Game 71.5

[Kat]

Dear Mod,

Provisional kill on Pebble. I do not like her to point out the obvious. Also I hate waiting.

Love,

Kat

<_<

[House Targaryen]

Piper of Chaos is lying in a pool of his own chocolate syrup.

Oh. And blood. Can't forget the blood. There is rather a lot of it, after all.

It is day 2.

11 players remain: Chairman Meow, Gertrude, Kat, LCOTNW, Lany Cassandra, Mentat, Mina Martell, Pebble That Hides, Ser Spidey, Sir Thursday, TheMalcolm.

6 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

11 players have not voted: Chairman Meow, Gertrude, Kat, LCOTNW, Lany Cassandra, Mentat, Mina Martell, Pebble That Hides, Ser Spidey, Sir Thursday, TheMalcolm.

[Gertrude]

I have a hard time believing Spidey's story. As noble as his explanation seems, I think coding and claiming finder would cause nothing but trouble and chaos - even if he was planning on saying what he said. If he were a finder, I'd expect him to code it earlier than he did. If he were an FM, it may not occur to him til a little later on that this would be the way to go - taking some time to weigh out the consequences and plan before deciding. Also, we have the fact that he pulled a very last minute reveal. Something an inno would try to avoid if at all possible because it causes all kinds of grief and sows too much chaos.

It's not impossible that he's telling it true, I just find it unlikely.

And now a moment of silence for Piper. :crying: My first thoughts on why him is that he didn't want to vote for me, and in order to keep my lynch very viable, they needed someone in that camp to die. That and being a generally strong player and maybe hitting on something important, which we will obviously overlook - cause that's how we roll.

[Gertrude]

Since no one seems to be around, I am off to bed.

I looked back at Piper and his main suspect was Spidey, but was ok with Pebble, LC and Kat. He had mentioned Lany and Malc as well. He liked Mentat and me. Putting this out here to refer to later.

[TheMalcolm]

I don't trust Spidey. Day 3 is generally the time when real finder should reveal, hiding for longer is too risky, and both guilty result or two CIs are best things we could expect from a finder. Spidey should understand this, so his plan of soft-claiming on Day 3 looks totally senseless for innocent. On other side, it's quite a good plan for a killer.

I still dislike Gert's posts, but Piper's death makes her looking much better (unless she is partnered with Spidey; I need to think if it is possible).

I am almost sure we should lynch ser Spidey, unless finder would reveal.

[TheMalcolm]

Interesting if Malc's vote switch is actually the reason we don't get a lynch.

It's exactly same story as in previous game, where I had refused voting Azazel before going to bed and we missed the lynch by one vote. And he was guilty, after all!

[Kat]

Here's what I wrote earlier, although in retrospect, I'm not sure if I understood Spider's claim when I wrote it.

Anyway, er.....does anyone else think Spidey's claim is BS? I mean, the code part. It looks like he went and found it later on, like SYNNP or the finder code in that game. I'm just sayin'. I don't necessarily think that means he's evil, but I do kind of wish I could slap him with a fish for that last minute "saaaaave meeeee" move.

Brilliantly done, by the way. But the reason I don't believe it is that faking a claim as an innocent, and then ANNOUNCING your fake claim DURING THE NIGHT is just ridiculously pointless. Wouldn't it have been more useful to actually keep your mouth shut and draw a FM kill? :bang:

[TheMalcolm]

Here's what I wrote earlier,

I completely agree with both parts.

[Kat]

So, in reading through the thread, I have to say that if I were playing by gut feeling alone, I'd probably have voted for Gertrude yesterday for the same reasons others suspected her; namely that there was just something a little off about her posting.

On the other hand, there's Spider, and I don't like the fact that he's still living right now

Let's assume for a moment that he's telling the truth, and he's got a 50% chance of being a finder, and 50% chance RI. If I were the killer, I'd be all over that 50% and would have killed him last night. There's nothing to lose by killing a finder claimant on the first day before they have any investigations. Yeah, and I'd kill him even though his code kind of sucks and seems like he made it up retrospectively.

So why is he not dead? Either the killers have more of a reason than I do to think he's not the finder (and thus fear Piper more than the actual finder--cause I don't think Piper was the finder, just a gut feeling on that one), or they know he has a 0% chance of being finder because he's one of them.

Either that or he's telling the truth and really is a RI trying to save his own ass. In which case, his claim of being possibly-RI during the night was stupid, and he should have known that, because if he really were RI trying to draw a kill, it would have been better to just leave the role claim unexplained rather than risk not dying. I'd believe that sort of thing from WJ, who always believes that a living RI WJ is better than a living finder (and tbh, it's usually true).

But I don't think I believe that self-serving illogical behavior out of Spider. Then again, I haven't played a lot recently. Tell me, is Spider customarily full of his own confidence in solving the game with his mind and no assistance from roles?

The other thing is, I'm almost certain that code was made up on the spot. Or rather, after the spot. It seems unlikely. So he had to wait until night to find something that seemed passable, rather than revealing it immediately. In all honesty, a finder revealing on day 1 at the last minute isn't a total loss for the innocents, right? On night 1, with no one lynched, there's a significant threat of a healer even if the healer doesn't even exist. So really, it makes more sense for a finder to actually reveal as a finder or just shut up, absorb some suspicion, and talk the next day than to claim the way Spider did. The way he did makes him look like he made it up. And if he made it up, as an evil, then he would have had to be pretty desperate to stay alive, i.e. he only has one partner.

Short of a finder coming out and declaring someone guilty, I'm fairly willing to lynch Spider today, although I realize that since I'm falling asleep while writing this, it's probably incoherent and full of logic gaps/loops (it makes sense to claim early because you'll be healed, but you could still draw a heal if you claimed at night, etc.) so maybe other people can throw their thoughts out and I can read/write in the morning.

[Kat]

Er, all that boils down to pretty much what Mal said. Need sleep.

I think Mal is innocent, btw.

[Mentat]

Here's what I wrote earlier, although in retrospect, I'm not sure if I understood Spider's claim when I wrote it.

It could also be preparation for a counter reveal. Games without CFs are where counter claims really shine.

Anyway, just to get this straight, Spider:

1) You haven't got a role, right?

2) What exactly were you planning on doing with that code of yours other than save your own skin? Please explain in detail.

Also... this just sucks in general. I'm not going to point out all the different tips we've been giving the FM as to who probably isn't the finder, but I can assure you they're there. This is not good innocent play.

[Mentat]

Either that or he's telling the truth and really is a RI trying to save his own ass. In which case, his claim of being possibly-RI during the night was stupid, and he should have known that, because if he really were RI trying to draw a kill, it would have been better to just leave the role claim unexplained rather than risk not dying. I'd believe that sort of thing from WJ, who always believes that a living RI WJ is better than a living finder (and tbh, it's usually true).

But I don't think I believe that self-serving illogical behavior out of Spider. Then again, I haven't played a lot recently. Tell me, is Spider customarily full of his own confidence in solving the game with his mind and no assistance from roles?

To be perfectly honest, the answer to that is probably yes. One of the reasons I ended up voting him was that I thought he wasn't really playing up to his usual standards, which I normally consider an evil tell.

[TheMalcolm]

Another thing: initially, Spidey said his role was provable. Which makes me think that he wanted to claim something like a vig. Finder role isn't provable, is it?

[Mentat]

Another thing: initially, Spidey said his role was provable. Which makes me think that he wanted to claim something like a vig. Finder role isn't provable, is it?

Not really, no. My impression is that he just wanted to survive, so he said anything which he thought would buy him enough time to make it past the day limit.

That said, finder role would probably be believed from anyone saying 'I'm the finder' unless there was a counter claim.

[TheMalcolm]

6 votes for Ser Spidey (Sir Thursday, Lany Cassandra, Piper of Chaos, Gertrude, LCOTNW, Mentat)

5 votes for Gertrude (Mina Martell, Pebble That Hides, Ser Spidey, TheMalcolm, Chairman Meow)

1 vote for Chairman Meow (Kat)

Presuming that Spidey is guilty: LCONTW, Mentat and Thursday can't be his partner. Lany is also unlikely. Mina's reaction to reveal (going to cry) looks very natural. Gert, as tihnk now, won't kill his fan Piper even in partnered with Spidey.

Leaves: Chairan Meow, Pebble or Kat. Kat was pretty agressive towards Spidey today, but I can see this as distancing.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 2.

11 players remain: Chairman Meow, Gertrude, Kat, LCOTNW, Lany Cassandra, Mentat, Mina Martell, Pebble That Hides, Ser Spidey, Sir Thursday, TheMalcolm.

6 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

1 vote for Ser Spidey (TheMalcolm)

10 players have not voted: Chairman Meow, Gertrude, Kat, LCOTNW, Lany Cassandra, Mentat, Mina Martell, Pebble That Hides, Ser Spidey, Sir Thursday.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Sorry, I had no internet last night. Not sure why, but hopefully the husband will get it fixed today.

I don't trust Spidey. Day 3 is generally the time when real finder should reveal, hiding for longer is too risky, and both guilty result or two CIs are best things we could expect from a finder. Spidey should understand this, so his plan of soft-claiming on Day 3 looks totally senseless for innocent. On other side, it's quite a good plan for a killer.

I still dislike Gert's posts, but Piper's death makes her looking much better (unless she is partnered with Spidey; I need to think if it is possible).

I am almost sure we should lynch ser Spidey, unless finder would reveal.

I agree. It was one of the worse, self-serving claims I have ever seen. I simply don't believe him.

Another thing: initially, Spidey said his role was provable. Which makes me think that he wanted to claim something like a vig. Finder role isn't provable, is it?

This was the other I picked up on...having a "code" does not prove anything. I'm going to vote Ser Spider today as well. I'll wait until later to cast it.

Another busy day with after auction funds to collect and distribute. Too bad I can't keep any of it. even 1% of $90mil would be nice.

[Mentat]

I'll just go over this again, because I'm bored and no one's around. Then you'll all be active while I'm sleeping and have all the fun without me. Anyway:

First letters ot the sentences are FIN. Last letters, read backwards, are DER. So, I've coded finder.

However, this is not what I'm claiming to be. For now, I'm actually claiming RI who put the code here to possibly help the real finder later on. The plan was to wait until day 3, post this code with 'maybe I'm a finder, maybe I'm a RI' comment, in order to get NKed and help the real finder's survival.

This story really doesn't hold. The more I read it the more I'm convinced the purpose of the code was more likely to be to provide grounds for a counter reveal. Also, you basically saved yourself from a lynch by claiming a role but now claim to be RI, so you lied exclusively to save your own neck.

I just can't imagine how your plan would play out. You either reveal finder or you don't, you can't simply come out on day three and say you might be a finder or you might not. It either fools everyone (so you false claim, risking a real finder counter and who knows what other awful stuff) or it fools no one (so everyone considers your claim absurd, and the FM are actually more likely to target someone else). Revealing finder on day 3 and not saying who you'd investigated would convince no one.

Anyway, you're a clever player, so I'm just not going to let you get away with some half-arsed explanation for these shenannigans.

[Mentat]

I'm also curious as to why Mina didn't hammer. You said you didn't believe Spider, you asked if you should hammer and Gert said you should... yet you didn't.

All in all (and with the hindsight of Spider's awful explanation), I think it was probably the right decision, but why do it if you didn't believe Spider was roled?

Pebble's reluctance I have a much easier time understanding, since she said she'd rather go to night even before Spider revealed a role.

[Mentat]

6 votes for Ser Spidey (Sir Thursday, Lany Cassandra, Piper of Chaos, Gertrude, LCOTNW, Mentat)

5 votes for Gertrude (Mina Martell, Pebble That Hides, Ser Spidey, TheMalcolm, Chairman Meow)

1 vote for Chairman Meow (Kat)

Presuming that Spidey is guilty: LCONTW, Mentat and Thursday can't be his partner. Lany is also unlikely. Mina's reaction to reveal (going to cry) looks very natural. Gert, as tihnk now, won't kill his fan Piper even in partnered with Spidey.

Leaves: Chairan Meow, Pebble or Kat. Kat was pretty agressive towards Spidey today, but I can see this as distancing.

I'm not so sure about Mina. The situation she could have been refering to (indirectly, of course) might be that of holding up the lynch past the deadline or cutting her partner in crime loose.

Remember that you changing your vote from Spidey to Gertrude was a direct result of her meddling.