American Politics 17

[awesome possum]

Sheesh. Even those who hate/dislike/are disgruntled with Obama should still feel very relieved that we do not have John "World War III sounds like fun!" McCain in the White House.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Monday urged the United States to advocate an "overthrow" of embattled Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's regime.

In related news: Senile Dementia has been renamed "McCain syndrome".

[TerraPrime]

Re: Annelise

Yeah it was an lazy attempt but you know I'm right. :P

Re: McCain

I thought this brand of foreign policy falls under the category of "This is what we do, and everyone knows we're doing it, but we will never be caught admitting to doing it"? Did I miss a memo?

Imagine the huge shitstorm if Ahmadinejad had been caught saying that the Iranian government should support the anti-Fed separatists groups within U.S. to overthrow the government. :lol:

[TrackerNeil]

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Monday urged the United States to advocate an "overthrow" of embattled Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's regime.

Given McCain's track record on endorsements of attempts to effect "regime change", I think this advice is best ignored.

[Elrostar]

So Schumer and Rockefeller's proposed amendment regarding a public option has been defeated, leaving the senate bill pretty clearly without any chance of a public option.

In the words of one eloquent poster on TPM:

"Baucus is, like, 12 layers of suck. If suck were phyllo, he would be the spanakopita of suck."

Edited for punctuation.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

Well Baucus and Conrad apparently voted against because there ain´t the votes to pass it... of course if they´d have voted for it would have passed. :bang:

[DanteGabriel]

Well Baucus and Conrad apparently voted against because there ain´t the votes to pass it... of course if they´d have voted for it would have passed. :bang:

I'm going to stop ignoring the calls from the Democratic Congressional and Senate fundraising minions, take the calls, and tell them why I'm not giving any money to Congressional Democrats this year, or any year until they pass a fucking decent health care bill that isn't just another giveaway to their corporate paymasters.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

Rep. Trent Franks on Obama.

He has no place in any station of government, and we need to realize that he's an enemy of humanity.

:leaving:

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

He has no place in any station of government, and we need to realize that he's an enemy of humanity.

I don't get it. The exact same things were (rightly) said about Bush, whose policies Obama has continued almost to the letter. Why should that be an outrageous statement?

[lordofavalon]

Sen. Grassley- "Medicare is part of the country's social fabric but a public option would have all kinds of frightening consequences."

Sen Schumer- "How can you predict the horrors of a government run plan while being supportive of Medicare?"

Sen. Grassley- "A government run plan would deny people choice and would lead to a single payer system"

Sen Schumer- "So you don't want Medicare."

Sen. Grassley- "I told you that Medicare is part of the social fabric of America."

[DanteGabriel]

I don't get it. The exact same things were (rightly) said about Bush, whose policies Obama has continued almost to the letter. Why should that be an outrageous statement?

Oh? Which elected Democratic officials were saying those things? Any Democratic politician who said that about Bush would have been crucified. Michelle Bachmann would probably have taken a dump on his or her desk in the legislative chamber.

Sure, bloggers and commentators say all these things about Obama and Bush before him. But what elected officials said these things about Bush? This jackass Franks represents an entire Congressional district, and I'm sure I'm not the only person out there thinking, after this and some other recent incidents, "What the fuck is up with Arizona?"

Plus, there's the thing about Obama failing to launch any illegal invasions on flimsy, trumped-up pretenses. But details, details...

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Oh? Which elected Democratic officials were saying those things? Any Democratic politician who said that about Bush would have been crucified.

I don't know that any congressperson said it, but the sentiment has been repeated endlessly on, say, this board.

Plus, there's the thing about Obama failing to launch any illegal invasions on flimsy, trumped-up pretenses. But details, details...

No, merely continuing said illegal invasions/occupations and even escalating them. I suppose it's ok since he didn't start it though?

[DanteGabriel]

I don't know that any congressperson said it, but the sentiment has been repeated endlessly on, say, this board.

It makes all the difference in the world who said it. A government representative has an obligation to not be an asshat. People are free to be as asshatty as they like on this board.

Find me a fucking elected Democrat who said those things about Bush.

No, merely continuing said illegal invasions/occupations and even escalating them. I suppose it's ok since he didn't start it though?

Well he did inherit these messes. I don't agree with Obama's escalation in Afghanistan. Is he escalating in Iraq? And yes, there's a big difference between continuing an inherited mess and rushing to war on faked evidence and appeals to "with us or against us" tribalist rhetoric.

For the record, are you arguing that Obama as a President has been as reckless, incompetent, and criminal as Bush?

[Shryke]

I don't get it. The exact same things were (rightly) said about Bush, whose policies Obama has continued almost to the letter. Why should that be an outrageous statement?

False Equivalency.

Bush did way more and way worst then Obama has.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

It makes all the difference in the world who said it. A government representative has an obligation to not be an asshat. People are free to be as asshatty as they like on this board.

I disagree. Government people can say whatever they like as long as it's true. I wouldn't have been upset if a Democratic senator had said it of Bush, I can't summon any rage over a Republican one saying it of Obama.

Find me a fucking elected Democrat who said those things about Bush.

No :P say "fuck" again though, it relieves stress.

Well he did inherit these messes. I don't agree with Obama's escalation in Afghanistan. Is he escalating in Iraq? And yes, there's a big difference between continuing an inherited mess and rushing to war on faked evidence and appeals to "with us or against us" tribalist rhetoric.

There really isn't a big difference. It is still a war crime, and a crime against humanity. Therefore the person who does it is evil, and should not be near the reigns of power.

For the record, are you arguing that Obama as a President has been as reckless, incompetent, and criminal as Bush?

As far as reckless and incompetent no, he's much smoother at his criminality. The crimes are the same though (illegal warmongering, domestic spying, torture, etc.). Dr. Doom is less reckless and incompetent than Venom.

False Equivalency.

Bush did way more and way worst then Obama has.

No it isn't. I'm not comparing anything to anything else. I'm pointing out that it doesn't make sense to be upset over someone saying those things about Obama, when everyone agrees they were true of his predecessor, whose policies he has continued. If Obama had departed in a significant way from the Bush policies that were evil, and made him unfit for office then it would make sense to be outraged. Since he hasn't, what's true for one is true for the other.

[TrackerNeil]

There really isn't a big difference. It is still a war crime, and a crime against humanity. Therefore the person who does it is evil, and should not be near the reigns of power.

I disagree. Bush was wrong to start off on his little Iraq adventure, but now that the apple cart has been overturned it's just as wrong for Obama to simply walk away without a look back. What you buy is what you own, and we purchased this mess. And let's not forget that Bush did what he did with the full support of the majority of the American people, so if we're to lay blame let's start with ourselves.

[AndyP]

Only because someone asked.

I give you Democrat Representative Pete Stark

FoxNews

"You don't have money to fund the war or children. But you're going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement," Stark said.

"President Bush's statements about children's health shouldn't be taken any more seriously than his lies about the war in Iraq. The truth is that Bush just likes to blow things up in Iraq, in the United States, and in Congress. I urge my colleagues to vote to override his veto," he continued.

I don't know about you but heads blown off for the president's amusement falls in the enemy of humanity category IMNSHO.

Personally, I don't like the moral equivalency argument of well the Dems did it too. The behavior is deplorable and distracts from the issues.

[DanteGabriel]

Only because someone asked.

I give you Democrat Representative Pete Stark

FoxNews

I don't know about you but heads blown off for the president's amusement falls in the enemy of humanity category IMNSHO.

Personally, I don't like the moral equivalency argument of well the Dems did it too. The behavior is deplorable and distracts from the issues.

Oh, very well. Pete Stark should not have said that Bush enjoys seeing heads blown off. Even if every indicator in his faux cowboy swagger, "Bring it on" rhetoric, and flyboy publicity stunts indicate that that's probably not far off the mark.

I'm still not buying the moral equivalency people are trying to create between Bush and Obama, and I think Representative Franks of Arizona is a gibbering fuckwit.

As a further development on the Franks story, he is now displaying the courage of elected Republicans everywhere by walking back his comments and trying to claim that he only meant to criticize Obama's support for abortion rights.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09...y.php?ref=fpblg

For the record, when I say that Republican politicians enjoy watching poor people die, I only mean to criticize their views on universal health care.

[AndyP]

I'm still not buying the moral equivalency people are trying to create between Bush and Obama, and I think Representative Franks of Arizona is a gibbering fuckwit.

Generally true of most members of Congress, he just decided to put his gibbering fuckwitedness on display. :dunce:

[Shryke]

No it isn't. I'm not comparing anything to anything else. I'm pointing out that it doesn't make sense to be upset over someone saying those things about Obama, when everyone agrees they were true of his predecessor, whose policies he has continued. If Obama had departed in a significant way from the Bush policies that were evil, and made him unfit for office then it would make sense to be outraged. Since he hasn't, what's true for one is true for the other.

No, it isn't. This is just more false equivalency crap.

Bush did far more and far worse then Obama has even thought of doing.