Who are the 10 best swordsmen in the series?

[Lord Redbeard]

This thread makes me tired. A lot of people are writing stuff like "Barristan is too old and slow therefore he is not on my list" while at the same time writing "Jamie Lannister (with two hands) is in my top 3.

Why can you alter the conditions for Jaime but not for Barristan?

I think everyone should be regarded as if in their prime (therefore also dead people are allowed). That is the only way these lists can be somewhat objective.

So my list of top 10 fighters (in their prime)

1. Arthur Dayne

2. Jaime Lannister

3. Syrio Forel

4. Gregor Clegane

5. Areo Hotah

6. Barristan Selmy

7. Robert Baratheon

8. Sandor Clegane

9. The Red Viper

10. Strong Belwas

[Athanasius Pernath]

1) What about Eddard and Jaime fighting then after Cat takes Tyrion? The scene from the book escapes my mind, yet again (perhaps one day I shall reread), but I certainly remember in the TV series that Jaime takes him on with a level of caution. Is it similar in the book?

2) at the ToJ yet only two came out alive. I'd argue that for Eddard and Howland Reed to survive they would have to have been good fighters.

1) no, that stuff is only in the TV show. in the books they don't even touch each other directly. lucky for Ned, 'cause in the books Jaime can kill him while taking a piss :) in the show, for 'dramatic' reasons, Ned is a badass fighter. A very badass fighter. in GRRM mind, he isn't

2) we know nothing about Howland Reed (but we have some hint that he is not a 'fighter' at all, not by westerosi standard, but that he has very 'special', maybe almost mystical skills) but we know that Ned say that the ONLY reason for him being alive is thanks to Howland, that saved him when he was fighting Arthur Dayne. in the books is pretty obvious that yeah, people from the North like to think that Eddard won an amazing duel against Arthur Dayne..but this is just not the truth, absolutely. Ned was nowhere near the level of Dayne, at all

[The BlackBear]

IIRC Jaime gets captured because his sword gets stuck in someone (possibly a Karstark.)

Ned says AD would have killed him if not for Howland. It's pretty widely accepted that Howland used either a net, or his children of the forest powers to hinder AD.

[ManceSnow]

The problem with this is 1. a lot of the 'evidence' is reported speech from other characters i.e. 'oh Jaime is the best swordsman ever' and 2. how 'best' is ranked: is it most skilled? most likely to win a 1v1? most likely to win a 1v5? armoured, not armoured?

any way I rank them is gonna be imperfect, but I'd go for rankings based on characters as we've seen them in the books, meaning no 'Barristan in his younger years' or 'Arthur Dayne', but can allow for 'Jaime with two hands' etc, since he's been in that state during the books. I'm also going to go for ranking based on their preferred fighting style, i.e. dothraki unarmoured, Syrio quick and light.

I also think a good way of doing it is thinking of it like this: who would I most want to back me up walking through a dodgy neighborhood full of murderous outlaws

1. Jaime Lannister (as far as I'm aware, we haven't seen during the books anyone as good as him. His performance in the Battle of the Whispering Wood, his fight vs Brienne, hearsay)

2. Strong Belwas (its a shame that he doesnt use armour, but in terms of evidence, this guy is way up there. He's survived the fight pits for years, Illyrio ranked him alongside Barristan, he beat a mounted knight 1v1, he's huge etc)

3. Sandor Clegane (Jaime remarks that he's an incredible fighter, he beats several men while wasted on wine, he beats a fire-sword dondarrion in a flame ring, holds true against his brother)

4. Hotah (its tough between him and number 5, but realistically, id feel safer with this guy next to me. He's huge, he lives to fight, he knows he can beat Arys [his first chapter], and he's the captain of the guard)

5. Syrio (could be number 4, but during the books he isn't at his best. He says that he used to be first sword of Braavos, which means for some reason he isn't anymore. But he's incredible, and beats armoured knights with a leaden wood sword)

6. Garlan Tyrell (he's said to be Loras but without all the useless arrogance and flair, meaning that he can focus on seriousness. He's chosen to guard the king in the absence of the KG, and also to wear Renlys armour at blackwater)

7. Barristan (although he's old, there are plenty of references to say that he hasnt lost any of his skill, and evidence to back it up. While he might lose a straight fight to someone younger, he's the quintessential knight/bodyguard)

8. Brienne (immensely strong and lightning fast, Brienne manages to hold her own while simply defending against a Jaime intent on killing her [admittedly he's weak and chained, but he's #1 on my list], also has a Valyrian blade)

9. Gregor (He had to come at some point, and i've put him here because I think that everyone above him could beat him, but otherwise anyone else would be hard pressed. Impossibly strong and excellently skilled with a knights instinct)

10. Victarion (a bit like Gregor, but just less huge. Very large however, very strong, and huge resistance to pain. Also helps being Ironborn [instant badass])

Unsure:

Drogo (yeah his hair hasn't been cut, but thats not necessarily due to his own skill, more his leadership and huge army, but he's awesome)

Randyll Tarly (has a Valyrian blade, also said to be best soldier in the realm, could just be military skill though and not actual fighting)

Darkstar (most dangerous man in Dorne, but that's not necessarily fighting, could just be psycho-like anger or evilness or something)

Halfhand (didn't see him enough to rank him)

Greatjon (his performance at the red wedding is pretty good going, but doesnt really show his actual fighter skill)

Red Viper (quick and skilled, but I wouldn't back him against most of the top 10)

[Jon Wolfwalker]

In the quotw where Martin says Dayne would beat Barristan if he had Dawn, Martin also says that if Dayne didn't have Dawn it would be a tie.

I have to ask. Why? Is it that A.D. is used to a greatsword? My point being a LOT of people quote the Ned getting trounced by Bronze in the practice yard. In all the books all the practice swords are longswords(as far as I can remember). Which is where Ned got his licks in that scene.

I admit GRRM states he was a competent swordsman, if you are used to one weapon and given another it creates a dilema of the memory given. Yohn might have known that, in all the scenes we see he supports the Starks almost to a fault.

[Belisarius09]

I don't agree with putting certain characters in the top 10 and heres why.

Jon Snow: Lost to Mance

Brienne :"beat" Jaime when he was tired and malnurished. Later lost to biter.

Sandor: weakness to fire

Gregor: no actual skill, just phenomenal strength, Gerold Hightower was extremely strong, he was called "the white Bull" but he didn't rely on his strength alone, he was also exceptionally skilled.

Despite these reasons, these 4 characters have made it onto many of the lists posted in this thread. Meanwhile truly skilled warriors like Yohn Royce aka "Bronze Yohn" has only been listed once or twice. Cmon guys you can do better. :P

[Free Northman]

I have to ask. Why? Is it that A.D. is used to a greatsword? My point being a LOT of people quote the Ned getting trounced by Bronze in the practice yard. In all the books all the practice swords are longswords(as far as I can remember). Which is where Ned got his licks in that scene.

I admit GRRM states he was a competent swordsman, if you are used to one weapon and given another it creates a dilema of the memory given. Yohn might have known that, in all the scenes we see he supports the Starks almost to a fault.

Martin obviously meant that Dawn gives you an advantage over someone with a normal or even a Valyrian sword.

Martin stated clearly that Barristan and Arthur Dayne are equal in pure skill, and better than anyone else.

Neither of them are particular favourites of mine, but there we have it, straight from the author's mouth.

There's no arguing with them being at the top.

[Athanasius Pernath]

Despite these reasons, these 4 characters have made it onto many of the lists posted in this thread. Meanwhile truly skilled warriors like Yohn Royce aka "Bronze Yohn" has only been listed once or twice. Cmon guys you can do better. :P

i absolutely agree with you on the first part. Jon or Gregor aren't 'top tier swordsman at all'. of course, Gregor is a top tier fighter, 'cause of his size, but he's nothing exceptional as a swordsman. and Jon..well, Jon is good, but is miles away from the true top. i don't think Sandor weakness to fire is a real weakness in a duel. i mean..come on, how many time can you face a man holding a magic firesword?

i disagree on 'Bronze Yohn'. of course, he's a powerful man. the point is, he's a great warrior, but in the book is hinted that Jason Mallister is also a powerful man, a strong Lord-swordsman, a lot better than capable Lord-swordsman Ned Stark. Yeah, Yohn Royce beated the crap out of Ned and Rodrik..but i think Jason Mallister could do the same. in the end, i mean, i don't think they are as powerful as Big Jon Umber, for example, and i'm sure they're not considered 'top tier swordsmen' like the real 'sword-fanboys' like Jaime, Barristan, Arthur Dayne, ecc. :)

[Vargo Hoat's Teddy Bear]

1) no, that stuff is only in the TV show. in the books they don't even touch each other directly. lucky for Ned, 'cause in the books Jaime can kill him while taking a piss :)

I'[m pretty sure tht was Jaime describing Arthur Dayne

[therealbando]

I don't agree with putting certain characters in the top 10 and heres why.

Jon Snow: Lost to Mance

Brienne :"beat" Jaime when he was tired and malnurished. Later lost to biter.

Sandor: weakness to fire

Gregor: no actual skill, just phenomenal strength, Gerold Hightower was extremely strong, he was called "the white Bull" but he didn't rely on his strength alone, he was also exceptionally skilled.

Despite these reasons, these 4 characters have made it onto many of the lists posted in this thread. Meanwhile truly skilled warriors like Yohn Royce aka "Bronze Yohn" has only been listed once or twice. Cmon guys you can do better. :P

Sandor did beat Beric Dondarrion who was using a flaming sword, so the fire weakness I think is a bit overrated

[Jon Wolfwalker]

Martin obviously meant that Dawn gives you an advantage over someone with a normal or even a Valyrian sword.

Martin stated clearly that Barristan and Arthur Dayne are equal in pure skill, and better than anyone else.

Neither of them are particular favourites of mine, but there we have it, straight from the author's mouth.

There's no arguing with them being at the top.

Oh really? Your a liar.

[Ser Areo Mace]

Oh really? Your a liar.

Liar? how is he lying, those are words straight from GRRM's mouth.

[Rolex Baratheon]

Brienne above Barristan? xD

[Jon Wolfwalker]

Liar? how is he lying, those are words straight from GRRM's mouth.

The same way I can say GRRM is a fibber. :P

If I can't have a little fun on this forum why not call it Westeerclearof.orginalfun.....Speculation is all we have for the next 3 years.

[Jon Wolfwalker]

Brienne above Barristan? xD

Brienne would gut him like a babe....her only dispute now is with Stan when he admits he was a coward for killing his brother.

[W.Kane]

Brienne would gut him like a babe....her only dispute now is with Stan when he admits he was a coward for killing his brother.

keep dreaming.

[Jon Wolfwalker]

keep dreaming.

Seriously, how would you take it if that was the outcome?

King Stannis, dead by the hand of a "wench"?

[Athanasius Pernath]

I'[m pretty sure tht was Jaime describing Arthur Dayne

yep, he was :) he was describing Arthur Dayne , comparing him with the current Kingsguard

[Jon Wolfwalker]

keep dreaming.

For the record Stannis is not even mentioned for his sword skill. Brienne would put him over her knee.

[Rolex Baratheon]

Stannis is big, tall, strong etc etc but being a commander he doesn't seem to have gotten much into combat. He has fought before, we know that, but it doesn't really matter getting an idea of how good he is.