Wrestling with The Tudors

[About Yea High]

Or even apt?

As many people know, Showtime - HBO's bastardly little brother (unrelated to HBO's drunk and lascivious step-son, Skinemax) - has a semi-hit with its not-quite-Elizabethan drama series The Tudors. This show has had its ups and downs; it is arguably overwrought and incorrect in much of its drama, yet has shown flashes of brilliance at times. The last two episodes of season two, highlighting the downfall of the Boleyn family (culminating in that most famous of queenly loppages), were in my opinion fantastic portraits of a family on the desperate downslide of power. Riveting, pitiless, gut-wrenching stuff.

The Tudors can move glacially at times (is it really a queen per television season?), and, as most historical dramas do, has taken its share of "artistic liberties." But the costuming is frankly breathtaking, and the darkly elegant sets pull the viewer straight into the 14th Century.

Despite the fact that Game of Thrones is pure fantasy, comparisons will undoubtedly be made. I, for one, welcome them. Game of Thrones has only George R. R. Martin's canon to sate, not the calendar-waggers of historical fact; the pace of Thrones will leave Tudors in the dust. And if the costuming comes anywhere near The Tudors, let's just say that Cersei Lannister's revered bust will be both colorfully highlighted and rightly displayed.

Finally, speaking of British Equity, there's the acting. While certain critics can deride Jonathan Rhys Myers' portrayal of the insanely vain and self-involved Henry VIII as "reckless," I would argue you need a nut to play a really good nut, and Rhys Myers playing self-absorbed and emotionally volatile is not a stretch. And the rest of the cast is spot on - nearly brilliant. Natalie Dormer is exactly the sort I would want for Cersei (alas her brunette roots). Please note the Irish actors! Rhys Myers is Irish, Maria Doyle Kennedy - Queen Katherine of Aragon - is Irish playing a Spaniard princess, wonderfully, and Nick Dunning (yes, Irish) as Thomas Boleyn is the spitting image of Roose Bolton.

Think Game of Thrones can't lure in a few big names? Let's not mention that The Tudors lured Sam Neill in for one season, and Peter freaking O'Toole for another. And this is a Showtime show we're talking about.

The Tudors is good for what it is, and I enjoy it. But done right, Thrones will kick it's ass. HBO wins this fight, hands down. Bring on the comparisons, says I.

Yea!

[Halfhand]

Or even apt?

As many people know, Showtime - HBO's bastardly little brother (unrelated to HBO's drunk and lascivious step-son, Skinemax) - has a semi-hit with its not-quite-Elizabethan drama series The Tudors. This show has had its ups and downs; it is arguably overwrought and incorrect in much of its drama, yet has shown flashes of brilliance at times. The last two episodes of season two, highlighting the downfall of the Boleyn family (culminating in that most famous of queenly loppages), were in my opinion fantastic portraits of a family on the desperate downslide of power. Riveting, pitiless, gut-wrenching stuff.

Agreed. Actually it was the third-to-last episode of season 2 which was probably my favorite so far. The one where Anne miscarries yet again and Henry finally decides that his marriage to her is null and void. A lot of drama, but it was well-done.

The Tudors can move glacially at times (is it really a queen per television season?), and, as most historical dramas do, has taken its share of "artistic liberties." But the costuming is frankly breathtaking, and the darkly elegant sets pull the viewer straight into the 14th Century.

Actually this past season was two queens and the final season will also cover two queens. And yeah, the costuming and set design is great. David & Dan should look into getting whoever handled the production design for the show.

Finally, speaking of British Equity, there's the acting. While certain critics can deride Jonathan Rhys Myers' portrayal of the insanely vain and self-involved Henry VIII as "reckless," I would argue you need a nut to play a really good nut, and Rhys Myers playing self-absorbed and emotionally volatile is not a stretch. And the rest of the cast is spot on - nearly brilliant. Natalie Dormer is exactly the sort I would want for Cersei (alas her brunette roots). Please note the Irish actors! Rhys Myers is Irish, Maria Doyle Kennedy - Queen Katherine of Aragon - is Irish playing a Spaniard princess, wonderfully, and Nick Dunning (yes, Irish) as Thomas Boleyn is the spitting image of Roose Bolton.

Think Game of Thrones can't lure in a few big names? Let's not mention that The Tudors lured Sam Neill in for one season, and Peter freaking O'Toole for another. And this is a Showtime show we're talking about.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind them stealing a bunch of the cast for Thrones. In addition to the ones you mentioned, I was thinking Henry Cavill would make a good Renly. I believe they are filming the last season shortly, so everyone should be available.

[Brude]

First season of The Tudors was not so good, but second was quite good and third has been as well.

Each season has had one major guest star - Sam Neil in the first, O'Toole the second and the third has had Max Von Sydow, though he's only appeared in a few episodes. I think his part was maybe originally supposed to be Peter O'Toole's (who has played the Pope), but Sydow has been playing a high ranking Cardinal. Not too hard to slightly adjust the same dialogue for the Pope to a Cardinal.

James Frain, who plays Cromwell, is maybe the most recognizable other actor in the series, but he's not a major star or anything - just a first rate character actor who gets a lot of work and has done some great theater, but probably isn't terribly expensive.

I think Showtime has a greater need of getting major stars than HBO as they are still playing catch up in terms of the attention their shows get compared to HBO. They've done very well between Weeds and Dexter - Weeds has had quite a few known actors, if not major stars as regulars between Mary Louise Parker, Kevin Nealon and Elizabeth Perkins and Dexter sort'a swiped Michael C. Hall from HBO, as he is known from Six Feet Under. HBO has had fewer big stars in their shows on the whole. Sopranos had only Lorraine Bracco, who was kind of off the map by the time that show started (though she was a former Oscar nominee for Goodfellas). But Rome had no actors who were terribly well known, at least in the States. Maybe they had more of a presence in the U.K., I don't know. I knew who Polly Walker and Max Pirkis were, but I'm not exactly the norm when it comes to knolwedge of these kinds of things.

[Silverstar]

I didn't actually watch the Tudors (I have a strange aversion to watch anything based on that period of history, despite being really interested in it. I think it's due to my highly romantic and almost certainly incorrect family myth that I'm a distant ancestor of the Boleyn family - I don't like seeing them portrayed on screen for some reason).

However, the photographs I saw of the series definitely showed the kind of costumes and sets that I hope AGOT will have, and it sounds like they attracted to pretty good cast, so let's hope AGOT will be similar in that respect, at least :)

[Ran]

I've become quite fond of Sarah Bolger, who plays Princess Mary. I think she could make a very fine Margaery, for example. I was pondering who James Frain could be, but I'm drawing a blank. Linda also thought the fellow playing Edward Seymour has a certain Lannisterish aspect about him.

[iheartseverus]

Why not wonderful James Frain as Littlefinger? Frain as Cromwell had that riveting ability to just stand there while action was going on all around him--you could see in his eyes that his (Cromwell's) brain was moving lightning fast, taking everything and everyone in, thinking, planning, plotting, judging and weighing the situation whilst saying nothing and keeping himself rather small and inconspicuous. To me, he was the shining focal point of this series, and I felt a bit ill last Sunday watching him (badly) beheaded. I'd be deliriously happy if he signed up for Thrones.

[Ran]

I sort of considered that, but I think he has a sort of gravity that perhaps doesn't mesh well with Littlefinger. That said, I've only seen him in a few roles, none of them particularly humorous. Doubtless he could pull it off quite well, though I'm partial to the earlier suggestion of Aidan Gillen or perhaps James Callis.

[iheartseverus]

I sort of considered that, but I think he has a sort of gravity that perhaps doesn't mesh well with Littlefinger. That said, I've only seen him in a few roles, none of them particularly humorous. Doubtless he could pull it off quite well, though I'm partial to the earlier suggestion of Aidan Gillen or perhaps James Callis.

You're right, he does have a natural gravitas. Qyburn, then? Softly, quietly sliding in and out of scenes even whilst saying the most horrific things about his 'work.'

[Commodore]

I tried watching the Tudors, but the Henry character was just plain annoying to me, like watching one of those petulant teenagers from My Super Sweet 16 for an hour.

[moirne]

I completely agree that Game of Thrones will be better than The Tudors. It has the political intrigue in common and it's a costume drama, but that is really where the similarities end. I know that critics will constantly compare them though and it's a good thing if fans of The Tudors tune in to GOT. I wouldn't mind a few actors from The Tudors being cast in GOT. Henry Cavill as Renly would be great. I liked him years ago as Loras, but he's too old for that role now.

[TheEvilKing]

I actually love the Tudors and think Rhys Myers is fantastic as Henry. He cracks me up. Dude could totally play Euron Crow's Eye.

[pfitz]

I quite enjoyed what I've seen of the Tudors (the first two seasons) and it's fun playing spot the Irish actor but I nearly gave up on it right at the start of the first episode as characters arrived in "Tudor" carriages that would be more at home in a Dicken's adaptation :hat:

[moirne]

I nearly gave up on it right at the start of the first episode as characters arrived in "Tudor" carriages that would be more at home in a Dicken's adaptation :hat:

Yeah that is why I don't watch the show. I know so much about that time period and the historical inaccuracies would drive me nuts. Plus I don't like Rhys-Myers as Henry at all.

[About Yea High]

Ironically, I think Jonathan Rhys Myers would play an even better Renly than Henry Cavill (though I wouldn't bitch with either of those men in the role). Rhys Myers as the Crow Eye is awesome too.

Sarah Bolger is brilliant. She can do just-beneath-the-surface longing better than almost any actress I've yet to see, and she can do cold disdain at the snap of a finger. Fans of The Tudors have seen glimpses of the Protestant-purger "Bloody Mary" will one day become. In my view, her talent would be wasted on a Margaery. Unfortunately, she's too old for Sansa and not old enough (and too petite, I think) to play Catelyn; I really don't know another role for her that immediately comes to mind.

James Frain as Qyburn is an excellent suggestion. He has that maester studiousness to him. He could do Gyles Rosby too.

And my latest epiphany: Max Brown, who plays Edward Seymour, as Jaime Lannister. This is an actor who, as has been stated, "has the Lannister look," and from the few things I've seen him in I think we've barely scratched the surface of his talent. There's a lot going on behind those eyes, and that's what you need for Jaime: pride, a nasty competitive streak, and more than a few secrets hidden behind his wide smile.

He just needs better hair (Edward Seymour essentially has a bad mullet).