Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 But I don't think warging is one of these gifts.Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miang Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 In the real world claymores, zweihanders and greatswords were mostly used to hold tight locations like corridors. They weren't carried onto the open field because of both their weight and the unweildy nature of their size. Practical field weapons were generally not larger than a bastard or hand-and-a-half sword. Of course, Westeros is not the real world so some of those rules go out the window but I still think Ice was mostly used ceremonially - a display of Stark wealth and power - rather than practically. I just don't really think Ned commonly carried her into war. I could be wrong but that's just my opinion. Greatswords look cool but in the long run a standard sized weapon is far more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j52y Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The idea of Howland helping Ned kill Arthur Dayne dishonorably fails in one catagory: Ned would resent Howland for it for the rest of his life. Even if he understood why Howland did it, he would still hold it against him. But according to Bran, Ned calls Howland one of his best friends. Ned's regret on the Tower of Joy was how many good men died, not necessarily how he killed one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Why not?I don't really have a good reason, I simply don't. IMO Howland Reed is NOT a warg. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 In a retraction of my previous statement: Imagine this, Ned and Co. show up at the tower, are faced down by Dayne and company, and the battle ensues.There is a scuffle, then Ned and 3 or 4 others team up on Dayne (as he is the only defender left). Dayne kills two of his attackers, one or more of which die trying to help Ned (as he is no match for Dayne, and now it is Reed and Ned vs Dayne.Now; Dayne makes a move towards Reed (who is likely fighting with a spear), and gets close enough to strike freely. Ned has a chance to defend Reed, but decides to allow Dayne to strike (wounding Reed in a disfiguring manner), and stabs Dayne in the back while his is cutting into Reed. (The point here is that this is incredibly dishonorable)Ned rushes into the tower and finds the Dragon Prince and his sister standing over their child arguing. Rheagar is telling her that he doesn't love her in order to get her to take the child and go for saftey. He says hurtful things: I hate you, I was just using you, he throws a rock at her and shouts YOU'RE UGLY! (By this point the rebels have all but won the war).Ned sees everything, thinks that Rheagar raped and used his sister, and attacks in a blind rage... Rheagar stumbles backwards and tries to defend himself with whatever is at hand, but Ned corners him and moves to kill him. Lyanna screams "NO!", "DON'T HURT HIM!", and the like. But Ned makes the downward strike anyway.Lyanna jumps forward, but Ned is committed to the swing and deals a mortal blow...Rheagar screams in horror and holds her as she dies (Ned stands there in shock) and she whispers how much she loves him. She then tells Ned to take the child...Rheagar, (who is unarmed) looks at Ned and says "What have you done!" Ned realizes that Lyanna and Rheagar loved each other and tells him "run".Rheagar flees (to be slain by Robert) after swearing vengeance, and Ned takes the child and, with Reed, leaves the tower in horrid victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OTHER other Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 A few thoughts on Howland Reed: Re: him not showing up among the Stark bannermen--I think it more likely he definitely DID show up, he is doing his job, which is guarding the neck, all the bogs and swamps there are HIS battleground. I don't recall Ned saying anything but complimentary things about Reed. And the ironmen are getting very much bled by the Crannogmen, and others who are hoping to usurp the north (i.e. the Freys and Boltons) may feel the sameRe: Howland's own fighting ability--wasn't he the little Crannogman who won the huge Harrenhall tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monday Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Re: Howland's own fighting ability--wasn't he the little Crannogman who won the huge Harrenhall tournament? Many people would argue that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was Lyanna Stark sticking up for Howland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Many people would argue that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was Lyanna Stark sticking up for Howland.of course tKotLT was lyanna :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 IMO Howland Reed is NOT a warg.So how come Meera and Jojen know so much about warging? Neither of them is a warg. Yet they can instruct Bran in warging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I wanna know what's up with the Green Men, I mean, the Isle of Faces isn't in the middle of no-where, it's a densely populated region of Westeros, but no one ever talks about the fact there's an island full of Malfurion Stormrages right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monday Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I wanna know what's up with the Green Men, I mean, the Isle of Faces isn't in the middle of no-where, it's a densely populated region of Westeros, but no one ever talks about the fact there's an island full of Malfurion Stormrages right there.I've wondered about that myself. There is this topic, but I've never heard any especially enlightening ideas as to why everyone just ignores the isle. Anyone have any insightful or even crackpot theories they'd like to share with the class?Edit: Content fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 So how come Meera and Jojen know so much about warging? Neither of them is a warg. Yet they can instruct Bran in warging.Simply because the crannogmen remember more of the ancient times when the children of the forest still lived all over Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 So how come Meera and Jojen know so much about warging? Neither of them is a warg. Yet they can instruct Bran in warging.Pod and Egg knew almost every sigil in Westeros, doesn't mean they have a relative in each of these groups just means they did their research. Also you keep bringing up that Howland must of warged because he's not a good fighter. But where do we have any evidence for this? Plus he's just spent the entire war fighting at Ned's side i'd assume he must have some skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youper Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I don't think Howland lost his mind at the TOJ, but he might have been injured enough to not be mobile. He has never visited Ned since the TOJ. Maester Luwin comments on this when the Reeds visit in ACoK. Perhaps he was injured (lost leg?). Yes the Reeds will be defending the Neck, but Howland did go to war during the Rebellion. So it is not as if he has never been to war. So why didn't he come? Perhaps he has no able aide to lead the fight Greywater, or maybe there is another reason...In fact he would have been a valuable Lord for Robb. He has fought in a war over the same ground. He would know the Riverlands. Howland Reed was closer to Ned then any of the other Lords. His advice would have been invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Kilimaro Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 In a retraction of my previous statement: Imagine this, Ned and Co. show up at the tower, are faced down by Dayne and company, and the battle ensues.The problem with your potential version of events is that Rhaegar is dead by the time the Tower of Joy fight happens. In Ned's remembrance of the battle in AGOT, he recalls telling the Kingsguard that he looked for them at the Trident and at Storm's End. Rhaegar, of course, died on the Trident.Speaking of Ned's recollection of this, he also remembers Howland Reed taking Lyanna's hand from his after she died. So, I don't think he was disabled at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Pod and Egg knew almost every sigil in Westeros, doesn't mean they have a relative in each of these groups just means they did their research.Huh? These things are public knowledge that every nobleman is supposed to learn.You seem to imply (if I understand you) that knowledge about warging is common knowledge in the Neck. I count that as a point in favour of Howland being a Warg. (But I don’t think it’s common knowledge anywhere, neither in the Neck nor north of the Wall. Meera and Jojen know because their father told them. Because he’s a warg.) Also you keep bringing up that Howland must of warged because he's not a good fighter. But where do we have any evidence for this? Post #13. Explicit example of him getting his ass kicked by 3 teenagers, who were subsequently scattered by a girl.Plus he's just spent the entire war fighting at Ned's side i'd assume he must have some skill.Varamyr Sixskins is fighting at Mance’s side. He sure has “some skill.” Doesn’t make him a fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I don't think Howland lost his mind at the TOJ, but he might have been injured enough to not be mobile. He has never visited Ned since the TOJ. Maester Luwin comments on this when the Reeds visit in ACoK. Perhaps he was injured (lost leg?). Yes the Reeds will be defending the Neck, but Howland did go to war during the Rebellion. So it is not as if he has never been to war. So why didn't he come? Perhaps he has no able aide to lead the fight Greywater, or maybe there is another reason...In fact he would have been a valuable Lord for Robb. He has fought in a war over the same ground. He would know the Riverlands. Howland Reed was closer to Ned then any of the other Lords. His advice would have been invaluable.Cranogmen don't make the best front line warriors. I'd always just assumed it was just his friendship with Ned that caused him to fight in the rebellion. Also i think if Howland was in a vegetable state there would have been some mention of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Speaking of Ned's recollection of this, he also remembers Howland Reed taking Lyanna's hand from his after she died. I assume this is true, but do we have that textual evidence? Doesn’t it just say “they”?Note that the – perhaps hyperbolically named – Howard is a vegetable-theory allows for less serious mental defects than being a slobbering zombie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Post #13. Explicit example of him getting his ass kicked by 3 teenagers, who were subsequently scattered by a girl.It just says squires. Not all squires are teenagers. Some men couldn't afford a knighthood and so stayed squires for a long time. Also Dunk was a squire and he was huge. He beat up the Prince (can't remember his name) This doesn't imply a lack of skill on the princes part. And these squires are hardly likely to attack the Daughter of one of the great lords, it's not like she ran in and duelled them all.Varamyr Sixskins is fighting at Mance’s side. He sure has “some skill.” Doesn’t make him a fighter.I would have thought that if Howland warged his way through the rebellion then his warging might have been a well known fact and at least mentioned someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youper Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Cranogmen don't make the best front line warriors. I'd always just assumed it was just his friendship with Ned that caused him to fight in the rebellion. Also i think if Howland was in a vegetable state there would have been some mention of it. I didn't say he was in a vegetable state. I said he might have been crippled. And wouldn't his friendship with Ned mean that he would join his son who was trying to free Ned? If his friendship with Ned was what got him involved in the Rebellion. Then he should have been strongly motivated to join with Rob. Unless he wasn't able to for some reason....If his friendship with Ned was so strong don't you think he would have come to visit Winterfall sometime in the past 14 years. Unless he wasn't able to for some reason....Now maybe there is another reason for all of this, but he might have been injured at the TOJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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