Ser King Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 [quote](NECN/ABC) - Israel is accelerating its pullout from Gaza -- more tanks came back into Israel this morning. It was the first night for three weeks without Israeli shelling in Gaza and so far a day without Hamas rockets falling in Israel. So, a chance for displaced Palestinians to go back to their homes -- or what is left of them. Sifting through the wreckage for anything they can find. They found another 12 bodies today. It was also a chance for the politicians to emerge -- From Hamas-- despite all the death and destruction -- a claim of victory against Israel. [b]And in Israel, President Shimon Peres, not the only Israeli politician to visit injured soldiers today, thanking them for their part in Israel's victory over Hamas.[/b] [size=6][b] lol[/b][/size] ABC went to the Palestinian village of Johar Deek, as its people returned to see the damage caused by Israel's tanks and bulldozers -- there wasn't much left. The Israeli army set up a command center in these houses. In this kitchen, evidence of vandalism, and outside the signs of intense shooting by Israeli forces. In Kuwait, Arab leaders gathered, in part to raise funds for Gaza's reconstruction - a billion dollars already pledged by the Saudi King - but for that cash to work - this ceasefire will need to last and a deal to open Gaza's borders will have to be struck. To address the immediate humanitarian crisis, Israeli government officials are promising, if the ceasefire holds - a significant increase[/quote] [url="http://www.necn.com/Boston/World/2009/01/19/Israel-to-pull-out-of-Gaza-by/1232386340.html"]http://www.necn.com/Boston/World/2009/01/1...1232386340.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryphon strike Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 So lets see people are going to send money to reconstruct Gaza now the Isreali's are pulling out. Yet the problem still exists, in other words Hamas survived so whats the point in sending money and aid? Seriously we all know what will happen, Hamas will start firing rockets again and the Isreali's will be forced to do the same again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellis Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 In other news, Obama suppresses sigh of relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samalander Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='gryphon strike' post='1654545' date='Jan 20 2009, 01.14']1) So lets see people are going to send money to reconstruct Gaza now the Isreali's are pulling out. Yet the problem still exists, in other words Hamas survived so whats the point in sending money and aid? 2) Seriously we all know what will happen, Hamas will start firing rockets again and the Isreali's will be forced to do the same again.[/quote] 1) The trick is, to send the money to the PA or some international relief group, just as long it's not Hamas doing the giving. Saudi Arabia pledged one billion!!! dollars to Gaza. They just negleted to say who they are actually going to hand the money over to... I'm pretty sure Iran can't outdo the one billion dollar offer but they are going to be throwing a lot of money Hamas' way right now. So, it's going to be a money race between moderates and fanatics to rebuild Gaza (better than an arms race, though). 2) Not likely, in the near future: a. Hamas got a lot of flak from their population. They are not going to risk Israeli strikes any time soon. b. New understandings with Egypt will ensure their full cooperation in preventing any smuggling from their side. No smuggling = No rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 So naive. I suspect there'll be a resurgence of suicide bombings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Isn't the PA controlled by Fatah? So isn't giving them money just lining a bunch of pockets, with the occasional trickle down to the actual people it's supposed to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatesta Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='gryphon strike' post='1654545' date='Jan 20 2009, 07.14']So lets see people are going to send money to reconstruct Gaza now the Isreali's are pulling out. Yet the problem still exists, in other words Hamas survived so whats the point in sending money and aid? Seriously we all know what will happen, Hamas will start firing rockets again and the Isreali's will be forced to do the same again.[/quote] Yeah rockets that Hamas didn't actually shoot in the first place will [b]force[/b] the regions super power to obliterate the area again instead of just strangle holding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendetto Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Malatesta' post='1654698' date='Jan 19 2009, 19.09']Yeah rockets that Hamas didn't actually shoot in the first place will [b]force[/b] the regions super power to obliterate the area again instead of just strangle holding it.[/quote] Calling Israel a superpower is just funny. And Hamas did shoot them, and did say they wouldn't stop. Israel was perfectly just in their decision to invade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Malatesta' post='1654698' date='Jan 19 2009, 18.09']Yeah rockets that Hamas didn't actually shoot in the first place[/quote] What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khaleesi Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Vendetto' post='1654703' date='Jan 20 2009, 15.14']Calling Israel a superpower is just funny. And Hamas did shoot them, and did say they wouldn't stop. Israel was perfectly just in their decision to invade.[/quote] But was the Israeli government and IDF perfectly just in killing hundreds of civilians? in shelling UN schools and a compund? In Israeli soldiers taking over a house in a village, knocking the rest down and spray painting "Death to all arabs" on the walls? In preventing the Red Cross coming to the aid of badly injured children in a house that had been shelled? I think they went way over the top. And how came they suddenly decide it's all over and pull out just in time for the inaugeration? I mean - what changed on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Well both sides are claiming victory which is not surprising. Hopefully the ceasefire will last long enough for some sort of rebuilding process to get underway. Over 50,000 people homeless and around 400,000 without water. Many, many tragic stories are now coming out. [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7838465.stm"]This[/url] one is especially heartbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatesta Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Vendetto' post='1654703' date='Jan 20 2009, 10.14']Calling Israel a superpower is just funny. And Hamas did shoot them, and did say they wouldn't stop. Israel was perfectly just in their decision to invade.[/quote] Israel is the super power of the region. Hamas didn't break the ceasefire - according to Israel. Israel killed Hamas members on the 4th - the start of this period of the violence. You are perfectly deluded about basic moral principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rane Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='gryphon strike' post='1654545' date='Jan 19 2009, 21.14']So lets see people are going to send money to reconstruct Gaza now the Isreali's are pulling out. Yet the problem still exists, in other words Hamas survived so whats the point in sending money and aid? Seriously we all know what will happen, Hamas will start firing rockets again and the Isreali's will be forced to do the same again.[/quote] What's the point? The palestinians that lost their homes (4.000 houses destroyed, 17.000 damaged) should do what then? Lie down and resign to their fate? What about those dying in hospitals, those starving? Israel should lift the blockade and help improve these peoples lives, not tighten the blockade even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendetto Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Malatesta' post='1654715' date='Jan 19 2009, 19.24']Israel is the super power of the region. Hamas didn't break the ceasefire - according to Israel. Israel killed Hamas members on the 4th - the start of this period of the violence. You are perfectly deluded about basic moral principles.[/quote] Hmmm, I'm deluded? So you're saying that it's wrong for a group, that's recognized by many countries as terrorist, to get their ass kicked by Israel for shooting rockets into Israel? Wow. According to Israel, hamas broke the original cease fire, and even continued firing rockets into Israel AFTER the new one was made. If the people of Palestine want the bloodshed to end, they need to rise up and throw Hamas out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendetto Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='rANE' post='1654739' date='Jan 19 2009, 19.45']What's the point? The palestinians that lost their homes (4.000 houses destroyed, 17.000 damaged) should do what then? Lie down and resign to their fate? What about those dying in hospitals, those starving? Israel should lift the blockade and help improve these peoples lives, not tighten the blockade even more.[/quote] They have been letting aide in. I'm sure the Japanese have said the same in the past, and the vietnamese, and the koreans, and every other group of innocent people who were victims of collateral damage in wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote]According to Israel[/quote] :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='The Khaleesi' post='1654709' date='Jan 19 2009, 22.20']But was the Israeli government and IDF perfectly just in killing hundreds of civilians? in shelling UN schools and a compund? In Israeli soldiers taking over a house in a village, knocking the rest down and spray painting "Death to all arabs" on the walls? In preventing the Red Cross coming to the aid of badly injured children in a house that had been shelled? I think they went way over the top. And how came they suddenly decide it's all over and pull out just in time for the inaugeration? I mean - what changed on the ground?[/quote] No matter the justification of any war or invasion, there will always be inhumane acts. None of that stuff has anything to do with the original justification. The acts you listed are certainly atrocious, but irrelevant to the original point. There will always be isolated incidents that are "over the top". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendetto Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1654754' date='Jan 19 2009, 20.01']No matter the justification of any war or invasion, there will always be inhumane acts. None of that stuff has anything to do with the original justification. The acts you listed are certainly atrocious, but irrelevant to the original point. There will always be isolated incidents that are "over the top".[/quote] Just look at the U.S. soldiers in iraq if you want to see over the top... Or guantanamo bay... -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Vendetto' post='1654763' date='Jan 19 2009, 23.11']Just look at the U.S. soldiers in iraq if you want to see over the top... Or guantanamo bay... -_-[/quote] No kidding. There are incidents like this in every war. Humans do strange things in times of war or other situations of power and authority. See the Stanford Prison Experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsdale! Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 [quote name='Malatesta' post='1654698' date='Jan 19 2009, 22.09']Yeah rockets that Hamas didn't actually shoot in the first place will [b]force[/b] the regions super power to obliterate the area again instead of just strangle holding it.[/quote] So Hamas didn't shoot the rockets? And if they didn't shoot the rockets why do they keep saying they shot the rockets, and that they will continue to shoot the rockets? Who did shoot the rockets then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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