The "new" definition of Racism or

[SwordoftheMorning]

Note: this thread is not a further discussion of the Gates Affair. It's intention is to discuss how the definition of what racism is has been morphed into an accusation hurled at anyone mention race at all.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics...ist_beer_t.html

The Swamp - Mark Silva - Washington Times

Glenn Beck, the conservative commentator for the FOX News Channel, had some rather provocative things to say about the president's own racial profiling:

"This president, I think, has exposed himself as a guy, over and over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture, I don't know what it is,'' Beck said (see the video above. "I'm not saying that he doesn't like white people. I'm saying he has a problem. This guy is, I believe, a racist.''

The remarks may say more about Beck than Obama, and perhaps something about the level of political discourse that FOX is sponsoring in Beck.

What strikes me is how similar Beck's analysis of Obama is to the analysis of yours' truly by Stego in the Gates thread

Again, it goes back to what I said days and days ago. Sword, you want to believe racism in EVERYONE. I'm sorry you have so much hatred, fear, and bias. But the chances of this event occurring because the professor was black are very, very small. It's because the moron did not know when to shut the fuck up.

Which leads to my point in posting this. My feeling is that a real discourse on race and racial incidents in America today is stymied by those point a finger and shout "racist" at anyone who has the nerve to state they see race as factor in things that happen in this country. From Gates, going to the Jena Six, all the way back to Rodney King and far beyond.

Coming of age in this country, ( The USA ) Racist was a term reserved for those who expressed a hatred of races different than their own. In it's most common depictation, it bore the face of angry mobs of White people, fighting against the dismantling of the institutionalized racist laws and customs that maintained the two-class system here in America.

There was a common conception that Black people couldn't be racist, because racism here was so much about power and oppression and Black people didn't have the power to be oppressive to anyone. There was a strong sentiment that the anger Black people and other minorities felt and expressed was justified, due to the horrible effect of centuries long mistreatment. I felt that anger. But acknowledge that in the long run, holding onto that and letting it dictate where you go in life is counter-productive. Black America as a whole, has been much more about being ready to forgive all those past transgression, as long as it remains in the past. When racism rears its ugly head in the here and now, We as a group follow the quote of Thomas Jefferson "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance".

Reading just about any of the speeches given by the civil rights icons who lead the push for equal rights would give those looking for it, plenty of ammunition to call those people "racist". Yes, even the much venerated Dr. King, who btw made a lot more than that one speech at the March on Washington many find so easy to quote.

But the overlooked fact is that as venerated as Dr. King is in this day, a lil research back thru newspaper archives both in the North and South from those days will show that much of the same hateful discourse was leveled at him and any others who had the courage to stand up to oppression.

Why is this significant ? Because men like Beck aren't interested in solving any racial issues. Far from it. They intend to hold on to their "God given, original Sovereign" rights in this country by any means they can. Limiting or eliminating any discussion of race as a factor in any incident accomplishes this by returning us to the mindset of the lynch mob era. Meaning, crimes against Blacks and other minorities BECAUSE they are minorites simply don't exist.

That was exactly who lynchings were perpetrated. "Nothing happened, no crime, so no one did anything wrong. The Black guy hanging in the tree burned to a crisp ? He musta burned himself in a fire and committed suicide to escape the pain. Hand's chained behind his back ? Well he did that to himself too"

Some will claim thats an over the top comparison, but I disagree. just read some of the accusations leveled against those who have stood up and said, "what happened to me was racially motived" and the echo's of that shameful past ring clear.

When an accusation such as that is leveled against me, and this is definitely not the first time in this and other forums, it makes me chuckle initially. Feels like a school kid who is out of ideas and all they can think to do is try to throw what I am saying right back at me. But it's really not funny. Because of the intent. The objective of stifling or eliminating any discussion of race as a factor in their world at least.

There is racism in this country. I and most other minority Americans deal with it every day. I see many here who acknowledge that fact, but when it comes to a particular incident, feel that the benefit of the doubt must be given first and only with "proof" can it be clearly said there was racism involved. The fact that "proof" is always subjective is willingly overlooked.

Byrd in Texas, the Jena 6, the magistrate that sentenced a White girl to probation for the same crime he sent a Black kid to prison for similar crimes, the elderly Black man shot down in his yard by a police dept that publicly claimed groups of Black kids walking down the street are "threats", the young man shot in the back on Bart New Years eve, William Sean Bell shot to pieces hours before his wedding ..... I could go on all day.

What do all those have in common, besides being relatively recent ? not back in the shadows of the 60's ? Every one was a Black victim and in every incident, the "offender" states nothing about it was racial.

My point is, being passionate about whats wrong here in America in regards to race is NOT about hatred of America or White people. It's saying clearly, acknowledge the problem. So it can be fixed. Those who wanna point fingers and shout me, or President Obama down by attempting to shame me, him and others like us as "racist" are on a fool's errand.

[DanteGabriel]

Barack Obama was raised by his white mother and grandparents after his black father left them.

Of course he hates white people. Look at this picture. And this one. You can practically see the Rage Against Whitey boiling up in his eyes.

Glenn Beck needs to be caned on camera and maybe pilloried on the Capitol Mall until the stupid gets slapped out of him. The question is, is Beck really this big a moron, or does he just say moronic and inflammatory things to justify his festering wasteland of a TV show?

And let's make no mistake: racism isn't just lynchings and burning crosses and guys in white hoods. It comes up in a lot more subtle and insidious ways, every day, everywhere.

[Mad Monkey]

Beck may or may not be a racist, but he says inflammatory things like that in order to get ratings.

There is racism in this country. I and most other minority Americans deal with it every day. I see many here who acknowledge that fact, but when it comes to a particular incident, feel that the benefit of the doubt must be given first and only with "proof" can it be clearly said there was racism involved. The fact that "proof" is always subjective is willingly overlooked.

I do think that sometimes we're required to give the benefit of the doubt and bend over backward and do backflips to interpret everything in an inoffensive way. To do otherwise is to be accused of playing the "race card".

[Tempra]

Why is this significant ? Because men like Beck aren't interested in solving any racial issues. Far from it. They intend to hold on to their "God given, original Sovereign" rights in this country by any means they can. Limiting or eliminating any discussion of race as a factor in any incident accomplishes this by returning us to the mindset of the lynch mob era. Meaning, crimes against Blacks and other minorities BECAUSE they are minorites simply don't exist.

That was exactly who lynchings were perpetrated. "Nothing happened, no crime, so no one did anything wrong. The Black guy hanging in the tree burned to a crisp ? He musta burned himself in a fire and committed suicide to escape the pain. Hand's chained behind his back ? Well he did that to himself too"

Some will claim thats an over the top comparison, but I disagree. just read some of the accusations leveled against those who have stood up and said, "what happened to me was racially motived" and the echo's of that shameful past ring clear.

It is not over the top. It is ridiculous.

When an accusation such as that is leveled against me, and this is definitely not the first time in this and other forums, it makes me chuckle initially. Feels like a school kid who is out of ideas and all they can think to do is try to throw what I am saying right back at me. But it's really not funny. Because of the intent. The objective of stifling or eliminating any discussion of race as a factor in their world at least.

There is racism in this country. I and most other minority Americans deal with it every day. I see many here who acknowledge that fact, but when it comes to a particular incident, feel that the benefit of the doubt must be given first and only with "proof" can it be clearly said there was racism involved. The fact that "proof" is always subjective is willingly overlooked.

Byrd in Texas, the Jena 6, the magistrate that sentenced a White girl to probation for the same crime he sent a Black kid to prison for similar crimes, the elderly Black man shot down in his yard by a police dept that publicly claimed groups of Black kids walking down the street are "threats", the young man shot in the back on Bart New Years eve, William Sean Bell shot to pieces hours before his wedding ..... I could go on all day.

What do all those have in common, besides being relatively recent ? not back in the shadows of the 60's ? Every one was a Black victim and in every incident, the "offender" states nothing about it was racial.

You lose a lot of credibility by connecting the Jena 6 with the word victim. They may have been charged with too harsh a crime for what they did, but they were thugs and should have been charged. The white students should have been locked up too, BTW.

You say that you and every minority are affected by racism every today. Ok. May I ask how you have been affected by racism today? Yesterday? The day before yesterday? Or do you mean that you are affected by racism because somewhere in this country, a minority has been a victim of racism?

My point is, being passionate about whats wrong here in America in regards to race is NOT about hatred of America or White people. It's saying clearly, acknowledge the problem. So it can be fixed. Those who wanna point fingers and shout me, or President Obama down by attempting to shame me, him and others like us as "racist" are on a fool's errand.

When it comes Race in America, there are two general extremes at work. There is the "Glen Beck" type who ignore all things related to race. Then there is the "Al Sharpton" type who reads race into everything, even where it has no business being inserted. Considering 99% of people in America do not understand what "racism" means, it is not shocking that there is no middle ground in America when dealing with race.

[DanteGabriel]

There is the "Glen Beck" type who ignore all things related to race.

How disingenuous. Beck is not ignoring race. He's stoking it up for ratings.

But it's not surprising to see you trying to claim that hatemongers like Beck are "ignoring" race. You would love to be able to assign him a neutral position in race issues when in reality he is a negative and damaging influence. This fits in with a broad pattern of right wing blowhards who claim to be race neutral or not to see race, while advocating or encouraging racism and xenophobia.

[Tempra]

Beck may or may not be a racist, but he says inflammatory things like that in order to get ratings.

I do think that sometimes we're required to give the benefit of the doubt and bend over backward and do backflips to interpret everything in an inoffensive way. To do otherwise is to be accused of playing the "race card".

And white people have to bend over backwards and do backflips to interpret everything in an offensive way. To do otherwise is to be accused of marginalizing the role of race in America.

[SwordoftheMorning]

You say that you and every minority are affected by racism every today. Ok. May I ask how you have been affected by racism today? Yesterday? The day before yesterday? Or do you mean that you are affected by racism because somewhere in this country, a minority has been a victim of racism?

No, I'm not talking about me being affected because of some racial injustice be done to whoever in another part of the country. I'm talking about how racism continues to affect me personally, my family, friends, and even people I dont happen to know.

Saturday, in the bookstore at the mall. I see people walking in and out of the store and the clerks standing behind the counter. I walk in and go back to the Science Fiction Fantasy section. Guess what ? One of the clerks has come from behind the counter, walked past everyone else in the store and comes up to me, "asking very politely, "Is there anything I can help u with?"

Now, I'd love to believe that I am so charming and attractive this 20-something girl was smitten from across the room and had to personally find out all it would take to make sure my visit to her establishment was the best it could possibly be ..... but sadly, thats not the case.

Wether conciously or sub, her alarms went off on seeing this Black guy coming into the bookstore. Since this raised my flags, I watched her more than I perused the books for a lil while and there was not a single other customer who came into the store who got the special "reach out and touch" welcome as they came into the store. Of course, in the 30 mins or so I was there, no other Black men came in either.

Thats just an overt example. I barely notice the ones who roll up the car window when we are sitting at a red light and they glance over to see me. I won't regale u with the adventure it can and usually is to hail a cab in downtown Chicago. The number of times I had a bill to a cashier who then ignores my outstretched hand and slaps my change down on the counter next it it. Getting followed thru a dept store by security ? hell, thats not even worth bothering to mention either.

As mentioned by Dante, its not all burning crosses and white hoods. It's the lil demeaning, personal encounters that leave you a lil bit shocked, even when you know they are common and feeling hurt even when you should be able to ignore it.

As the conservative poster boy Gen Colin Powell stated, he personally has been profiled dozens of times. I'm sure he is a racist too, in the eyes of those that leap to throw that back in the face on anyone that says they have.

[Mad Monkey]

You surely are one of the most reliable knee-jerk defenders of the rights of oppressed white people everywhere, beaten-down souls who just want to have the freedom to not have to think about racism.

Whoa, where did this come from? Isn't the fact that he's posting in this thread proof that he's willing to discuss the issue of racism?

And white people have to bend over backwards and do backflips to interpret everything in an offensive way. To do otherwise is to be accused of marginalizing the role of race in America.

Not really. I've never really encountered that either in my own life or in public. In fact, in my experience it's been the other way around. Remember Pat Buchanan's, "no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans" letter? In that same speech, he alleged that "We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?"

Now, I can understand why Reverend Wright's inflammatory comments were resented. But when white commentators are able to make inflammatory comments like this without being mocked and marginalized in the same way that Reverend Wright was for his speeches, it does seem to evince a certain double standard. Blacks have to be grateful for all the good that white Americans have done but they should stop whining so damn much about the problems that still exist. I can agree with the first part but I can't see how the second part is constructive or respectful.

[Tempra]

Not really. I've never really encountered that either in my own life or in public. In fact, in my experience it's been the other way around. Remember Pat Buchanan's, "no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans" letter? In that same speech, he alleged that "We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?"

Now, I can understand why Reverend Wright's inflammatory comments were resented. But when white commentators are able to make inflammatory comments like this without being mocked and marginalized in the same way that Reverend Wright was for his speeches, it does seem to evince a certain double standard. Blacks have to be grateful for all the good that white Americans have done but they should stop whining so damn much about the problems that still exist. I can agree with the first part but I can't see how the second part is constructive or respectful.

I am not sure if it is a double standard. The majority will always be heard louder than a minority because of their standing in society. When Wright says God Damn America, he is essentially insulting the 67%(i think) of America. When Pat Buchanan insults the black community, he is insulting 11% of America. Not only that, the white populations relative control of media will ensure that their greivances are heard more loudly. Though, I can understand why it may be perceived as a double standard.

I think this is still part of the problem that I have talked about: each side has their respective view and refuses to listen to the other side. One of the differences between a discussion on race and a discussion on, say, politics, is that we can use nasty monikers like "racist" which carry far more weight than monikers like "neo-con."

[Tempra]

No, I'm not talking about me being affected because of some racial injustice be done to whoever in another part of the country. I'm talking about how racism continues to affect me personally, my family, friends, and even people I dont happen to know.

Saturday, in the bookstore at the mall. I see people walking in and out of the store and the clerks standing behind the counter. I walk in and go back to the Science Fiction Fantasy section. Guess what ? One of the clerks has come from behind the counter, walked past everyone else in the store and comes up to me, "asking very politely, "Is there anything I can help u with?"

Now, I'd love to believe that I am so charming and attractive this 20-something girl was smitten from across the room and had to personally find out all it would take to make sure my visit to her establishment was the best it could possibly be ..... but sadly, thats not the case.

Wether conciously or sub, her alarms went off on seeing this Black guy coming into the bookstore. Since this raised my flags, I watched her more than I perused the books for a lil while and there was not a single other customer who came into the store who got the special "reach out and touch" welcome as they came into the store. Of course, in the 30 mins or so I was there, no other Black men came in either.

Thats just an overt example. I barely notice the ones who roll up the car window when we are sitting at a red light and they glance over to see me. I won't regale u with the adventure it can and usually is to hail a cab in downtown Chicago. The number of times I had a bill to a cashier who then ignores my outstretched hand and slaps my change down on the counter next it it. Getting followed thru a dept store by security ? hell, thats not even worth bothering to mention either.

As mentioned by Dante, its not all burning crosses and white hoods. It's the lil demeaning, personal encounters that leave you a lil bit shocked, even when you know they are common and feeling hurt even when you should be able to ignore it.

As the conservative poster boy Gen Colin Powell stated, he personally has been profiled dozens of times. I'm sure he is a racist too, in the eyes of those that leap to throw that back in the face on anyone that says they have.

I'm sure Colin Powell isn't a racist. Or Obama for that matter. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm "glad," and saddened, that you speak from actual experiences. It is not always the case when I ask that question. And unlike DG's assertion, I do not wish for us to ignore race in this country, at least not yet.

[SwordoftheMorning]

I am not sure if it is a double standard. The majority will always be heard louder than a minority because of their standing in society. When Wright says God Damn America, he is essentially insulting the 67%(i think) of America. When Pat Buchanan insults the black community, he is insulting 11% of America. Not only that, the white populations relative control of media will ensure that their greivances are heard more loudly. Though, I can understand why it may be perceived as a double standard.

So to paraphase a quote a line from Glory "Ya'll be da big man now Boss!"

The fact that you claim 67 percent of the population agrees with your viewpoint simply because they share your skin color says what ? ...... don't wanna use the R-word, but you are leaving me very lil wiggle room.

I often believe that many many conservatives have no caring for the constitution, they only use it when they firmly believe it can advance their agenda, otherwise it's a pesky piece of paper that must be overcome. This country was designed to insure that minority participation couldn't be simply smacked down by majority opinion. The fact that they intended the "minority" to be White males of different political or religious viewpoints doesn't matter. Whatever the numbers, the voices have to be equal. Thats why the FCC exist. So people like Rupert Murdoch can't simply buy up the airwaves and present only the opinions they desire.

And believe me, I was not stating in any way, shape, form or fashion that Beck ignores race. He is attempting to shame those who are intent on discussing it in all its facets into silence.

and of course it's a double standard.

[Tempra]

So to paraphase a quote a line from Glory "Ya'll be da big man now Boss!"

The fact that you claim 67 percent of the population agrees with your viewpoint simply because they share your skin color says what ? ...... don't wanna use the R-word, but you are leaving me very lil wiggle room.

huh?! wtf? Reverand Wright targetted some of his sermons against "White America." Of course it will offend white people. Just as Pat Buchanan's nonsense offended black Americans for telling them that they should be grateful. This is racist how? Are you just trying to pick a fight?

And believe me, I was not stating in any way, shape, form or fashion that Beck ignores race. He is attempting to shame those who are intent on discussing it in all its facets into silence.

Then I misread your statement and made the appropriate correction to keep DG happy.

and of course it's a double standard.

Perhaps in individual circumstances.

[TheLoneliestMonk]

I think what Tempra meant was that white people have to "bend over backwards" to avoid being labled racist. also, i think that's crap. It's only prominent white people and white people in positions of authority that have to do that. Well, it's not that hard not to come off as a racist, and when you are in the spotlight, watching what you say about everything is par for the course. Whether you are being held to a different standard because you are a cop or a TV personality or a politician, you are being scritinized, and should be, because you are affecting more people from that position. suck it up.

[Tempra]

I think what Tempra meant was that white people have to "bend over backwards" to avoid being labled racist. also, i think that's crap. It's only prominent white people and white people in positions of authority that have to do that. Well, it's not that hard not to come off as a racist, and when you are in the spotlight, watching what you say about everything is par for the course. Whether you are being held to a different standard because you are a cop or a TV personality or a politician, you are being scritinized, and should be, because you are affecting more people from that position. suck it up.

I'm not sure why you think only prominent white people have to parse their language/actions to avoid being labeled racist

[Kat]

I'm not sure why you think only prominent white people have to parse their language/actions to avoid being labeled racist

Oh my, I might have to think first, then talk. This is such a burden.

[TheKassi]

Sword, You and Glen Beck are in the same category. People who make allegations of racism at the drop of a hat without any evidence other then 'That person is another race and they are doing something I do not expect/approve of.â€

I mean you just said people like Stego want to return America to the lynch mob era because he pointed out that you commonly attack people as racists simply for disagreeing with you. Thats actually what this whole thread is about, Stego disagrees with you, thus he is a racist who secretly wants to return America to a time where you can be lynched without penalty.

People who think there should be some evidence of racism before an allegation of racism is leveled are not automatically racists who want to see you lynched.

As for Glen Beck, he is an empty uniform. If he isn't secretly ripping off Stephen Colbert then he needs to be sterilized for the good of Mankind.

[Ser Doctor]

People like glen beck seem to think that race doesn't have a place anymore in our popular culture. I disagree. I think there is still plenty of room for race and for minorities in this country, in the form of romantic images of the past.

Such sterling Images as the dead indian, the sex crazed black man hungry for white women, and the effeminate and subservient mexican worker, to name a few.

It is a fine thing, that our country has had the strength and deceny to overcome the race issue, and is now willing to tell the world that racism and its history are now irrelevent, and if nothing else a bit of a mood spoiler - and definitively inconsequential to the majority of the majority.

[TheLoneliestMonk]

I'm not sure why you think only prominent white people have to parse their language/actions to avoid being labeled racist

Because so far this topic has been about prominent white people. I don't have to watch what I say to keep from being labled racist. As we have seen, white cops and black presidents do.

[TheLoneliestMonk]

People like glen beck seem to think that race doesn't have a place anymore in our popular culture. I disagree. I think there is still plenty of room for race and for minorities in this country, in the form of romantic images of the past.

Such sterling Images as the dead indian, the sex crazed black man hungry for white women, and the effeminate and subservient mexican worker, to name a few.

It is a fine thing, that our country has had the strength and deceny to overcome the race issue, and is now willing to tell the world that racism and its history are now irrelevent, and if nothing else a bit of a mood spoiler - and definitively inconsequential to the majority of the majority.

*waits for punchline*

[Ser Doctor]

Most of the racism that I have experienced (aside from the poverty, misery, and alcoholism that have been a direct or indirect consequence of US indian policy), has come from being mistaken for another minority group.

I've had people yell at me from cars, and tell me to 'go back to mexico',

occasionally, I've had people throw things at me from their car windows, such as lit ciggarettes, slurpies, and big gulps. (I suspect race had something to do with some of those, although it is possible that these people were simply jerks, rather than racists).

The grossest thing somebody threw was a used condom. I was 10 when that happened. My little brother was with me, and he actually picked it up and slung it back before I could stop him. Hit the front window of another car, and before they could stop and get out, we booked it.