Who will be the final King and Queen?

[Ecclesiastes]

Dany - you seem to have a reasonably positive opinion about her now - but what was the justification for saying she's "not very smart"? Plus, if Jon can grow, why can't Dany? They're the same age... and Dany certainly doesn't have as far to go.

Jon - I don't mean to be snarky... but if you want the "young man from humble background finds out he is secret king, saves the world and rules with his beloved" act, there are plenty of other fantasy novels out there (oh, about 90% of them).

Tyrion - I think you have a typically whitewashed view of Tyrion and his actions, influenced by his extremely self-serving PoV but that belongs in another thread.

Mel will most likely be dragon meat ^^

Jon- Actually I think you do mean to be snarky. I'm trying to predict what's going to happen in the book by stating that Jon fits the archetype of the hero better than Dany. You saying that 90% of stories have this archetype only proves my point. Perhaps GRRM is not going that route but only time will tell I guess.

Tyrion- More snark here.... And what is that supposed to mean? Tyrion does not tell the story to us, we see it through his eyes without his knowledge that a story is being told. He is certainly self-serving (which is one of his less appealing qualities) but the story is not told in a way that is self-serving and designed to influence anybody to his cause. If one is influenced by his POV to like him, it is the writers intention based on the character's actions and thoughts, not the characters' desire to influence us. I would argue that Tyrion seems to be a villian most of the time and yet he comes across as likable. He is a grey character who I could just as easily hate for his actions in the book. He is a murderer, is brutally honest and hurtful, he is spiteful, jealous and self-serving. Despite all that I like him which tells me the author wants him to be an anti-hero. That leads me to think there is a chance he might come out on top if GRRM decided to put this story on it's ear.

Dany- Here's snarky for you. You come across as a total Dany fanboi who has his mind made up already. You know she is going to "win" and no argument will change that. Good for you.

But to answer your questions..... She has less room to grow than Jon because she started the story as Dany Stormborn, the exiled princess and potential heir to the throne whereas Jon started as Jon the Bastard going nowhere. If Dany prevails it's really not that much of a twist or stretch of the imagination is it? There has to be some reason why GRRM decided to spend so much time telling her story despite the fact that it was so remote to most of the central characters. In fact after her 2nd POV I'd bet pretty much everyone who read the book KNEW she was going to be huge in this book and probably become a queen again. The only question I really have is will she be a good queen or bad, will she unite the kingdoms or cause disarray.

I see that saying Dany does not seem very smart has riled you up to her defense. Maybe saying she's not smart was unfair. She's 14 years old and scared as hell throughout most of her story. She may be smart but she is weak, naive, too trusting at least in the beginning.

There are many examples of Dany being a weak character who comes across as naive. You know her story well I'm sure. Here are just a few off the top of my head.... Her brother dominates her and sells her to a barbarian. She meekly accepts it, is basically forced into submission and winds up falling in love with her neanderthal rapist husband. Her best friend, Ser Jorah, is actually spying on her. She is tricked into sacrificing her unborn child for the useless life of her vegetable husband. She leads her people to death and starvation by following a comet in the sky. In Qaarth she basically get run out of town on a rail despite the fact that she has the only 3 dragons in existence and a great claim to the iron throne. Throughout the story she trusts anyone who is kind to her until they give her reason not to. Towards the end of her story she begins to be more shrewd and makes some good decision but leaves a lot of chaos in her wake. She frees the slaves but the cities are quickly co-opted as soon as she leaves.

I'm sure you could go point by point and justify all of her actions as genius as only a fanboi could but honestly she does not come across as brilliant to the reader. She comes across as someone who is learning on the job to become what she was destined to become. She smartly hatched her dragons, got an army and has figured out that she need to learn how to rule before making another step. Good for her, she has hope and she very well might come out on top in the end.

"Dany will be a queen" you say, I say she already is one, but for how long.....

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I'm sure you could go point by point and justify all of her actions as genius as only a fanboi

Girl. I do fully admit to being a fan of Dany - I think my handle here is sign enough of that (even if I can't spell).

could but honestly she does not come across as brilliant to the reader.

It's certainly debatable how she comes across to "the reader". Heck, we wouldn't be having these discussions if everyone agreed on what character X is like. There are plenty of people on these boards that agree with me that Dany has shown both brilliant leadership skills and thoughtful reflection about her actions.

Most people here that dislike Dany don't think she's naive and inactive as you have suggested - rather they think she's bloodthirsty and arrogant. So there are at least three distinct ways she comes across. I think it's actually quite interesting that three such different versions of a character can exist at once.

For similar examples of controversial characters, see Tyrion, Jon, and Catelyn.

"Dany will be a queen" you say, I say she already is one, but for how long.....

Fair enough.

[Errant Bard]

Most people here that dislike Dany don't think she's naive and inactive as you have suggested - rather they think she's bloodthirsty and arrogant. So there are at least three distinct ways she comes across. I think it's actually quite interesting that three such different versions of a character can exist at once.

I'm very uncomfortable about such generalizations of likes and dislikes, but since we're at it, I want to point that there is also a distinct chunk of the readership who finds her to be a boring goody two shoes mary-sue with plot armour.

Also, I don't see how one cannot be naive, inactive, bloodthirsty and arrogant at the same time. What do you think Vyserys was?

[ironmetal250]

I'm a big fan of the entire Dany plot being a red herring, Jon staying as Lord Commander of the Wall (he's already broken too many oaths, if he tries to become king or marry Dany and GRRM forgives him for that it's going way to far into perfect little marty stu territory), and Gendry learning of his heritage and claiming the throne.

I feel like Gendry has too much potential to be a very minor character in the upcoming books. At least, I hope he isn't.

Or it could just end with Jaime on the Iron Throne again, waiting to see who comes to claim it.

[FatCatOberyn]

Gendry learning of his heritage and claiming the throne.

I feel like Gendry has too much potential to be a very minor character in the upcoming books. At least, I hope he isn't.

Gendry has potential, and a man who knows of the hardships of common people would definitely be respected by the people. But there is the issue of him being a bastard, and not particularly useful to any of the nobles. The only way I can see him getting to the top is by leading a people's revolution or by being "adopted" by Stannis. Are we even sure that Gendry is the oldest of Robert's male bastards?

[ironmetal250]

Gendry has potential, and a man who knows of the hardships of common people would definitely be respected by the people. But there is the issue of him being a bastard, and not particularly useful to any of the nobles. The only way I can see him getting to the top is by leading a people's revolution or by being "adopted" by Stannis. Are we even sure that Gendry is the oldest of Robert's male bastards?

I'm pretty sure Edric was, but with the way Stannis and Mel treated Edric, I don't there's much hope for the Bull if he falls into Stannis's hands (but who knows, Gendry's worship of the Lord of Light might earn him some points with Mel).

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I'm pretty sure Edric was, but with the way Stannis and Mel treated Edric, I don't there's much hope for the Bull if he falls into Stannis's hands (but who knows, Gendry's worship of the Lord of Light might earn him some points with Mel).

Uhh... IIRC, Stannis was very conflicted about the idea of harming Edric from the start. And in the end he took Davos' advice and left him alone. I don't think Stannis would willingly kill any of Robert's bastards at this point.

[Alexia]

And in the end he took Davos' advice and left him alone.

Nope! In the end, Davos and his men realized that Edric's end was nigh and spirited him away under cover of darkness to safety. Afterwards, Davos informed Stannis that Edric was gone and that Davos himself had no idea where he had gone.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Nope! In the end, Davos and his men realized that Edric's end was nigh and spirited him away under cover of darkness to safety. Afterwards, Davos informed Stannis that Edric was gone and that Davos himself had no idea where he had gone.

Well then! Time to reread that I guess. :P I think at least Stannis was secretly glad he had gotten away... But maybe I just give him the benefit of the doubt more than I should.

[feardeathbywater]

All of which shows what a good Hand Davos is: he not only made sure Edric was safe, but also removed the pressure (and temptation) on Stannis. I think it's safe to assume that Stannis was grateful.

[Bronn Stone]

A big deal has been made of Targaryen polygamy and incestuous marriage. But they really haven't played much of a part in the tale to date. I expect they will. Polygamy in that Jon is legitimate. And incestuous marriage in that he'll marry Daenerys.

But since she is barren, they will have to find another to continue the line. With a shortage of other Targs, bastards or otherwise, they'll have to follow another line.

Much as the Wars of the Roses ended with all of the Yorkists and all of the Lancastrians dead and a bastard legitimized, I think these wars will end with same. Not sure if it ends up being Gendry or another, but he is my favorite.

I can tell you this - if I fell in battle defending GRRM from a wildling attack, my dying wish would be that he answer this question for me before I expired. But I wouldn't tell anyone.

[The Gallows Knight]

I am taking the long long long shot bet, Some descendant of Daemon Blackfyre or his brother Bittersteel. Legitimatized Targs all of them.

[Mr. Maester]

When it comes to royal couples, Aegon and Sansa make sense to me. I think they would be a very good royal couple. I don't see Sansa/Harry working out. The trick is avoiding Aegon being killed by Dany, which inevitably will happen if he opposes her.

If Dany lives, she will probably end the book as queen. But she can't have kids, and I think there's a good possibility she dies. I can't see Jon and Dany winding up together as King and Queen, for whatever reason.

Jon and Arianne is another possibility.

It's also possible that Dany could die and there could be three rules of Westeros (three dragons). Jon (son of Rhaegar), Aegon (a Blackfyre), and Tyrion (son of Aerys).

But given that Dany is barren and Jon will be undead, I think Aegon/Sansa is probably most likely.

[Stormland's Fury]

Some secret Targaryens.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

North, Vale, Riverlands, Iron Isles and Beyond the Wall-Jon and his queen consort Val

Dorne-Arianne

Stormlands, Crownlands, Reach and Westerlands-Shireen

Dany and Jon WON'T be.

Maybe Jaime Lannister. Or Gendry.

Yes Gendry and Jaime make much more sense... :bang:

[Stormland's Fury]

Yes Gendry and Jaime make much more sense... :bang:

Gendry as the king and Jaime as his queen.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Gendry as the king and Jaime as his queen.

Jaime will be Mrs Robinson and Gendry will be Ben Braddock.

[Winnief]

Well I think fAegon will be slain by Dany as he is the mummer's dragon.

Dany, will birth one healthy living child before the series end, (your guess is as good as mine regarding paternity,) but she won't survive the series.

I suppose Tyrion could be Regent and Guardian of Dany's child but realistically he is (fairly or unfairly) too widely unpopular to hold the position.

Depending on what state JOn's in when he's resurrected, I think we could get King Jon-he might have Dany as his Queen-it's possible.

Or King Jon and Queen Shireen.

But really, I'm thinking King Jon and Queen Sansa might be the most likely. I'm not saying it's the most ideal-but it would make an awful lot of sense politically and other eligible candidates will be in short supply, since Margaery and Arianne are likely doomed.

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

With Daenerys as Queen and Jon as King or Aegon the 6th of his name!

[Stormland's Fury]

With Daenerys as Queen and Jon as King or Aegon the 6th of his your name!