Harvard professor arrested

[LCOTNW]

Its not my argument. Its swordofthemornings.

He thinks judging an entire population by the actions of some is justifiable. I'm pointing out how ludicrous it is.

And when you make the assumption that these cops did nothing wrong based on how you perceive other cops acting is......

[Jaqen the FatManderly]

Eurytus,

If the officer had confirmed Prof. Gates was a resident and then excused himself we wouldn't be discussing this matter. Instead the officer decided to arrest a man for being, at worst,

... verbally abusive in a vile and slanderous way.

And we might have heard about the incident, if Gates followed up on his veiled or not-so-veiled threats to the officer's career. Or maybe we wouldn't have found out about it, because if Gates had quietly thrown his weight around and gotten the officer fired - well, he's just a cop, who cares, it's just his livelihood, you're not going to hear it on the news.

Maybe it's dumb to arrest the famous guy who's threatening your career and slandering your name, but maybe when you have the facts on your side and a lot of witnesses, making the whole thing public actually protects yourself.

[DanteGabriel]

So you think that generalizing about one body of people is acceptable but others is not. Interesting.

I'd rethink whose argument is "Dopey" if I was you.

Yes, it's really a far stretch to think a cop in an affluent neighborhood treated a black man in an unfair and racist manner just because he arrested that black man for being loud and angry in his own home.

If you disagreed with Sword's logic, it did you no service by going the Full Monty on stupidity and trying to come back with an "all black men must be criminals" counter-argument.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Jaqen,

If the officer was slandered his remedy is to sue Prof. Gates for slander, not abuse his authority by arresting him on whatever BS charge he can think of. In short, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Eurytus]

And when you make the assumption that these cops did nothing wrong based on how you perceive other cops acting is......

Ah I see where you're going wrong now. You don't bother reading the posts of the person you're attempting to rebut. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Eurytus]

If you disagreed with Sword's logic, it did you no service by going the Full Monty on stupidity and trying to come back with an "all black men must be criminals" counter-argument.

Why? Its the argument he's making himself.

[TheKassi]

Jaqen,

If the officer was slandered his remedy is to sue Prof. Gates for slander, not abuse his authority by arresting him on whatever BS charge he can think of. In short, two wrongs don't make a right.

Assuming the police report was accurate, Gates was breaking the law by disturbing the peace. Assuming the police report was accurate, he was doing it for no other reason then because a cop responded to a call about a possible break in to a house that someone had just attempted to break into.

Being granted a get out of consequences for criminal behavior free card simply because you were asked to comply with a reasonable request made by someone looking to protect your property is silly.

[DanteGabriel]

Why? Its the argument he's making himself.

It's not the same argument, but you're clearly in no mood to understand that. For one, we actually have evidence of a cop acting unreasonably to a black man who has not violated any law.

[Jaqen the FatManderly]

Yes, it's really a far stretch to think a cop in an affluent neighborhood treated a black man in an unfair and racist manner just because he arrested that black man for being loud and angry in his own home.

No.

The rich and famous Professor Gates accused the cop of racism long before any arrest. He repeatedly and vehemently charged racism because the cop responded to a 911 call of a break-in.

Surely you agree that that is a disgusting and vile accusation and that Gates slandered the officer and is a race-baiting scumbag?

One could argue that the eventual arrest showed racial bias. Maybe you think that if an Asian guy was yelling at a cop and calling him racist he wouldn't have been arrested. But the race card was thrown down immediately the second the cop showed up to do his job, which surely you agree is preposterous?

[Jaqen the FatManderly]

Jaqen,

If the officer was slandered his remedy is to sue Prof. Gates for slander, not abuse his authority by arresting him on whatever BS charge he can think of. In short, two wrongs don't make a right.

I have never excused the arrest - just that I think extraneous arrests happens relatively often that we don't hear about and I reserve my sympathy for those who don't have some karmic retribution coming. I have only so much sympathy to go around.

[Annelise]

Has the media published any witness accounts? How about from the professor? Based on what has been written in the press so far, it doesn't appear that the police abused their authority until they decided to arrest Gates. I'd like to know if the police did anything to set Gates off. If they did, then fine, Gates wasn't over-reacting. But if not, then Gates was being stupid.

Even if he was, that doesn't warrant arrest IMO.

I think there's reasons to be sympathetic to both parties. I think Sword is right about how black men are routinely treated by police. I also think police generally have to deal with a lot of shit in their job. But even in the best case scenario for the police, that the man was being unjustifiably verbally abusive, what purpose does it serve to arrest someone who is accusing them of hassling him because he's black, when he has done nothing illegal? Other than as a way to vent their own anger, which is where one of their negative stereotypes derives from. Arresting the man did no one any favors.

[DanteGabriel]

No.

The rich and famous Professor Gates accused the cop of racism long before any arrest. He repeatedly and vehemently charged racism because the cop responded to a 911 call of a break-in.

Surely you agree that that is a disgusting and vile accusation and that Gates slandered the officer and is a race-baiting scumbag?

One could argue that the eventual arrest showed racial bias. Maybe you think that if an Asian guy was yelling at a cop and calling him racist he wouldn't have been arrested. But the race card was thrown down immediately the second the cop showed up to do his job, which surely you agree is preposterous?

I think the real truth of what happened is somewhere between what Gates released through his lawyer and the cop's police report.

Whatever did happen, I don't think there was reason to arrest Gates unless he physically assaulted the officer. Even if Gates was calling him a white devil cracker, it's not an excuse to arrest someone in their own home after you've ascertained that they are not the burglar you were sent to look for. Words are wind, and a cop should fucking know better.

So my baseline assumption, yes, is that the cop did something wrong. Gates may well have been a dickhead, but short of physical violence, there is no cause to arrest him. And yeah, "disturbing the peace" is a charge often levied by cops when they don't have anything real to bust someone for but still want to fuck with someone.

[Mudguard]

Yeah, I think the arrest was unjustified. At this stage, I'm just curious about Gates' behavior, whether the cops were abusive or derogatory before the arrest. The article interviewed at least one of Gates' friends, but there wasn't any indication of why Gates was so angry. I don't know if Gates jumped to conclusions as soon as he saw the cops, or whether the cops did something to set him off.

[SwordoftheMorning]

One could argue that the eventual arrest showed racial bias. Maybe you think that if an Asian guy was yelling at a cop and calling him racist he wouldn't have been arrested. But the race card was thrown down immediately the second the cop showed up to do his job, which surely you agree is preposterous?

Preposterous .....

Man, if you could just have to go thru it once, you would swallow those words whole and without chewing.

But its pointless to even attempt to illucidate the experience for you. You'd simply refuse to see it. But just so we're clear. [many] Cops approach Black males with a predisposition of criminal behavior. And treat us as such. All based on the color of our skin. That's racist. Prof.Gates didn't accuse him of using racial slurs, or brutality. He says the cop's attitude towards him was racist. And I believe him. Cause I have experienced it ALL over this country. Personally.

[TheKassi]

I think the real truth of what happened is somewhere between what Gates released through his lawyer and the cop's police report.

Whatever did happen, I don't think there was reason to arrest Gates unless he physically assaulted the officer. Even if Gates was calling him a white devil cracker, it's not an excuse to arrest someone in their own home after you've ascertained that they are not the burglar you were sent to look for. Words are wind, and a cop should fucking know better.

So my baseline assumption, yes, is that the cop did something wrong. Gates may well have been a dickhead, but short of physical violence, there is no cause to arrest him. And yeah, "disturbing the peace" is a charge often levied by cops when they don't have anything real to bust someone for but still want to fuck with someone.

Perhaps people think disturbing the peace shouldn't be illegal, but the fact is it is against the law. Enforcing the law to it's letter is by definition not an abuse of power.

At worst, assuming the police report is correct, the police officer pushed the limits of their authority, but they did not exceed it.

Facts matter.

[Annelise]

I have never excused the arrest - just that I think extraneous arrests happens relatively often that we don't hear about and I reserve my sympathy for those who don't have some karmic retribution coming. I have only so much sympathy to go around.

I understand that you are not excusing the arrest, but I don't understand why you seem to be suggesting the officer is deserving of an award for his role as deliverer of karmic retribution. Or why you think an unwarranted arrest is an example of professional behavior:

Somehow I don't think he'll be fired for his extremely disgusting, hateful, and unprofessional behavior. Hell, he might get an award!

[awesome possum]

Assuming the police report is correct of course, which one shouldn't take on simple faith. Odds are the report isn't completely objective.

I don't understand why you can say this and then continuously take the side of the police report (with a disclaimer).

I realize I'm about to use a stereotype but I find it incredibly hard to believe that a Harvard professor would speak the way the officer reported. He almost comes across as a caricature of "angry black man" in the police report, which is ridiculous.

The facts are laid out in the report. Pointing them out when people make up their own isn't semantics.

Again, with this... which is it? Is the report not completely objective or is it completely factual? Pick a side and stick with it.

The facts, according to the report, are simple.

Ugh.

I am not really sure if the 'high school bully becomes a cop' is an accurate stereotype. I'd say that most high school bullies end up becoming the criminal, instead. Perhaps the hall monitor is more likely to become the cop?

My theory is that there are three types who become cops. There are the jock-bullies whose reign as superstars ends with graduation day. Unless they are superb athletes they're going nowhere and joining the police force is one of the few alternatives they have for a career.

There are the hall geeks in need of control. Those who were picked on terribly in school and join the police force to be able to exact their revenge against a society who betrayed them. These are almost worse than the jock-bullies as cops because those years of being near-tortured in high school have made them more than a little bit unstable.

Then there are those who become cops because they actually want to protect and serve. The hall monitors, as previously said. They're the cops who tend to be laid back, let trivial offenses slide. Are the "cool" cops but also the dead serious ones when situations demand seriousness. Unfortunately they're also the minority in the police force.

And the scumbag professor screaming at a police officer, calling him a racist for investigating a break-in?

Somehow I don't think he'll be fired for his extremely disgusting, hateful, and unprofessional behavior. Hell, he might get an award!

This post, and the ones that follow, are unpleasant and slightly appalling. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself but I get the gist that you're actually proud of your slightly ignorant opinions.

My point. Fuck what the arresting cop wrote about the incident with Prof. Gates. Arrest reports are nothing more than fiction designed to make the police look at good as possible.

Exactly. And you don't have to be a black man to have this happen. Several years ago I was arrested for Public Intoxication after I stopped a fight between two horribly drunken idiots. A cop came up into the middle of a fracas that I had just gained control over, but he saw me in the middle of a rowdy group and immediately tried to handcuff me without even asking questions. He came across as completely inept and foolish but he falsified his report to make me look like a raging drunken tool who deserved to be arrested, when I was barely over the limit, quite coherent and had a group of people explain to the cop what really happened. He had his arrest though, and made himself look like a hero who stopped a public riot nearly started by me.

[Mudguard]

Prof.Gates didn't accuse him of using racial slurs, or brutality. He says the cop's attitude towards him was racist. And I believe him. Cause I have experienced it ALL over this country. Personally.

Do you think that Gates could have jumped to conclusions before the cop did anything racist? I'm pretty sure that Gates had no idea that someone had called the police and said that a burglary might be occuring at his home. So when he saw the cops, is it possible that he thought that they were out to harass him because of his race? To me, these things are reasonably possible, so until I get more details from Gates' side, I'm not ready to accuse the cops of racist behavior, at least during the initial part of the encounter. Is it enough evidence for you to charge a cop of racist behavior simply because Gates accused him of being racist? No other facts needed?

[DanteGabriel]

Perhaps people think disturbing the peace shouldn't be illegal, but the fact is it is against the law. Enforcing the law to it's letter is by definition not an abuse of power.

At worst, assuming the police report is correct, the police officer pushed the limits of their authority, but they did not exceed it.

Facts matter.

Some of us just don't think that yelling at a cop on your own property justifies getting arrested for disturbing the peace. God, give him a warning and get the fuck out of there.

And I wish you'd fucking decide if you believe the police report or not. You seem to try and soften your comments with expressions of healthy skepticism for the cop report, but you are treating this incident like it went down word for word the way the cop described.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

In related news: cops are awesome

“Without physical provocation and/or physical gestures from B.B., Deputy Bowers held B.B. down on his bed and shocked him repeatedly with a taser. While he was tasing B.B., Deputy David Bowers threatened to sodomize B.B. As a result of this repeated and excessive tasing, B.B. urinated and defecated himself. Deputy David Bowers was aware that B.B. urinated himself after the tasing.â€

“As Z.P. was being repeatedly tased, [17-year-old] Megan Geisler pleaded with Deputy David Bowers and Deputy Lonnie Lawler to stop. Deputy David Bowers ordered Deputy Lonnie Lawler to handcuff Megan Geisler. … Deputy David Bowers grabbed Megan Geisler by her arms, lifted her off her feet, and carried her through the male dormitory to a nearby closet. On the way to the closet, Deputy David Bowers lifted Megan Geisler off the ground, pressed her against a wall and choked her. While choking her, Deputy David Bowers said, ‘do you want to live or die bitch’ to Megan Geisler. Megan Geisler was then thrown into a closet. At this time she began vomiting and heaving.â€

According to AP, no criminal charges have been filed in the case, and the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office says the deputies “acted appropriately.â€