CloudFlare Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 :lol: Those SCARY Mexicans are coming to pick your crops! RUN!!!Probably they're crop pickers, or burrito stuffers.Whose to say they aren't guys like this coming through?And even if they're not, you did say you wanted the government to secure the border, but they're obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Probably they're crop pickers, or burrito stuffers.Whose to say they aren't guys like this coming through?And even if they're not, you did say you wanted the government to secure the border, but they're obviously not.The US government is making no real effort to secure it's borders against Mexicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Hence my use of the word "apparent".Which brings up the question, why were they wearing fatigues? Where were their badges? Did they ID themselves as police officers?those are good questions along with why was he arrested. The video showed only the car pulling up and they getting into it. Everything else happened off screen. Why LE types feel the need to wear military type uniforms I don't know and wish they just had thier own unique uniforms. If some mil-spec goon tries to grab me at a protest, without providing reasonable proof of LEO status... well one of us is going to be tits up at the end of the day. Probably me, but I'll go down fighting.in this case I'd be right beside you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Yes, which is why McCain is president and the GOP tightened it's grip on the Senate and the House.I'm wrestling with a pig here....Lol, I said the crazy rightwing teabagging base is propping up the GOP political wing.I didn't said that they're successful at winning elections, however. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFlare Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Lol, I said the crazy rightwing teabagging base is propping up the GOP political wing.I didn't said that they're successful at winning elections, however. ;)At least in my personal experience, the teabaggers are the ones who leaving the GOP and it's political wing. Most of my friends, who hate Obama, hate gun control, hate immigrants(legal and illegal) have completely written off the national GOP power structure. They've quit giving $$$ to the national party, and tell the national GOP powers that be to go fuck themselves whenever they get called to turn out the vote or are asked for contributions.They still vote for GOP representatives, but Dubya, McCain and the rest of the GOP senate are considered to be as bad as child molesters.This is probably the same nationally, where the House GOP and the Senate GOP have diverging policies.If it continues, we'll probably see the House GOP split to become a modern day Know Nothing party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Actually, most indications are that GOP politicians are desperately trying to keep pace with the Teabaggers and such in order to maintain those votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 This is probably the same nationally, where the House GOP and the Senate GOP have diverging policies.They do? Besides 2 moderate Republicans in the Senate, Republicans in both chambers have sing the same tunes and obstructed every single action from the Obama administration.Sure doesn't seem that diverge to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFlare Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 They do? Besides 2 moderate Republicans in the Senate, Republicans in both chambers have sing the same tunes and obstructed every single action from the Obama administration.Sure doesn't seem that diverge to me.With immigration reform legalization last year, the GOP Senate was all for it, the GOP House was against it.Ditto, I believe, with bailout bucks. Looking at auditthefed It looks like very few GOP Senators have signed on, while a whole hell of a lot of GOP reps have. (I'll admit I don't have an exact count though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 hate immigrants(legal and illegal)Do they also hate Jews and black people? What about those women who don't want be housewives? And what about atheists? I don't even have to ask about Muslims and homosexuals, do I?Any tiny shred of understanding that I still had for the teabaggers has just died. I'm sure most of them wouldn't fell out of place in a skinhead rally, or on stormfront's forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFlare Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 For the most part....Do they also hate JewsNo. and black people?Mmm... more or less. What about those women who don't want be housewives?No. A large number of my friends' wives earn more than their hubbies. Sometimes *way* more. Even those that earn about the same appreciate the extra paycheck coming in.MuslimsMore or less. and homosexualsIndifferent, but dislike homosexual marriage.They're all way smarter than the trolls at a skinhead rally. They're mostly much older, and work in semi-professional job fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 With immigration reform legalization last year, the GOP Senate was all for it, the GOP House was against it.Ditto, I believe, with bailout bucks. Looking at auditthefed It looks like very few GOP Senators have signed on, while a whole hell of a lot of GOP reps have. (I'll admit I don't have an exact count though)You should recheck the sources of your information.The votes of cloture that killed the Immigration Bill of 2007 is opposed by many Republicans in the Senate. Here's the breakdown of the votes:http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll...&vote=00206http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll...&vote=00235The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007, or, in its full name, the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 (S. 1348) was a bill discussed in the 110th United States Congress that would have provided legal status and a path to citizenship for the approximately 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States. The bill was portrayed as a compromise between providing a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and increased border enforcement: it included funding for 300 miles (480 km) of vehicle barriers, 105 camera and radar towers, and 20,000 more Border Patrol agents, while simultaneously restructuring visa criteria around high-skilled workers.Like I said, it would reform the system and provided for more border security, but the majority of Congressional Republican opposed it because they like the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Tormund, I think the use of "trust" is a bit ambiguous. I think, whatever most people's political views, their (or the American) government is currently, or has recently, done something you don't agree with. But does that mean we shouldn't trust it? I think that depends on what you mean by "trust." Do I trust my government to be perfect? Hell no. Do I trust my government to run a military that ostensibly protects me from hypothetical invasion? Probably. Do I trust my government to protect me from criminals? To a degree, I think they're doing some good, which is obviously balanced by screw-ups, sometimes lethal ones.I think what you are asking isn't what the government would have to do to lose our "trust," but what would it take for us to reject the current conception of government in favor of a better alternative (be that no government, smaller governments, etc.). I think the answer most would give is that the sum of the good and the bad of the current system would have to outweigh the sum of the god and the bad of any alternative. And the way most of us see it, the bad of the alternatives would be worse than the current bad.Now, I could have your position here wrong. It could be you just want us to take less of what the government says on its face, to challenge its specific positions more, etc. In that case I apologize for wasting your time with the above thoughts, but I don't know anyone on this board who doesn't believe there should be a healthy criticism and analysis of everything every major government says and does. I think we'd merely be quibbling over gradations.In this case, we were talking about the census. Do you trust the government enough that you will provide them detailed information on your name, age, location, occupation, physical description, political leanings, etc. etc. etc. along with the same information on members of your family on demand? I, for one, don't see any good that they could possibly do with it, and numerous ways the information could be for nefarious purposes. Their track record on preserving freedom, and using information about citizens for good purposes is grossly insufficient to have earned my trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Do you trust the government enough that you will provide them detailed information on your name, age, location, occupation, physical description, political leanings, etc. etc. etc. along with the same information on members of your family on demand?This paranoia is baseless. The census does not ask for occupation, physical description or political leaning.I thought you would have a better grasp of the actual information the census is seeking than that, tormund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFlare Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Like I said, it would reform the system and provided for more border security, but the majority of Congressional Republican opposed it because they like the status quo.It talked about providing more border security, but the government is lax in enforcing border security.You do have me on the Republican support numbers. Perhaps I was thinking of S2611 from 2006. It was another "security+legalization" bill which would have turned into "nothing+legalization". S2611 did have overwhelming GOP Senate support, but House bill HR4437 was definitely enforcement only.I think the 2008 bill was election year ass covering by Republicans.John Q. Republican, average GOP voter, hates the status quo with immigration.ETA: I don't think the GOP senators or congressmen like it either. The GOP senate has fantasies about winning the Hispanic vote, and they want to placate their corporate paymasters with cheap labor. The GOP house sees the ground level effects of immigration, and wants to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 This paranoia is baseless. The census does not ask for occupation, physical description or political leaning.I thought you would have a better grasp of the actual information the census is seeking than that, tormund.This is the last census form I received. It asks for- name- race- phone number- education- birthplace- ethnic ancestry- length of residence at current address- location of prior residence- if you have dependent grandchildren- medical information regarding chronic conditions- military service- address of your employer- the manner in which you commute to work- whether you were on vacation last week (seriously)- the name of your employer and a description of your duties at your job- what your annual income is and its sources- a description of your home, including number of bedrooms, status of the plumbing and kitchen facilities, and phone service- the manner in which you heat your home- how many cars you have- the value of your home, including the cost of utilities, taxes, and insurance, along with your monthly mortgage, rent, and home equity loan payments.Perhaps YOU should seek a better grasp of what info is being asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 They do? Besides 2 moderate Republicans in the Senate, Republicans in both chambers have sing the same tunes and obstructed every single action from the Obama administration.GOP doesn't have the votes in either chamber to obstruct anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 This is the last census form I received. Perhaps YOU should seek a better grasp of what info is being asked.You do realize that you're linking to the 2000 census form, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 You do realize that you're linking to the 2000 census form, right?I do, it's the last form that the government used, and the only one they've tried to get me to fill out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 And they have modified it significantly for the 2010 census.Changes you can believe in. ;)ETA: however, the questions about chronic medical conditions and income makes perfect sense because part of the purpose of the Census is to determine the allocation of public health resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 And they have modified it significantly for the 2010 census.Changes you can believe in.Oh, great. My trust is instantly restored! Humbug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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