Mafia 75 -- Revolution in Vanillaville

[House Reed]

So if neither Bolton nor Fossoway is the MV, the MV has to be an FM. ANd if it was an FM, he probably tried to safe his own and his partner's ass:

I still don't get why the FM do have a powerful role, but we don't have. Makes no sense balancewise.

Can't be, we'd have lost already. Assuming there are two FM anyway. We're at 3 votes to go to night. Unless the mystery vote isn't usable every day--which would make more sense if the power belongs to an FM. But then we've lost today even if we lynch the FM if we fail to lynch the one that's the mystery voter. UNLESS it's a one-time use thing. Then it'd be bold to use the power so soon, but not necessarily unwise. :(

COULD the mystery voter have been Estermont, and he was just keeping his mouth shut about it? Honestly, I'd sooner believe that than the FMs having the mystery vote. I don't see how THREE mods would've cleared that idea.

[House Dalt]

There are other ways they could limit the role, I guess. Like specify that you couldn't place the mystery vote on someone you'd already voted for, for instance.

[House Pommingham]

In fact, let me clear something up. I was the one who held up the night. I was a 2-shot guard, and I put in a provisional on Tarth before I went to bed, not realising that I needed to confirm it once the night had started (not used to that particular enforcement of provisional rules).

My decision to use a guard shot was as follows:

1) Wow, look at all these tiers! I'm right at the bottom of them all...makes me a good lynch target I guess. Wouldn't want these to go to waste.

2) That poison reveal implies a different mechanic to the usual kill. Maybe we're looking at two independent killers? Might be worth a pop. (Note it was explicitly stated on my role PM that if there was a joint action by two players, guarding one of them would have no effect).

There was a subsequent mod clarification that I read just now that makes a poisoner unlikely - wish I'd had a chance to read that as I'd have retracted my guard usage!

Anyway, the role inversion turned my remaining Guard shot into a Healer-maker. I can give one other player the ability to heal someone else during the night, provided I make the decision before the lynch. I suppose it makes sense - Guard blocks an action, whereas this now adds another one. Not the most exact role inversion though...

EDIT: at least, I think it was me...

Ehm, it's not very smart to use the gard action at all, but to use it on me is :bang: :bang: :bang:

[House Reed]

In fact, let me clear something up. I was the one who held up the night. I was a 2-shot guard, and I put in a provisional on Tarth before I went to bed, not realising that I needed to confirm it once the night had started (not used to that particular enforcement of provisional rules).

Two unconfirmed provisionals (you and Bolton) would've done it. (I realize now that I counted Day's end incorrectly with the mod's scene instead of with the final vote to lynch, so that probably means we actually ran the full eight hours rather than 7.5 like I'd counted.)

I don't know what to make about this claim. A part of me thinks an FM-guard is plenty feasible. On the other hand, his inverted power is something we can prove before we lynch (or I assume whoever gets the healer power would know), so that'd be a silly power for an FM to choose. Unless the FMs are in a position where FM!Fossoway can "give" the healer power to his partner to back up the claim.

[House Pommingham]

Can't be, we'd have lost already. Assuming there are two FM anyway. We're at 3 votes to go to night. Unless the mystery vote isn't usable every day--which would make more sense if the power belongs to an FM. But then we've lost today even if we lynch the FM if we fail to lynch the one that's the mystery voter. UNLESS it's a one-time use thing. Then it'd be bold to use the power so soon, but not necessarily unwise. :(

COULD the mystery voter have been Estermont, and he was just keeping his mouth shut about it? Honestly, I'd sooner believe that than the FMs having the mystery vote. I don't see how THREE mods would've cleared that idea.

I guess it's a one-time action only. If it was Estermont I hope he comes back as a zombie so I can shoot him.

Btw, I'd like to have a mod clarification that I am not the only real player. <_<

Edit: emphasis

[House Reed]

Ehm, it's not very smart to use the gard action at all, but to use it on me is :bang: :bang: :bang:

Contrary to your opinion, you're not actually the shiz, Tarth.

I guess it's a one-time action only. If it was Estermont I hope he comes back as a zombie so I can shoot him.

Btw, I'd like to have a mod clarification that I am not the only real player. <_<

If it's an FM's, then one-time use is the ONLY rationale that I can accept them having such a power. Still seems really reckless for an FM to use a mystery vote when if they waited a day longer, they could've won themselves the game. Maybe they had to use the power before they reached any end-game situation, and thus had to use it up then? I guess it's not that important. It's obvious they don't have the vote today, and I think we can all trust our mods enough that it's probably not an every-other-day power that they can use again tomorrow.

[House Pommingham]

Fossoway, you posted during the night so if you didn't change your provisional at this point the mods should have ended the night immediatly afterwards.

[House Pommingham]

I'm off. :leaving:

[House Dalt]

Two unconfirmed provisionals (you and Bolton) would've done it. (I realize now that I counted Day's end incorrectly with the mod's scene instead of with the final vote to lynch, so that probably means we actually ran the full eight hours rather than 7.5 like I'd counted.)

I don't know what to make about this claim. A part of me thinks an FM-guard is plenty feasible. On the other hand, his inverted power is something we can prove before we lynch (or I assume whoever gets the healer power would know), so that'd be a silly power for an FM to choose. Unless the FMs are in a position where FM!Fossoway can "give" the healer power to his partner to back up the claim.

Targ's PM on the subject informs me that whoever I give this power to will know immediately. But are you really suggesting that if someone was given a one-shot heal they should reveal that fact for all the world to see? That would be terrible play. No, whoever I give this to should not come forward until they've used up the heal.

As you say, if there are paired FMs in this game and I'm one of them, then this reveal is a very convenient lie. I think I'll live with the trade off, because the information benefits the innocents here. And if it makes you feel any better, in a game designed with this sort of reversal in mind, would you give the FM a guard, knowing that it's going to be changed into something that's not particularly useful for them (a heal that can't even be used by the player that has the power)?

[House Dalt]

On the subject of the mystery voter: the way that the vote was cast last night made it almost inevitable that Connington was going to be lynched. I'd already said I wouldn't be back, so that vote was going to stay. The MV wasn't going to move, so that meant two votes permanantly there. That meant only 3 people needed to go for Connington, whereas 5 out of the 6 remaining players would have had to agree to lynch someone else (and presumably one of them was the Mystery Voter, so probably wouldn't have wanted to go along with it).

That implies that whoever the MV was, he not only thought Connington had to die, but opportunistically made it so. To me, that's not something an innocent player would do. So I think the Mystery Voter must be scum. Perhaps it was a one shot (for balance's sake, I hope that was the case), but they've used it expertly to force the result of a lynch in their favour.

[House Reed]

Targ's PM on the subject informs me that whoever I give this power to will know immediately. But are you really suggesting that if someone was given a one-shot heal they should reveal that fact for all the world to see? That would be terrible play. No, whoever I give this to should not come forward until they've used up the heal.

As you say, if there are paired FMs in this game and I'm one of them, then this reveal is a very convenient lie. I think I'll live with the trade off, because the information benefits the innocents here. And if it makes you feel any better, in a game designed with this sort of reversal in mind, would you give the FM a guard, knowing that it's going to be changed into something that's not particularly useful for them (a heal that can't even be used by the player that has the power)?

Normally I'd agree that the would-be healer should keep their mouth shut, but you're still chilling at the top of a lot of people's tiers. For now, our goal should be to avoid endgame today. If we lynch incorrectly, it's game over, and I think avoiding that is more important than having a healer ace up our sleeve. Bolton's already mentioned that the common denominator in most tiers are you and Ashford up top, so I think it's likely either you or Ashford up for a lynch today, and if you're innocent, it's worth outing a healer to avoid losing the game. Because that's kinda important.

I wouldn't give the FMs such a power (though I don't think it'd be unbalanced, actually--I just don't think it'd be very fun for the FMs to have after the reversal, and a lot of this game seems to be in the name of fun). That's why I'd like to make sure you're not fake-claiming. That we can do just that is fantastic imo.

[House Dalt]

Normally I'd agree that the would-be healer should keep their mouth shut, but you're still chilling at the top of a lot of people's tiers. For now, our goal should be to avoid endgame today. If we lynch incorrectly, it's game over, and I think avoiding that is more important than having a healer ace up our sleeve. Bolton's already mentioned that the common denominator in most tiers are you and Ashford up top, so I think it's likely either you or Ashford up for a lynch today, and if you're innocent, it's worth outing a healer to avoid losing the game. Because that's kinda important.

I wouldn't give the FMs such a power (though I don't think it'd be unbalanced, actually--I just don't think it'd be very fun for the FMs to have after the reversal, and a lot of this game seems to be in the name of fun). That's why I'd like to make sure you're not fake-claiming. That we can do just that is fantastic imo.

Tiers should be mutable things, especially when they are given so early in the day. Why do you assume that they'll stay the way they are? It's not like we're short on time, nor are there particularly strong cases on anyone, even myself and Ashford. This is not a foregone conclusion. Thinking about it that way is not a good, and dare I say it even kind of suspicious.

[House Dalt]

Also Bolton, what are you playing at? You're now saying poison thing was entirely irrelevant, and coming up with this ridiculous stuff about Vampires too. I can't believe a mod would be irresponsible enough to make a joke that was unobvious enough that you would parrot it on thread like that, even in a game with demonstrably crazy mods like this. You must have known that this was in jest, and yet you reported it to the thread as though we should take it seriously. I don't see what you would stand to gain in doing that apart from screwing with our heads, and I don't see why an innocent player would want to do that. The only reason I can think of is some strange desire for self-preservation, but that's completely at odds with your post about having superpowers during the night, which is the opposite of self-preservation.

Any attempt to parse this as the actions of an inno just fails. I just can't see why you would have done this if you were on our team.

[House Dayne]

OMGUS, Payne.

You are evil. You are evil evil evil. Everyone knows that you can't spell the word "evil" without a P. Or can you? I don't know. I don't know my alphabet.

Is brain a letter of the alphabet?

[House Ashford]

I have survived the attack, barely. Need to catch up.

[House Clegane]

Uh-oh.

My arm just fell off.

[House Dalt]

*sigh* I'm about to disappear for about ~15 hours. Damn it, I wish I had more time. Still, there should be a reasonable amount of time remaining when I get back. If it didn't look like it was potentially dangerous, I'd have put a vote on Bolton already, but as it is I reckon I'd better leave it off for safety.

[House Reed]

Tiers should be mutable things, especially when they are given so early in the day. Why do you assume that they'll stay the way they are? It's not like we're short on time, nor are there particularly strong cases on anyone, even myself and Ashford. This is not a foregone conclusion. Thinking about it that way is not a good, and dare I say it even kind of suspicious.

My tiers aren't likely to see much in the way of upwards movement. I don't really anticipate Bolton or Frey claiming FM or anything, and my opinion of Tarth has been changing a lot today actually. I feel better and better about him! For me, it really is down to you and Ashford.

In any case, the day's nearly half over, so I wouldn't call it early in the day at this point, especially since we've all got to sleep in our time remaining (unless you don't--in which case, hey, more power to you). As you say, we're not short on time, but there's no reason to expect people to pull any 180's anymore. We've already done rereads, and we've already made cases. Everyone's checked in. The information is all at hand. I think we're at the point in the game where we're supposed to discuss, analyze, and compromise over our ideal lynch. At this point, I don't think opinions will change so much as concessions will be made.

EDIT: Actually, I think my math's WAY off and it's earlier in the day than I thought. Jesus I wish I was EST.

EDIT2: Point remains though.

You're now saying poison thing was entirely irrelevant, and coming up with this ridiculous stuff about Vampires too.

Considering that we've got zombies hanging out with us, I'd say vampires aren't too ridiculous. Unless he sparkles. Because that's ridiculous.

[House Targaryen]

First off, apparently multiple people have missed this rule:

Please also avoid discussing the timing of your PMs if you are a roled player. That is, while you may post on the thread during the night to say you have sent in your PM, please do not post to tell people that have sent in your PM at a certain time, you have not yet sent in a PM, or that you plan to wait a certain length of time before doing so.

Please stop metagaming the end of night--at least in the thread.

The fifty gold avatar and alt prize has been purchased. It is no longer for sale.

It is day square.

6 players remain: "Brown" Tarth, "Indigo" Frey, "Orange" Fossoway, "Red" Ashford, "Violet" Baby Jesus, "Yellow" Bolton.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or 3 to go to night.

1 vote for Dayne ( Payne)

1 vote for Payne ( Dayne)

6 players have not voted: "Brown" Tarth, "Indigo" Frey, "Orange" Fossoway, "Red" Ashford, "Violet" Baby Jesus, "Yellow" Bolton.

[House Reed]

Hey Targ, can we get an updated countdown in your sig? I obviously can't do the math from the timestamps myself, and I don't care to embarrass myself again trying. :blushing:

It is day 3.

6 players remain: "Brown" Tarth, "Indigo" Frey, "Orange" Fossoway, "Red" Ashford, "Violet" Baby Jesus, "Yellow" Bolton.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or 3 to go to night.

1 vote for Dayne ( Payne)

1 vote for Payne ( Dayne)

6 players have not voted: "Brown" Tarth, "Indigo" Frey, "Orange" Fossoway, "Red" Ashford, "Violet" Baby Jesus, "Yellow" Bolton.

So we're still basically at six players. Dayne and Payne are casting non-votes on each other, and Clegane isn't even acknowledged. I'm going to go ahead and assume none of the zombies are going to put their votes on an actual player, so we can probably disregard them.

Anyway I need to sleep. Ta.