61-13 or something in the regular season? I don't see why it is a shock saying he is the most important player on the team. As for Odom, well obviously if Kobe started consistently stinking it up like Odom has done in the past that would hurt the Laker's a lot. But with Bynum out I think Odom playing well is the biggest thing in how well the Lakers do. If he keeps doing 18/10 they're going all the way. If he reverts to 12/5 than either SA or one of the teams from the East will beat them, regardless of what Kobe does.

Bill Simmons had an article out today, and it had a couple good points. Kobe's going gonzo doesn't really help the team. Because when he scores his 60 its because the rest of the team is sitting on its ass watching him. There is a good reason the team only has one loss when he takes less than 20 shots. The more Kobe scores, the worse the Lakers do. Maybe there is something I'm missing with Kobe here, but has it always been this way with the game's great scorers? Do them making and taking their shots completely disrupt the rest of the team's offense? I wasn't a big bball fan til this decade, so I'm curious on what the rest of the bulls or Celtics did when Jordan or Bird were pouring in 50. Because the issue in the Laker's case is when that happens the team goes flat.

Look at the Cavs for example. Or the Spurs. On the Cavs we know more or less of what the rest of the team is going to get. Than if James has a good game they'll win. If he doesn't they lose. On the Spurs it seems like their offense flows very well, whether it is Duncan, Parker or Manu getting the most points. If Manu is hot Duncan doesn't get lost in the offense. But when Kobe starts jacking shots, the Lakers are a worse team statistically. Their winning percentage and margin of victory drop big time. It's just very odd to see a correlation between how much Kobe takes over the offense and how much worse they do when he does that. It possibly has to do with the complex offense that Jackson runs, but still its damn odd to have a system where Kobe taking over the game hurts the Lakers more than it helps.

As for that trade, yeah I don't understand it from their point. Even with that they're not better than the Lakers or Spurs. So why blow that all for a contract in Amare's that will expire after next year?

[AutumnEvenings]

[quote name='add-on' post='1680399' date='Feb 9 2009, 13.33']AE, are you guys looking to deal or do you think the Jazz will stand pat?[/quote]I haven't heard anything. I've thought a lot about it, and I think we'll stand pat just because of all our injuries and unknowns. At the start of the season, I think many of us were expecting a mid-season Boozer trade. He wasn't happy here but is a really good player, so we could have gotten a pretty good deal for the inevitable (and someone else would have gotten him for less than he'll be asking for now). But then he got injured and boasted that he'd be getting a raise no matter what, and now he's not on schedule for rehab and is [i]going home to Miami[/i] over the break, and just..blech. What a disapointment he's been this season. I mean, sure, anyone can get injured but...my mom had the same surgery a week after he did. She's more than twice his age (don't tell) and doesn't have nearly the incentive, nor the reams of experts, and she's doing almost perfectly fine. It's frustrating to see him still sitting around from a surgery that didn't even reveal anything, and then taking a little vacation. There's no way he'll be back on the 17th.

Anyway. The thing is, we've got two (Koufus and Fezenko) back-up big men who are improving. I don't think we'd get a great deal for either of them. I think C is where we need the most help (in a perfect universe), because that would free up AK to always come in as forward (or even guard). He'll be back after the break anyway though, so we've got C pretty much covered.

Our forward situation is just messy. Boozer, blech. But he's not going anywhere now. Millsap (despite not doing as well as he was, pre-double knee injury and exhaustion) is awesome and we're keeping him. Miles doesn't always put up impressive numbers, but he's good on D and is a good hustler and fits really well in our system. Right now it feels like we need to shore up our forwards, since AK often doubles as center, Harpring (bless his heart) is old and injuried (but reliable), and Korver...eh. He's got at 3s (usually), but I've been less than impressed. Though, to be honest, there's been a huge effort on behalf of the media to turn him into this star. Pretty sure it's because he's a white guy, since he's billed as a heart-throb and shit. (He's funny-looking, and chewing on that mouth guard doesn't help at all.) So it's hard to say if I'm not impressed because he's billed as so much more than "comes off the bench and hits 3s every now and again". But trading for a forward without knowing what Boozer is doing the rest of the season (and if, indeed, he'll opt out of his contract after all--he might not be welcomed for the price he wants somewhere else)...I don't think we'll do it.

With Brevin injured (god damn it!), we're weak at guard. Williams is the heart of our team though. I'd like us to get rid of Almond, but we do need his size, and I don't know what sort of deal we could get for a guy who's barely out of the D-league. Price we could maybe trade, but he's out of UVU and will likely want to stay with *us*, and Brewer is sometimes unreliable, so...I think we're as good on guard as we're likely to get.

(It's kind of frustrating knowing that Utah has an incredibly faithful and strong *local* fan base (even games against the Kings or whoever sell out), but no national acclaim and we don't have much to offer unless you're looking for a good place to raise a family. We just aren't attractive to a lot of players.)

So anyway, that's a long way of saying, I think we're good on guard, and will be good on C in a couple of years, and F is too random right now. I think we won't throw anyone knew into the mix, because we've been relying so much on our team as a whole, and there's no sore thumb (except perhaps our star).

[quote name='add-on' post='1682118' date='Feb 10 2009, 16.46']So how excited is everybody about H-O-R-S-E for All-Star Weekend?[/quote]Very. I think it'll be fun.


[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1682704' date='Feb 11 2009, 04.40']Utah should also inquire into Vince but somehow I doubt if Sloan will have much patience with a spineless player.[/quote]Pretty sure that's a no. Sloan's using all of his kid-gloves on AK.

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1682907' date='Feb 11 2009, 08.51']In all fairness, who really is? I personally hate the Kobe/Lebron comparison to MJ. There is simply never going to be another MJ.

YW[/quote]Agree 100%.


[quote name='Arakasi' post='1682991' date='Feb 11 2009, 09.40']Young players like Mayo and Westbrook are similar in ways.[/quote]Total side note, but I actually gave OJ Mayo a massage when the Grizz were first in town to play us.

Also, couldn't've asked for a better game than last night's against the Lakers. I personally loved late in the 4th when, shortly after Kobe did his obnoxious little dance, Memo got a 3, looked right at Kobe, and did his own little dance. :lol: I also loved when we won.

Though it's completely baffling how we can play like that at home...and lose by 5,000 to Golden State on the road.

[aeu]

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146"]Jermaine O'neal to Miami for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks.[/url]

Does this mean Amare is going to Chicago?

[Slurktan]

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146[/url]

So the trade has finally gone through and thankfully without the rumoured draft pick going to Miami as well. Good trade for both teams I think. Marion gives us rebounding and defense at a position we need it at (unlike JO) and if he doesn't work out, oh well he's gone at the end of the year anyways. Banks is supposedly a defensive guard which will be nice to have for once for situational play.

Miami gets a solid big man (make no mistake JO when healthy this year has played very well) and Moon. I hate Moon for his utter stupidity but he does get some steals here and there with his long arms. I will miss JO though as I think when he played he brought something we also needed and that was intensity. Hard fouls and trash talk. Underrated in players these days.

Edit: Shit, you beat me to it aeu. :P

[Commodore]

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?pagewanted=1"]great article[/url] on Shane Battier and statistical analysis in sports in the NYTimes

[Sir Thursday]

[quote name='Commodore' post='1686799' date='Feb 14 2009, 18.34'][url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?pagewanted=1"]great article[/url] on Shane Battier and statistical analysis in sports in the NYTimes[/quote]

That was a fascinating read, thanks! Coincidentally, I was watching [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4l0KInMNM"]this video[/url] yesterday and thinking about how underrated Shane Battier was. Seemed like an intelligent guy in that vid too.


Sir Thursday

[Commodore]

[quote name='Triskele' post='1687005' date='Feb 14 2009, 17.40']I always knew Battier was this kind of guy but maybe not to this extent.[/quote]

Yeah I can definitely see Battier running for political office some day, he has a golden boy image, he's super smart, he's good looking, and he gives a great interview.

[Commodore]

I haven't heard this at all on ESPN, but around Houston media sources, Artest getting traded before the deadline is a near certainty. He has an expiring contract that will be appealing to alot of teams, and he just hasn't fit in well in Houston.

[Slurktan]

I won't comment on the All Star cause I didn't watch that shit. But Rudy Fernandez was scewed over in the dunk contest last night. That was the most rigged dunk contest since Jordan "beat" 'Nique in 88. Use a lot of retarded props and don't do much gets you 50's now?

[Exa Inova]

Like Ice Cube would say: Rudy got done with no vaseline. 42 for his dunks was a disgrace. 50 for Howards first dunk was bullshit too. His of the side of the backboard dunk. THAT was a 50.
In all he and Robinson deserved to be in the finals. Im convinced Howard would have won it had he dunked his last dunk (free throwline dunk) with 2 hands.


edit to ask: did anyone see the horse game? I missed that part of the all star weekend. Was it good or as lame as I feared it would be?

[add-on]

All in all, a pretty great All-Star weekend I thought.

H-O-R-S-E (or G-E-I-C-O :rolleyes: ) did turn out to be rather boring. You could tell all three of them were nervous. They ended up playing it safe. Too bad, cause I would've liked to see more trick shots attempted, like Johnson's attempt to spin the ball into the hoop.

Any All-Star competition that ends with Aron Afflalo as one of the winners ought to be abolished.

D. Rose winning the skills competition was pretty sweet. And he was totally coasting the whole way through. Nice to see him show that that jumper isn't really a weakness for him anymore (he hits from that distance four or five times a game). That ending dunk was pretty sick too. You could see in his eyes when he was turning that last corner that he was gonna go nuts. Loved it.

The three-point contest was perhaps the worst I've ever seen. Daequan Cook? Come on. Not a single shooter passed the 20 threshold. Two guys tied in the championship round with freaking 15. Jeez.


I agree Rudy Fernandez got jobbed in the Slam Dunk contest. His first dunk was incredible and the best Kenny Smith can say is 'Rex Chapman did it better'? Come on.

I think Howard wins the contest if he saves the phone booth + 12 foot dunk for last. Since it was clear the judges were going to send Robinson and Howard to the final no matter what, he could have done pretty much anything in the first round.

Can't wait to see LeBron next year. Hope he doesn't back out.


[quote name='Triskele' post='1687124' date='Feb 14 2009, 21.10']For the love of all that is holy who the fuck is this God-forsaken "band" playing this "Let it Rock" song in between the 3-point and dunk contests?[/quote]
That was truly terrible. Yet I couldn't change the channel.



Slurk,

Why don't you watch the All-Star game. I love it, every year. Loved it again this year.

It was great to see Shaq go out with such a great performance. That dance he did with the Jabbawockeez was nuts. The big guy can move.


[quote name='Slurktan' post='1685853' date='Feb 13 2009, 12.26'][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3905146[/url]

So the trade has finally gone through and thankfully without the rumoured draft pick going to Miami as well. Good trade for both teams I think. Marion gives us rebounding and defense at a position we need it at (unlike JO) and if he doesn't work out, oh well he's gone at the end of the year anyways. Banks is supposedly a defensive guard which will be nice to have for once for situational play.

Miami gets a solid big man (make no mistake JO when healthy this year has played very well) and Moon. I hate Moon for his utter stupidity but he does get some steals here and there with his long arms. I will miss JO though as I think when he played he brought something we also needed and that was intensity. Hard fouls and trash talk. Underrated in players these days.[/quote]
This trade gets a big meh from me. It gets one team rid of what it wanted to be rid of and gives the other sort of what it needed.

It's no secret that I'm not the biggest JO fan on the planet. That hasn't changed. He improves Miami, but only into a second round playoff loss rather than a first one. Depending on who their opponent was going to be, they might have already been good enough to get to the second round. Also, I don't really think this trade gets them to the 50 win mark. We'll be better able to judge this team after they get Cleveland and Boston twice each in the first two weeks or so of March.

For Toronto, I like the trade a bit better because it does get them out from under JO's contract and because Marion's deal expires after this year. But I just don't think Marion's that good anymore. He'll look better in Toronto because they play a faster pace than Miami, but he's getting old. His quickness and athleticism are fading, and when those go, what's he left with? A bad jumper?

Still, now Toronto's free to pursue whomever they like this offseason. The question is, who can they get who's good enough to convince Bosh to stick around past next year?




It looks like the Amare deal is dead. Apparently Gentry wants to keep him around. I guess we'll see how serious the Suns are about cutting cap.

Oh well. Thought he would have been a steal for the Bulls for just Gooden and Thomas. Even adding Sefalosha in, that looks like a steal. Still, Thomas has been playing out of his mind, so I won't mind keeping him around. As a Bulls fan though, I've gotta wonder if he's actually developing into a solid player, or if he'll return to his old ways in a month or so.





Hearing interesting things about Portland. Apparently, they've got their choice of Richard Jefferson, Caron Butler, and Gerald Wallace for the package of Sergio Rodriguez, Batum and LaFrentz's contract.

Of those three, I want Butler. Seems like kind of a no-brainer actually. Thoughts?

[Sir Thursday]

I thought Washington had said they wouldn't be trading Butler? Sure I read that somewhere...


Sir Thursday

[add-on]

[quote name='Sir Thursday' post='1689547' date='Feb 17 2009, 11.03']I thought Washington had said they wouldn't be trading Butler? Sure I read that somewhere...


Sir Thursday[/quote]
I was pretty sure I'd read that before too, but a couple of ESPN's writers were saying this morning that he's up for grabs for Portland. Though reading the latest, it looks like Jefferson is the most likely? Hmmmm.






And it looks like Chandler's being moved.

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3913301"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3913301[/url]


New Orleans clearing cap space. OKC hoping Chandler finds his game again. They're putting some nice pieces together over there. As the rest of the West ages, watch out for these guys in a couple of years.

My money's on them being the media darling going into next year, depending on how they finish out this season.

[Arakasi]

Some more weird trade rumors from today. Houston proposed McGrady for Carter and Hassell, which seems okay I guess if you like the Nets want to shed contracts earlier. But then the Nets didn't like that and countered with Carter and Boone for Battier, Head, Landry and Artest. Honestly not knowing wtf the Nets are thinking there. Houston would have to be idiots to take that.

Also some rumors of a Jamison to the Cavs deal being worked on.

[add-on]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1689913' date='Feb 17 2009, 16.21']Also some rumors of a Jamison to the Cavs deal being worked on.[/quote]
Really? Thought that was just one of the trades Chad Ford was saying [i]should[/i] happen (I'm sure I don't need to remind any of you that I've been saying that for what, months now? :P). In other words, they were just scenarios that he was making up and were unlikely to happen.

I keep hearing that Cleveland's most likely going to stand pat.