Visual Design

[Nightwatcher]

I'm wondering what sort of visual images Benioff and Weiss have in mind for the pilot, and by extension, the series. IMO many aspects of Westeros don't have expected medieval qualities; ie the Wall, Godswoods, very elaborate armor, the monsterous size of Harrenhall being a few examples.

For LOTR, Peter Jackson made the right action in enlisting Alan Lee and John Howe. Now Westeros in my mind bears little resemblance to Middle Earth in many ways, including the look of the settings. To me, Westeros settings bear more realism, but not to the degree that they could be lifted straight from real European examples from 600-900 years ago.

I think that using The Art of ASOIAF would be a good starting point. I'm more concerned about the architecture than perhaps anything else. Steve Stone's Winterfell is a really good one, I think. Also, how are the Others, dragons, and the tricks of the Faceless Men going to look like (assuming it gets that far)?

And I'm sure that there are fans here with artistic ability who would jump at the oppurtunity of involvement if given the chance.

Any thoughts?

[Frank Stark]

Sadly, I don't have the "The Art of..." book, and now I want it even more than before.

Architecture: My impression has always been the look isn't dramatically different than real-life castles and cities, but it's the scale or location that gives it a fantastical edge. Well, with a few exceptions, like Dragonstone. Or the "melted" look of Harrenhal. Winterfell is a really big sprawling castle, but towers are still towers, etc. The Eyrie is small and tightly clustered.

Dragons: I think that Martin has referred to them as having the 2-legged look, but unless that's important for the plot somewhere along the way, I don't care if they do 4-legged ones. They are all neck and tail, at least when young, with very little body.

Others: tall, thin and pale, moving in silent grace. icy looking armor and blades. Sadly, all I can think of is the dead elves from the Dead Marshes in Jackson's Two Towers, but I don't think that's right at all. I think they need a unique look from anything seen in recent movie fantasy. The one piece of art I saw online didn't look quite right to me either (don't have a reference, sorry). I think I'd vote for full helms, or at least half helms, so you don't see their faces. At first anyway. And I think it would be freakish scary if they got the dead horse mount right for the one scene.

Faceless Man changing face: In the books, this is some level of magic, right? If the TV show wants to stick with that, I'm fine with Jaqen moving his hands over his face and it just changing.

[Venardhi]

The two legged look for the dragons is important for me in that it makes it a creature of evolution, and not necessarily of magical origins. There are no six-limbed vertebrates currently living, or having ever lived, as far as we know. Making them 2-legged gives them an immediate plausibility that the more fantastical version lacks.

[Nightwatcher]

Well, the cover to ADwD has that 4 legged "Wales" look-alike dragon on the cover :P .

Actually, I also prefer the two legged look. Again, there are some nice examples in "The Art of" book. IMO, as they are obvious examples of fantasy elements in the story, I wouldn't want them looking run-of-the-mill.

[Venardhi]

Run of the mill in the sense that they look just like every other fantasy movie/show? Or run of the mill like it could have come out of our world? If it is the latter I must disagree most vehemently. There is nothing less interesting than an obviously fake CGIcreature that could never exist in our world because it reminds us we aren't in the real world. I want my dragons to have dirt and grime and defects and realistic anatomy and in general just be viable as biological creatures. The dinosaurs in Jurassic Park weren't so acclaimed because they looked fantastical, but because they looked real. Dragonheart couldn't do that, Eragon couldn't, but neither of them were aiming for 'real', and that is what we need.

[Rinso]

Since the dragons are described as two-legged, they [i]should [/i]be two-legged, there is absolutely no point of change here.
Anyway, the dragons will be relatively easy to make at least until a potential season 3. They will become harder to create when they become big enough to look like a mountable creatures.
The direwolves will be harder than the dragons, I think.

As for the overall design of the show, I personally don't want [i]too[/i] Earthly-resembling medieval look. I mean, of course the basic things like armor, castles, weapons etc. should look properly, but the creators must bear in mind that this is fantasy show, not historical movie. Yes, fantasy that is very grounded in reality, but still, [i]fantasy[/i], not [i]history[/i]. I wouldn't mind if the armors look a bit more impressive or bulky, or fancy, or elaborate when needed than real-history ones; same with weapons.

[Venardhi]

As long as they still look viable in a realistic world I have no problem with that. It is when you start having armor or weapons that look too big, heavy, elaborate and cumbersome for battle that I draw the line.

[Rinso]

That's why I said "a bit". I'm not saying that they should have shoulder pads, each of which is bigger than their upper torso, like say... "WarCraft" and "Warhammer", just that they should not feel trouble to make more interesting looks than real history ones. They must be plausible, of course, but it just shouldn't be forgotten that this is fantasy, not a history.

[Ran]

George is heavily inspired by the Middle Ages, and can cite specific kinds of armor that are appropriate to the setting. Historical armor is pretty interesting, and rarely really seen on screen as it is, so I don't really think they should be striving to "out do" history.

As it is, George added more visual flair than historical armor had, through the heavy use of enammels and paints and slightl magical processes to add lots of color.

[Hinkle]

when i read some of the more elaborate armors i wondered how on earth they'd do it; Rhaegar's ruby armor, Loras' flower...cape thing, gilded armor; it just sounds so expensive @.@ i hope they can make them look as luxurious as described though. i don't suppose it will be too hard for castles and cities because they're not always stood outside it... looking! i imagine Winterfell to be big and then King's landing, giant! and then... well... i don't know how they'll show a feast in Harrenhal if there is one, mega CG should hopefully suffice.

[Brude]

[quote name='Hinkle' post='1659143' date='Jan 23 2009, 02.54']when i read some of the more elaborate armors i wondered how on earth they'd do it; Rhaegar's ruby armor, Loras' flower...cape thing, gilded armor; it just sounds so expensive @.@[/quote]
Well, it's not cheap but probably not as expensive as you might imagine. Movie armor is typically made out of fiberglass (or some such easily molded substance), coated with metallic paints or whatever process they use to create the metal effect. The C3PO costumes in the Star Wars movies is made of fiberglass. It's a lot easier and cheaper to work in those substances than in actual metal.

[quote name='Hinkle' post='1659143' date='Jan 23 2009, 02.54']i hope they can make them look as luxurious as described though. i don't suppose it will be too hard for castles and cities because they're not always stood outside it... looking! i imagine Winterfell to be big and then King's landing, giant! and then... well... i don't know how they'll show a feast in Harrenhal if there is one, mega CG should hopefully suffice.[/quote]
The way to do it is use a little bit of CGI for establishing shots, etc. and do the rest on smaller sets or found locations that fit the bill. A little bit of CGI can go a long way if used well. If they are doing the opening sequence as written in what I read they will have to model Winterfell, the Eyrie, the Wall/Castle Black and all of Kings Landing anyway - they can use those same models from different angles for establishing shots, too.

[Hinkle]

oh yeah! models! they did that with Gormenghast and i think it worked. they put the model in a big vat of water for a "murkier" effect n_n it did give it a strangeness.

yeah i'm quite confident it will look good, really. i imagine the budget to be ample with the right balance of models and cgi as you say n.n it helps that it's not fantasy to the point of majority of characters being elves or dwarves.

[Heartsbane]

I worry about this stuff all the time. I'm fed up of cheap (or simply lacklustre) costumes and sets.

But then I thank god it's HBO doing this, probably the only company I feel safe with. I'm British, and I'm not slating our beloved BBC, but the BBC has got the talent and staff, but HBO's got those plus the all important ingredient - cash!

Experiences with Rome will prove that they'll do things properly, such as the Roman cavalry not having stirrups as they weren't invented then. If HBO notice and add little details like this, I'm sure they'll put just as much effort into Thrones.

One thing I really hope they do is put a lot of effort into the assorted heraldry we hear of in the books. I can't wait to see the battle on the Green Fork. I don't just want the Lion of Lannister fluttering above the ranks of Westermen, I want to see the Crakehall Boar, the Lydden Badger and the dogs of Clegane. I don't want Tyrion charging into unmarked spearmen, I want to see the Karstark sunburst and the heraldry of which ever knight he fights (don't think he's named, though I always assumed from his injuries it was Lord Celwyn). Anyway, yeah, keep the faith :)

[fitheach]

I agree with Heartsbane, HBO/BBC did a great job with Rome. As long as ASIF has a realistic look- a bit dirty and run down (when appropriate) .
Think of the first Alien, or Blade Runner- and the run down sci/fi look that changed the way we saw the future... I think the best way to go is so realistic that the scenes that are harsh (Tyrion, a crossbow, and his father), or emotionally beautiful (think of Dany riding her horse with the people chanting mother in many languages)- have such impact that it takes the viewers breath away....This goes way farther than a cleaned up-shiny fantasy look.

Make it real and the people will come.....

[Rinso]

The LotR movies took visual ideas from Alan Lee and John Howe. ASoIaF may take some from Michael Komarck.

[Frank Stark]

The calendar guy? That's cool; it'll still be new art to most of us... ;)

[fitheach]

woops, already posted. Sorry.

[The_Black_Fish]

The animals in the story are going to plague the producers when they get too big. They will have to pay through the but for CGI or get a crappy result.