Game 71.5

[Sir Thursday]

I'm not saying I won't 100%, still mulling over the arguments.

[Sir Thursday]

OK guys, I think I've come to the conclusion that a no-lynch today is actually a good thing. The kill actually works in our favour in this case because it immediately clears the player who was NKed. Armed with more knowledge and a smaller suspect pool, I think we'll be able to come to a stronger conclusion tomorrow.

And yeah, I know it's kind of a copout from making a decision over LCONTW. Sorry about that. But odd numbers are good for innos, right?

I don't know if we're actually going to manage to lynch someone today, and probably not LC. He's not going to vote for himself, and Mal is probably asleep by now, and Sir Thursday won't lynch him apparently. <_<

Hate this. I just want to lynch people and have the game end, right? How come we've had fewer lynches than non-lynches?

Come on now, play for the win! I'd much rather have another 28 hours of discussion and more information before making the lynches.

[Mina Martell]

Sir Thursday, that's a fantastic idea, since virtually everyone is a suspect (to people who aren't me <_<) at this point. The only disadvantage is that it will allow the killer to choose a favourable final three.

But I think you can tell just why I like that plan.

Two nightkills. Not one, but two.

I can guess who the nightkills will be. But more importantly, I can guess who they won't be. :devil:

[Sir Thursday]

Sir Thursday, that's a fantastic idea, since virtually everyone is a suspect (to people who aren't me <_<) at this point. The only disadvantage is that it will allow the killer to choose a favourable final three.

But I think you can tell just why I like that plan.

Two nightkills. Not one, but two.

I can guess who the nightkills will be. But more importantly, I can guess who they won't be. :devil:

Wouldn't the killer get to choose a favourable final 3 anyway? No matter how we swing this, there's going to be one lynch and two NKs before the final three, unless we make it a final four instead.

[Kat]

Er, crap, does that :devil: mean I just lost? :dunce:

[Sir Thursday]

Er, crap, does that :devil: mean I just lost? :dunce:

????

[Mina Martell]

Er, crap, does that :devil: mean I just lost? :dunce:

No, that :devil: means that a certain someone is going to be fucked over if he survives to endgame.

Kat, maybe you weren't following the last game, but I'm only an FM when they're called something like the Fluffy Bunny Poofy Pretty Horsies. I use the :angel: smiley when evil.

[Kat]

????

Er, paranoia? Whenever someone uses that smiley, it tends to mean that the killers just won. Like that the day ran out of time or something (haven't checked the timer) and there's 3 remaining killers.

ETA: Never mind, I guess Mina is not confessing to her guilt. Damn. :P

[Sir Thursday]

Er, paranoia? Whenever someone uses that smiley, it tends to mean that the killers just won. Like that the day ran out of time or something (haven't checked the timer) and there's 3 remaining killers.

ETA: Never mind, I guess Mina is not confessing to her guilt. Damn. :P

Hehe, if the game isn't over now, there's no way the game can be over tomorrow if we don't lynch. I think you're OK :P.

:devil:

Just joking

[Kat]

:devil: Just joking

I hate you. <_<

[Sir Thursday]

And that hate warms the cockles of my heart ;).

Anywho, I'm off to bed. Goodnight everyone!

[Mina Martell]

Wouldn't the killer get to choose a favourable final 3 anyway? No matter how we swing this, there's going to be one lynch and two NKs before the final three, unless we make it a final four instead.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. We're at six players. If we lynch wrong today, then we'll be at four--meaning there will be only one more night-kill before endgame. Going to night will give us the same number of lynches, but an extra player will die. The only disadvantage is that the killer can get rid of an extra threat, and leave alive players who are more likely to support the mislynches they want to support. But I still love this plan.

Mind you, I suppose the killer could withhold. You know, withhold, because he didn't feel like killing the "CI" proven vig whom everyone refuses to lynch. Just because my scumhunting skills are so sharp that it's of the utmost importance to keep me distracted.

[Mina Martell]

Well, if Sir Thursday's going to bed, then any lynch is impossible.

Go to night.

Thursday, can you vote night so that the day doesn't last until the deadline?

(My God, Mentat and Malc are going to have a fit when they come back.)

[Mina Martell]

So not that I'm tunnel-visioned or anything. Not at all. But I'd like to discuss a player who hasn't received enough attention.

Earlier in the day, Malc responds to the nightkill with this horrendously scummy post:

It's quite disappointing. I'd prefer to be at the spoilers heaven now.

I feel being frame either by Mina or by somebody who is cleverly manipulating her.

Anyhow, nothing happened that should force us to stop following the plan.

Mina Martell.

Way to leave his options open if the game doesn't end with my lynch, and take no stand whatsoever. Anyway, I call him on the fact that he's contributed nothing other than pushing the lynch-Pebbles-and-Mina plan. I yell at him to take a stand. His stance: yesterday he was leaning toward Pebbles, but now he has no opinion.

We interact with each other for a bit, he defends himself from my accusations but does no actual scumhunting, admits to being lazy, refuses to contribute until he gets to the final three, and takes very weak jabs at me. I've explained over and over again why I found his reactions scummy, although I think no one is reading my posts anymore. But anyway, he certainly implies that he thinks I'm evil--such as in this blatant misrepresentation of my defence:

Your made a big fuss about a minor point and keep insisting that your explanation of your play is the only sensible one. That's exactly what WJ does when evil.

Yet when all of a sudden, mentat and Sir Thursday agree that I looked innocent (and mentat comes to the charmingly naive conclusion that Malc was left alive as a distraction for me), Malc flip-flops on me. Out of nowhere. But worse, he leaves his vote on me and justifies it with this:

I agree [that Mina and I were left alive to distract each other], and this worked.

For now, I evaluate probability of Mina being innocent as 60-70%, which evidently isn't enough to let her to stay around.

In fact, even if she is innocent, she is of no help to us, since her power is used up and her suspicions are terribly wrong. Sadly, you find exacty precise word: distraction.

This is the biggest pile of B.S. ever. Malc, even if you are innocent, then you're no help to us, since your power is used up and your suspicions are terribly wrong. Oh, and also? Unlike me, you haven't done a single reread all game.

I can't believe NO ONE finds this scummy.

Yes, I know Malc has a reputation for being blunt, to-the-point, and unconventional, so people (myself included) tend to give him the benefit of the doubt even when he's spouting bullshit. But here we are, near endgame, without any information. Everyone else--Kat, mentat, Sir Thursday, even LCOTNW--is scrambling for answers, evaluating my claim, trying to figure out the best course of action, and look for partners. Yet Malc has done shit. He did nothing but insist that I should be lynched...and then, when people suggested the possibility that I was innocent, he went along with their assessment. But worse, rather than change his mind on me or consider an alternate lynch, he's just said WE SHOULD LYNCH AN INNOCENT PLAYER JUST BECAUSE HER OPINIONS ARE WRONG!

Please. Take off your "Malc is a CI" blinders for a second and read that quote. Let the full force of what it implies hit you. Ask yourselves this: throughout the game, has LCOTNW done anything scummier than this? Has Kat? Have I?

This morning, I had sincere doubts over his alignment. But this clinches it for me. Please read that post and decide for yourselves if you still believe Malc is "CI."

It's not that simple. It's more complex question which is known as safety. Linching both Pebble and Mina, we are 100% to get rid of a guilty; lynching Pebble only, we take 60-70% of success, which is extremely worse.

In fact, Mina herself said the same thing: we should vote out her if we aren't 100% sure of her innnocence. Are you?

Um...actually, that's not what I said at all?

No one can be 100% certain of anyone's innocence in Mafia. What I meant was that since so many people were deadset on the lynch-both-claimants strategy, and seemed to have doubts over my claim, that I didn't want to be the final lynch in endgame.

But if you're not sure of my innocence, but think I look more innocent than other players in the game, then obviously, don't lynch me just because someone claimed my role. Lynch me because you think I'm less likely to be the healer than another player is to be RI (or than Malc is to be an innocent vig).

[House Targaryen]

It is day 5.

6 players remain: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday, TheMalcolm.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or 3 to go to night.

2 votes for LCOTNW (Mentat, Kat)

2 votes for Mina Martell (TheMalcolm, LCOTNW)

1 vote for Night (Mina Martell)

1 players have not voted: Sir Thursday.

I'll (DJ) be back in an hour.

[LCOTNW]

Look, we were all expecting a finder reveal on Day 3. Everyone was. Except for you. Pretty much everyone had eliminated themselves as a candidate for the role by that point, all speculation about each other aside, so making a point was kind of pointless, wasn't it? From the POV of an innocent, can you see why being messed with would really be irksome, considering how much it affected our lynch choices that day? It didn't benefit the innocents at all; it just stalled us and stalled us.

Just because it was irksome to you doesn't make it evil. I obviously didn't handle it right. I should have just asked Mina not to talk about it. I probably should have put a stop to the distraction sooner, but I really thought that people would recognize that it was better not to force people to talk about it. I think it would have been okay for Mina to say something like "I assume the finder is dead since there was no reveal, I guess we'll have to find a way to win without a finder." I would have totally ignored that kind of comment as it does not implicate anyone living, and the finder (if still alive) is free to go about his business. If there was indeed a living finder, Mina starting to discuss living players that could not be the finder was definitely a bad move and potentially harmed the innocents. So, I would say you are absolutely wrong to say it was pointless.

What do you think about the questions I asked Mentat? If I am evil, why didn't I vote Gert on Day 1? Why did I bring up going to night when a lynch of a potential innocent was still very likely and would not implicate me? Why would an evil player risk pushing discussion of lynching other players instead of allowing Malc to Vig his personal choice without discussion or pressure?

Do you see me as a likely partner to Pebbles? Or are you just defaulting that I am a partner to Pebbles because you find the non-finder claim to be damning evidence and you believe Mina? I feel like you are ignoring or rationalizing the things I've done to help, while at the same time clearing others with your gut reactions.

[Mina Martell]

LCOTNW, can you vote for night to end this?

I'll admit I kind of put my foot in my mouth there. Sir Thursday voted for me in part for speculating on the identity of a roled player, so I defended myself by saying, "Um...duh, by now we should know there are no surviving roles?" And there was still a tiny doubt in my mind that you could have been the finder and I'd blown your cover up, so it was safer to insist that you had no role. But I'd have felt better about you if you'd claimed to be trying to draw a NK rather than teaching me a stern lesson on the dangers of role speculation.

I think an evil player might have suggested the reversal of the lynch-and-vig order so as to look helpful. Going to night is a safe way to ruffle no feathers--and of course, you ended up following the crowd and voting for Ser Spidey, anyway. But if it's any consolation, I think you probably aren't Pebble's partner, although you're the clear number two option. (Mind you, it's probably in my best interest to push your lynch, since there's no way you'll ever vote Malc over me.)

But LC, can you deny that your behaviour has been pretty damn suspicious all game? And that you've been very wishy-washy, and spent more time talking about the set-up than attacking players? Is there a reason for that?

Also, why did you drop all those finder hints on Day Two?

[TheMalcolm]

Anyway, I call him on the fact that he's contributed nothing other than pushing the lynch-Pebbles-and-Mina plan.

So? It's my duty as innocent to push for the plan, especially since nobody else do. It's called specialization. Some people do rereads, some do advertize strategical thinking.

he's just said WE SHOULD LYNCH AN INNOCENT PLAYER JUST BECAUSE HER OPINIONS ARE WRONG!

We should lynch a player who might be innocent but has reasonable chance to be guilty. I'd still say better chance than anybody else.

I won't vote LC. But ok, we will have to go to night tomorrow anyway, so we can do same today just as well.

[LCOTNW]

This morning, I had sincere doubts over his alignment. But this clinches it for me. Please read that post and decide for yourselves if you still believe Malc is "CI."

Malc is VPI, not CI, but the difference to me depends more on the balance of the game, not Malc's behavior. No matter how scummy you paint Malc, you have to make a convincing argument that the killers would be given a double kill and still have a "vanilla" and balanced game. So far we know we had a limited healer, and presume we had a finder. The killers get the advantage of no CF and they get a vig? It just doesn't sound right since the killers could get 3 kills (plus two potential innocent lynches)before day 3 begins and a very good chance to hit the finder before a reveal. In a 2FM game that could mean starting day 3 with 5 dead innocents and 5 living innocents. In a 3FM game it could be 3 FM vs. 4 innocents at the start of day 3 (endgame).

It is theoretically possible to balance an evil vig, I suppose, but indications are that we do not have anything to balance it in this game.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 5.

6 players remain: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday, TheMalcolm.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or 3 to go to night.

2 votes for LCOTNW (Mentat, Kat)

2 votes for Mina Martell (TheMalcolm, LCOTNW)

1 vote for Night (Mina Martell)

1 players have not voted: Sir Thursday.

--------------------

Nobody was lynched!

It is Night. Send me your PM's! And thoughts. :)