Why did Jamie kill Aerys?

[Antonius Pius]

No, I meant that the argument was that the other KG would have let Rossart go, and also that they may well have carried out the order if so ordered. If Aerys told them to go tell the pyromancers would they have obeyed?

OK. I dunno. I doubt the other KG would have passed the order on, but would they have stopped Rossart... I don't know. In the days preceding the fall of KL, Jaime was with Aerys all the time, which is why he heard it all. He recalls Lord Chelsted arguing, cajoling, threatening and begging Aerys to reconsider his plan of burning KL. Had the other KG been there for all that, they might have supported Chelsted against Rossart. Burning KL was an evil of such a magnitude, I have to believe they would have done something, if only out of self-interest. But I really don't know.

[Godlikebuthumble]

In addition to all of our speculation and analysis:

Why did Jaime kill Aerys?

'Coz bitch had it comin'.

Sorry, had to.

[dolorouseddwasright]

In addition to all of our speculation and analysis:

Why did Jaime kill Aerys?

'Coz bitch had it comin'.

Sorry, had to.

Quite all right, Old Bean. A few pages back I put as my answer for why Jaime killed Aerys "It seemed like a good idea at the time".

[3idcrow]

It's weird that people tend to blame Cersei all the time for Jaime's behavior. Some idiot said that when Jaime saw Bran fall off the ledge, his first instinct was to protect the kid and pull him up. But afterward, evil Cersei somehow mind-controlled good Jaime into throwing Bran.

I swear, I have read posts that blame Cersei for Jory Cassel's death.

Both Jaime and Cersei were arrogant cunts since they were kids. Only recently is Jaime improving.

OK, if Jaime didn't throw Bran out of the window for Cersei (and kids) he undoubtely did it for himself, right? If so, do you think Jaime would do the same if Bran caught him fucking any other woman?

[Alexia]

OK, if Jaime didn't throw Bran out of the window for Cersei (and kids) he undoubtely did it for himself, right? If so, do you think Jaime would do the same if Bran caught him fucking any other woman?

Being caught with another woman isn't the kiss of death that being caught with the Queen is. He didn't try to kill Bran for catching him having sex, he tried to kill him for catching him at high treason.

Incidentally, I don't believe Jaime had a single paternal thought towards his children at that stage of the books. He calls his first-born no more than a squirt of seed in Cersei's cunt. Descriptive, that.

[The SmilingKnight]

Because Aerys was a douchebag.

:rofl:

And Rosart a square.

[3idcrow]

Being caught with another woman isn't the kiss of death that being caught with the Queen is. He didn't try to kill Bran for catching him having sex, he tried to kill him for catching him at high treason.

So you think if Bran caught Jaime with the queen Maergary he'd be thrown out of the window just the same?

[Alexia]

So you think if Bran caught Jaime with the queen Maergary he'd be thrown out of the window just the same?

Yes, high treason. Jaime wants many things in life but death is not one of them. It wasn't even one of them when his hand got cut off. OTOH, if Bran caught him with Pia he would not have thrown Bran out the window because his life wouldn't be in danger.

Knights are all killers...Sandor is very right about that. Jaime doesn't even feel particularly guilty for trying to murder a seven-year old.

[3idcrow]

Yes, high treason. Jaime wants many things in life but death is not one of them. It wasn't even one of them when his hand got cut off. OTOH, if Bran caught him with Pia he would not have thrown Bran out the window because his life wouldn't be in danger.

See, I don't believe it. There's no way of knowing it for sure, of course, but I don't think Jaime would kill Bran to save his own skin. I'm not blaming Cersei for Bran's fall but I think Jaime did it for her. "Things we do for love", you know.

I think Jaime in his pride thinks himself to be above the law. High treason is for someone else, he is a Kingslayer after all. Besides, he puts his life in danger all the time.

[Mad Monkey]

It's weird that people tend to blame Cersei all the time for Jaime's behavior. Some idiot said that when Jaime saw Bran fall off the ledge, his first instinct was to protect the kid and pull him up. But afterward, evil Cersei somehow mind-controlled good Jaime into throwing Bran.

To be perfectly fair, I can see where those people are coming from. Jaime did pull Bran up initially, before throwing him down to his death. Of course, Jaime's change of heart is hardly Cersei's fault; she didn't even say anything!

Bran’s fingers started to slip. He grabbed the ledge with his other hand. Fingernails dug into unyielding stone. The man reached down. “Take my hand,” he said. “Before you fall.”

Bran seized his arm and held on tight with all his strength. The man yanked him up to the ledge. “What are you doing?” the woman demanded.

The man ignored her. He was very strong. He stood Bran up on the sill. “How old are you, boy?”

“Seven,” Bran said, shaking with relief. His fingers had dug deep gouges in the man’s forearm. He let go sheepishly.

The man looked over at the woman. “The things I do for love,” he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.

Jaime didn't have to push Bran. In fact, later on in the series Cersei snaps at him for having done that, saying something along the lines of "We could have threatened him!" instead. Cersei has a lot to answer for, but what happened to Bran is pretty much all Jaime. It's part of Jaime's character arc, I think; he goes from false nobility during the Aerys years, then after he kills Aerys he goes to mega-douchebag mode, then after he becomes disenchanted with Cersei he tries to regain true honor.

[Alexia]

Jaime isn't even sorry for throwing Bran; he's sorry Cersei got mad at him.

What do we have here, an honest muttonhead or a lickspittle?

Ser Cleos prattled blithely on. "Any man who'd believe that a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard would harm a child does not know the meaning of honor."

Lickspittle.

If truth be told, Jaime had come to rue heaving Brandon Stark out that window. Cersei had given him no end of grief afterward, when the boy refused to die.

Quite frankly, Jaime's attitude towards the whole thing is disgusting. Of course a kingsguard would hurt a child and everyone knows it. I've come to rue it, after Cersei yelled at me when my victim didn't die. :stillsick:

[Mad Monkey]

Of course a kingsguard would hurt a child and everyone knows it.

That's a fairly accurate statement. All of the Kingsguards except for Sandor Clegane participated in Sansa's abuse. Hurting children actually appears to be a job requirement for them. Jaime's perspective is unique only in that, as far as we know, he's only brutalized a child once instead of every week like the other 5.

[Alexia]

That's a fairly accurate statement. All of the Kingsguards except for Sandor Clegane participated in Sansa's abuse. Hurting children actually appears to be a job requirement for them. Jaime's perspective is unique only in that, as far as we know, he's only brutalized a child once instead of every week like the other 5.

It is, but with that blase attitude towards it what makes him different or more honorable than the rest? To be fair, I'm not sure that the two-handed Jaime would have beaten Sansa but mostly b/c he'd already been pushed to the brink with that sort of thing with Aerys.

For that matter, Arys Oakheart objected to Sansa's abuse and was horrified by it...which makes him slightly easier to forgive than Jaime who acts like, yes, hurting children is a job requirement and no big deal.

[Guest Other-in-Law]

For that matter, Arys Oakheart objected to Sansa's abuse and was horrified by it...which makes him slightly easier to forgive than Jaime who acts like, yes, hurting children is a job requirement and no big deal.

Hmm...I think Jaime's attitude is a little more complicated. He berates the child-abusing KG in his first formal meeting with them as KG and argues against blind obedience. So, it seems his cynical attitude is "that's the way the world works, and cousin Cleos is lickspittle for pretending it isn't since he damned well knows better." But when he's calling the shots over KG behavior, he means to change it...but at the same time he did push Bran and doesn't really regret it, as you point out. So he's hypocritical.

I think it largely boils down to moral laziness. He wishes it was easy to be a shining white knight who everyone admires like Arthur Dayne, but it's just too hard, goshdarnit! That would mean giving up banging his sister behind the King's back and not committing attempted murder to cover it up. Oh why is live so difficult? Poor Jaime.*

*Though to be fair Arthur Dayne didn't have to chose between honouring his holy vow to obey the king and not ennabling the mass murder of an entire city.

[dolorouseddwasright]

So Jaime wants the Kingsguard to think for themselves and not blindly follow his orders? Great, now what do I do with all those "What Would Jaime Do?" bracelets and posters I got? Can't sell them in Kings Landing now.

Sorry, total insanity claimed me for a moment.

But I'm feeling much better now.

[Mad Monkey]

It is, but with that blase attitude towards it what makes him different or more honorable than the rest? To be fair, I'm not sure that the two-handed Jaime would have beaten Sansa but mostly b/c he'd already been pushed to the brink with that sort of thing with Aerys.

I don't know if he would or would not have beaten Sansa. I honestly don't think that it would have been much better off he had been or not. Jaime now realizes that abusing women and children might, occasionally, be somewhat morally questionable, but back then I don't think he would have cared for Sansa's feelings at all. If he held back from hurting her, it would only be because he doesn't respect Joffrey enough to do something like for him.

So Jaime wants the Kingsguard to think for themselves and not blindly follow his orders? Great, now what do I do with all those "What Would Jaime Do?" bracelets and posters I got? Can't sell them in Kings Landing now.

Just scratch out Jaime and put "The Seven Who Are One" (you might have to pay a higher fee for that) and sell them to the Stars and the Swords.

[MineIsTheFury]

That's a fairly accurate statement. All of the Kingsguards except for Sandor Clegane participated in Sansa's abuse. Hurting children actually appears to be a job requirement for them. Jaime's perspective is unique only in that, as far as we know, he's only brutalized a child once instead of every week like the other 5.

Joffrey never asked him to hurt Sansa IIRC, we don't really know for sure what he would do

[Alexia]

Joffrey never asked him to hurt Sansa IIRC, we don't really know for sure what he would do

Joffrey ordered him to beat her and he stood frozen for a moment before Dontos saved him. Then he tried to get Joffrey to stop.

[Spastic Plastic]

For that matter, Arys Oakheart objected to Sansa's abuse and was horrified by it...which makes him slightly easier to forgive than Jaime who acts like, yes, hurting children is a job requirement and no big deal.

But Arys Oakheart was a pussy. It even says in AFFC that he punched Sansa more times than he could count, while feeling sorry for himself for being in that situation. I don't think Jaime would have hit Sansa, both because he's had enough of that behavior during Aerys' reign, and because he won't take petty orders from a squirt in Cersei's cunt.

Pretty much everything Arys Oakheart does is pathetic, even the way he died.

[King Bronn l]

Ot question. It's mentioned by someone that Aerys reign started off well, but slowly went downhill. My question is does anyone else think Aery's was a prophet? Perhaps he was seeing the war against the others? Hence his let them reign over bones and ash comment?(I know I misquoted that). Prophecy is in the Targ bloodline after all, and it would explain Aerys fascination with wildfire.