Kalbear Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Heck, I'm happy with it - I got to test out my dps last night. That was fun! And will likely lead to very quick nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceBannon42 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Yeah, I was expecting you to go Bear. Was suprised when you didn't I blame the damn Witchaloks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 [quote]Yeah, I was expecting you to go Bear. Was suprised when you didn't[/quote]At the time it wouldn't matter. My threat generation when I'm not getting hit is pretty meh, and a lot of the melee were well ahead of me. Even if I went bear I wasn't going to get ahead of you guys any time soon. Like I said, the only way it could've worked would have been to have all melee that was above me on threat step out of range and then have me start taking hatefuls. Next time that happens I'll try and be more clear. Honestly I just wasn't thinking about it that much and was hoping I'd get lucky on a dodged hateful so I could switch to bear when I got the aggro warning or saw my name on the list. Clearly that didn't happen. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhelanArcetus Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I haven't attended that raid... I think they have multiple tanks who are just bad, which definitely facilitates dps eating hatefuls through higher threat. Likewise bad healers facilitating it by getting hateful tanks killed off quickly. The tank should not be going into his meters to figure out who was healing him (doesn't help that one of the healers in guild is refusing to talk to him). I would not be surprised at all if at least some dps were out-threating one or more of the offtanks. Hell, one of the people healing him was at one point spamming Binding Heal on him. Binding Heal. On Patchwerk. Spammed, not hit once by accident, but spammed. I can be confident in a 10-man that no melee dps is going to eat hatefuls. I know and trust all the tank options. Nobody without a significant gear advantage is going to make 2nd melee threat over a tank. In a 25-man which I only know to contain 4 competent people? Yeah, I expect a lot of failure. I also gather there was confusion about who was healing who, and so on. And they, a raid group which has repeatedly cleared Naxx 25, wiped on Patchwerk repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 [quote]While I haven't attended that raid... I think they have multiple tanks who are just bad, which definitely facilitates dps eating hatefuls through higher threat. Likewise bad healers facilitating it by getting hateful tanks killed off quickly.[/quote]Okay, that's fine - but all melee dipping into the slime does is make the overkill on the hateful greater when it does hit them. Either they'll be targeted because they have more health than the other tank does, they won't be (and that other tank will). There's no real other thing. I guess they could get lucky and have a tank take a hit, then take another that would've gone to them because they've got so low health - but that will almost certainly just kill the tank unless that tank's a druid or DK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRose Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Here's an opinion on the new [url="http://www.file-upload.net/view-1417578/lol-.jpg.html"]warlock summoning portal[/url] :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote]Patchwerk will target one of the top 3 threat characters in range of him. He will only target the one with aggro if there is no one else around. He will then pick the one of those two remaining who has the highest health and target them. He then hatefuls which adds a ton of threat to those three and selects again. If there are three tanks who are all at the top of the threat list (or at least above all other melee), no other characters will ever be targeted. Ever. It doesn't matter if your melee has 60 billion health; if they aren't in the top three, they'll never, ever be targeted. On 10-man, it's the top 2. So don't dip in the slime or click off fort unless you have melee that can't pay attention to their threat or you have OTs that can't do a lot of threat. In which case you're still likely to die anyway, you'll just possibly die a bit later.[/quote] Ya, this. Also, as a healer, if you have decent gear, use your fast heals on the tank. We run with a 5-6 healer setup for Naxx, one healer normally being a paladin with beacon. Get some haste as well, it really helps. I used to spam Gheals on this fight, but with my current haste and with ele shaman totems, which we had last night, FH was far better, spammed together with ProM on the CD and even the odd CoH to try and proc inspiration across the tanks. The paladin's Beacon will make the healing smoother as well. I am fairly certain our shammies were CHing every now and then too. We were 12 seconds off the achievement, which I think we could have done had not one of our DPS warriors been extremely trigger happy in the beginning. Apart from that, it is about topping up the tank almost the second before he gets hit. The faster you top up the OT/ OTs (yes, you can do Patch 25 with only one OT, but you need to be even faster to save melee), the safer your melee will be. We've had some fucked attempts where one of our tanks pulled before we had healing assignments done, and we lost 1-3 melee, but after that, with 3 healers on the MT and 3 on the OT, you can stabilise it if you are fast enough. This does not allow a lot of lag tho, which is normally the larger issue. :/ I'd say Patch is more a tank fight than a healer fight. It gets soooo much easier when your tanks are geared. Oh and you need to divide the healers before and have them know their assignments. There is no time for confusion. If you have 6 healers, divide them 2-2-2 as he normally hits the OTs harder than the MT. Meaning your best geared tanks should normally be OTs if there is a gear disparity. It's also good to have shamans or priests on the OTs as they can both grant the armour buff. A quick check in our WWS from yesterday's Patch says he hits the MT (feral dr00d) for 9.5k melee, and our OT (prot pally) for a 22k hateful. As our tanks are pretty equally geared we just let him settle on whomever. The basic healing strategy is very easy after that: You precast on the pull, and then you continue to spam your biggest heals/fastest heals until he dies without going oom and without switching targets. As kalbear pointed out above, the hateful strikes themselves generate aggro, so once the OTs have eaten a hateful strike each, it is normally fine for melee to jump in, guns blazing. However, with high avoidance tanks, you want to be a bit careful as they may dodge/parry/block. I'm fairly certain this negates the threat generated from Patch's hateful strikes, so it may be something to keep an eye out for. (I'm sure Kal or Stego can confirm/deny.) He can hit something like once a second, good ole Patch, so it shouldn't take long until the OTs have eaten a hateful. But in cases like with Race, well geared tanks may actually make this harder for the DPS if the hateful strike threat mechanics doesn't work due to avoidance. [quote]Binding Heal. On Patchwerk. Spammed, not hit once by accident, but spammed.[/quote] The only possible reason for that I can think of is that binding heal has a higher coefficient than flash heal, but is just as fast. Still, it is hardly mana efficient and I don't think I've ever felt the need to use it there. He may be using it as a Gheal substitute in order to proc HC or IHC tho, which makes more sense. I'd just use Gheal instead and chain them. Works well enough. In other words, we started practising on Sarth +3 last night. Quite amusing, in a sort of masochistic way. We had some issues with our MT on Sarth dying before Shadron landed. We had a rotation worked out for when we would have both Vesperon and Shadron up, but we never really got to the stage where it was meaningful for me (I was third) to rush off and put GS on the MT. Our main issue apart from a lot of fiddling with positioning, lag, people lagging out while standing in shadow fissures, shadowfissures spawning in the lava (!!) and the MT getting breathed badly way too early was that our tank on Tenebron couldn't get enough aggro quickly, and we had either DPS overaggroing, or DPS being too slow on him (as they had to hold back), meaning we had a tendency to get overwhelmed by adds when drake 2 showed up. Kal and Steg, what OT do you have on the drakes? We use a warrior MT on Sarth, a pally for the flame adds and a feral druid as drake tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Lyanna Stark' post='1668005' date='Jan 30 2009, 04.21']Kal and Steg, what OT do you have on the drakes? We use a warrior MT on Sarth, a pally for the flame adds and a feral druid as drake tank.[/quote] We use a bear on Sarth (Best choice) a warrior on drakes, and a pally on adds. (Plus second warrior when not on drake.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhelanArcetus Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well I found out another problem with that 25-man Patchwerk. One undegeared priest solo-healing one of the hateful tanks. Yeah, that's a good idea. We blew through all 4 wings last night, but Sapphiron cockblocked us and we decided to come back tonight. It didn't help that half the time, most of the raid wasn't getting the frost resist totem because it was dropped too far back, and something like 6 of the dps/healers were not wearing any frost resist at all. Well, the arcane mage might have been ok with Mage Armor up. Plus the boomkin seemed incapable of surviving an air phase. Picked up two sets of plate shoulders and the repelling charge. Unfortunately, while the passive on the Charge is better than the passive on the Seal of the Pantheon, I consider the mini-last stand far inferior to the armor cooldown, but I'll put it on in my main set as well as my threat/dps set. Since I wasn't prevented from getting a spore on Loatheb, I managed to roll up to 1,400 or so on Deep Wounds. The fire mage reached nearly 9,000 on ignite. And afterwards I even managed to get my database server back up and running (I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumarumo Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hey, just another technical problem from me again. I logged on, and this "installing updates" screen came up. I thought "fine", let it do its thing, but at the end it told me I needed to download some patch or other. Again, I let it do it's thing, except the patch was roughly 90% downloaded, when this came up: "The patch "base\signaturefile" could not be applied. (CRC mismatch: expected 0x3075bc52, actual 0xbb716ab0.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate::PTCApply) To check this installation for problems, click the "Repair" button. The Repair tool can automatically fix many update errors." I tried the repair tool, which takes its time and then tells me it's been repaired, cept when I log on I get the same thing again. Tried it twice. Now I know it tells me to uninstall and reinstall the game, but due to my low internet speeds and the fact that I have only two days left on the trial, I'd rather avoid that if at all possible. Anyone else had this problem? Or could it be something to do with my being a trial customer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoN Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ugh. I've got nothing on that one. A guildie of mine had some error installing the last content patch, the repair tool didn't work and he did end up reinstalling his game. No advice, but I wish you luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumarumo Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmm. Think I may just download the game proper from the website altogether. I've grown too attached to my rogue to stop playing him at level 18 :P Thanks anyway, GoM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It's probably faster to just get a copy of the game on a CD. Then you can reinstall it fairly quickly if you need :) Hope it works out tho, reinstalling WoW is always such a pain. [quote]We use a bear on Sarth (Best choice) a warrior on drakes, and a pally on adds. (Plus second warrior when not on drake.)[/quote] Hmm, EJ recommended a warrior for Sarth, so he could shieldwall through the first breath once shadron lands. We've only got one priest and one holy paladin, so we don't really have a lot of CDs for his nasty breath phase. Can a druid live through those without use of long CDs like GS/PS or Sacrifice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhelanArcetus Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 That assumes no cats puncture your CDs. Took us a while of the installer getting stuck to actually look at the disc, and then we gaped at the damage it had taken. From how your download speed sounded before, picking up a retail box might well do better than downloading the installer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobin Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 My sister picked up the WoW battlechest at walmart for about $40 - had both the orgininal and Burning Crusade disks as well as the prima guides for each. All she had to do then was buy Wrath and she was fully caught up. I've always been squirrelly about using the DLoad method for getting a game - I live in fear of my HD melting. Having install discs is the way to go, especially the DVD versions - then you don't have to do the whole "Insert Disc X of X" crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote]A quick check in our WWS from yesterday's Patch says he hits the MT (feral dr00d) for 9.5k melee, and our OT (prot pally) for a 22k hateful. As our tanks are pretty equally geared we just let him settle on whomever.[/quote]So you purposely put the best OT tank on MT duty? Craziness. [quote]The basic healing strategy is very easy after that: You precast on the pull, and then you continue to spam your biggest heals/fastest heals until he dies without going oom and without switching targets. As kalbear pointed out above, the hateful strikes themselves generate aggro, so once the OTs have eaten a hateful strike each, it is normally fine for melee to jump in, guns blazing. However, with high avoidance tanks, you want to be a bit careful as they may dodge/parry/block. I'm fairly certain this negates the threat generated from Patch's hateful strikes, so it may be something to keep an eye out for. (I'm sure Kal or Stego can confirm/deny.)[/quote]They continue to generate threat regardless of whether you miss or not. The act of doing a hateful generates the threat. [quote]In other words, we started practising on Sarth +3 last night. Quite amusing, in a sort of masochistic way. We had some issues with our MT on Sarth dying before Shadron landed.[/quote]Before...Shadron landed? How is that even possible? I mean, he's not hitting for small amounts but it's not hard damage at all before Shadron lands, on any one. [quote]Hmm, EJ recommended a warrior for Sarth, so he could shieldwall through the first breath once shadron lands. We've only got one priest and one holy paladin, so we don't really have a lot of CDs for his nasty breath phase. Can a druid live through those without use of long CDs like GS/PS or Sacrifice?[/quote]No, EJ really didn't recommend that. Some random bad player on EJ might've, but that's certainly not the general consensus. A warrior is not the worst choice, but they may need to use cooldowns to survive breaths during Shadron's acolyte phase. They need to use their biggest cooldowns to survive one breath in Vesperon's phase. Shadron landing isn't a problem, really; with him and his acolyte up the breaths hit for about 25-30k. That's survivable (barely) by a well-geared warrior, but it's trivial for a stam-stacking druid. I've gotten to the point where I just need to be a smidgen lucky and I'll survive Vesperon's breaths with no cooldowns. Or I can make sure and use barkskin for one, SI for another, and hopefully penance or nightmare seed/Fire prot pot for a third. If I have to eat a 4th, hopefully barkskin will be up. I also stack quite a bit of FR gear, so that helps too. If you don't do FR gear, the only option without external cooldowns is a DK. It used to be that you could do the twilight torment dance, where you could hit the mob right before the breath landed and clear the debuff. That meant basically any tank could do it without cooldowns (or without big ones) since they'd take 75% less damage. They fixed that in 3.0.8. Now the best choice is a well-geared DK, since they can pop cooldowns for basically any breath and have better HP than warriors or paladins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Kilimaro Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Tobin' post='1668370' date='Jan 30 2009, 12.44']I've always been squirrelly about using the DLoad method for getting a game - I live in fear of my HD melting. Having install discs is the way to go, especially the DVD versions - then you don't have to do the whole "Insert Disc X of X" crap.[/quote] Blizzard is pretty good about it. Once your account is set up, you can download whatever client they know you've got a CD-key for already. So if for example you lose your discs or whatever, or even if your hard drive melts and you've downloaded it before, you can download the stuff again. Take it from me - when I was having computer problems and having to reinstall the game constantly... my DVD drive had ceased working so I must have gotten that Wrath download four or five times. Pretty handy, actually. It doesn't go as fast when you have to download but it's free so it's better than nothing. My laptop finally gave up the ghost with regards to playing WOW, incidentally. I gave up and decided it was time to buy myself a new desktop thanks to Uncle Sam giving me a tax refund. A max of 8 FPS with absolute minimum settings to 60 FPS at the maximum, from 1-2 FPS max in Dalaran to 40 FPS in Dalaran has been a shocking change. I am loving it. Wintergrasp without lag, raiding without lag... I never knew a simple Fireball spell could look so beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Kalbear' post='1668395' date='Jan 30 2009, 13.02']They need to use their biggest cooldowns to survive one breath in Vesperon's phase. Shadron landing isn't a problem, really; with him and his acolyte up the breaths hit for about 25-30k. That's survivable (barely) by a well-geared warrior, but it's trivial for a stam-stacking druid.[/quote] I have only done ten man Sarth+3 as the the Sarth tank, (I offtank drakes/adds in 25) but I tell you that with best-in-slot gear in every slot but my bracers, I could not survive the breaths during Vesp without external cooldowns. Last stand worked if I was [i]completely[/i] topped off, and of course shield wall worked, but then I was fooked. The fact that a druid has a very good chance to survive every single hit with their own health pool is too good to be overlooked. As far as using a DK tank -- it's all theoretical. Outside Kurokaze, I've never seen one that had the slightest clue how to tank. So hunting after the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is probably not the right idea when you already have a bear. I would say, with confidence, that while it can be done with a Pally or Warrior, they should be distant third choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhelanArcetus Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 [quote name='Mack Kilimaro' post='1668434' date='Jan 30 2009, 13.39']Blizzard is pretty good about it. Once your account is set up, you can download whatever client they know you've got a CD-key for already. So if for example you lose your discs or whatever, or even if your hard drive melts and you've downloaded it before, you can download the stuff again. Take it from me - when I was having computer problems and having to reinstall the game constantly... my DVD drive had ceased working so I must have gotten that Wrath download four or five times. Pretty handy, actually. It doesn't go as fast when you have to download but it's free so it's better than nothing.[/quote] Very true. When we discovered the hole in my BC disc 1, it was at a point when we were using mine because my roommate's was missing. Being able to download was a life saver. Though by the time I reinstalled at my end, she'd found her discs, so I just used those for convenience. Of course, if you have a backup drive or a DVD burner, you can probably take the downloads and archive them. I'm pretty sure this only goes for WoW as opposed to Warcraft 1/2/3, Starcraft, and Diablo, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Another BT run, another no Bulwark. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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