[BOOK SPOILERS] What would you like for the TV show to change?

[HashRouge]

These are horrible, horrible ideas and I'm hoping this is a joke post.

Why would it be a joke? I highly doubt the poster is actually involved in choosing what goes into the TV series, so leave them to their opinion. Anyway, I happen to agree about some of their points.

This is just wishful thinking, but I really wanted Robb to do away with Joffrey :smoking:

[The Mountain That Glides]

Why do people think Dorne and Iron Islands will be cut? They've put a lot of focus on Theon, and what the Iron Islands do, does affect everything else. Dorne is important to the endgame as well obviously. I don't think we need the whole Arys-seduced-by-Arianne-to-install-Myrcella subplot, but there should still be some Arianne-wants-Doran-to-do-something subplot. Once Oberyn is killed, Dorne is officially involved. They have to be shown. Neither of these will be cut, although they will likely be condensed a bit.

Note that I heavily dislike Iron Islands and could care less for Dorne. I'm just using this thing called logic.

[Cold Pies]

I'm hoping the producers double down and allow for two season prequel

Starting with the tourney at Harrenhall

Ending with ned preying in front of a tree holding two baby boys

That would save the need for flashbacks or stupid scenes where everything is explained,I agree they needed for first few episodes, but if veiwers don't get by now they won't ever

Doing this would also seperate the series them from the books while remaining true to it

ASoIaF is for readers so the author can tell the story the Baratheon uprising through POV memories at the same time as the war of the five kings and take 15000 pages if needed

"Game of Thrones" is a TV show for TV watchers and the story needs to be done in 60 hours, if they can't tell both in full, tell the main story and save the rest for the prequel

I also want the parentage of a certain character not to be revealed until the final episode of the prequel series, make them wait too.

[Spidey]

The whole plot that Chett came up with in the prologue of ASOS could also be cut.

Wouldn't surprise me if they tell that prologue from Sam's PoV. That way they won't have to do it as a flashback later.

[JagLover]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to have only season for the two books. Surely you can reduce Brienne's wanderings, and some of the Iron Islands (but not the Kingsmoot), but there's only so much you can cut for the story to have any sense.

Some of it you can reduce, but you can't remove Aegon from it, otherwise everything Varys ever did makes no sense. Real Aegon or not, his character is a game changer.

As for Quentyn, you need him, but not any of his travelings, just have him show up in Mereen with the marriage contract and die trying to release the dragons.

I think they are going to have to, if they are going to reach the end. How many series, that offer a continuous narrative like GOT, reach further than 6-7 seasons.

The basic fact is that you can't cut anything essential from the next two books, so they will require two full seasons, and following ADWD is at least 2 seasons worth of story. The blunt truth is that AFFC and ADWD combined only have a book's worth of character development for the original cast and plot development, so one season is all the time that can be spent on them.

If you focus on the characters we have come to know in season 1, and plot developments clearly linked to the main plot, then you can easily get it down to one season.

In terms of ADWD

I agree on Quentyn, but Vary's could be as motivated by a loyalty to Dany only and whether Aegon is a fake or not he can be excised ENTIRELY from the storyline and leave little trace of his leaving.

[JagLover]

Why do people think Dorne and Iron Islands will be cut? They've put a lot of focus on Theon, and what the Iron Islands do, does affect everything else. Dorne is important to the endgame as well obviously. I don't think we need the whole Arys-seduced-by-Arianne-to-install-Myrcella subplot, but there should still be some Arianne-wants-Doran-to-do-something subplot. Once Oberyn is killed, Dorne is officially involved. They have to be shown. Neither of these will be cut, although they will likely be condensed a bit.

Note that I heavily dislike Iron Islands and could care less for Dorne. I'm just using this thing called logic.

The motivation of why the Dornish might help Dany has been established as far back as book 1, and will be further shown in the TV show in Season 3 with the battle between the Viper and the mountain. They could simply show up in Season 5/6 if and when Dany lands in Westeros and offer them their support in vengeance for their dead princess and nothing further (no innumerable scenes set in Dorne) would be necessary to establish why they are there.

Theon is important becuase he takes Winterfell, the rest of the iron islands storyline is not to date, other characters speaking of their raids could comfortable cover 80% of their chapters.

[The Lost Lord]

Why do people think Dorne and Iron Islands will be cut? They've put a lot of focus on Theon, and what the Iron Islands do, does affect everything else. Dorne is important to the endgame as well obviously... Neither of these will be cut, although they will likely be condensed a bit.

Yes. GRRM spent time on Dorne and the Iron Islands in AFFC because they are important to the larger plot. Euron and Victarion have big plans for Dany. Dorne will make a big move in TWOW. Of course there can be substantial cuts but talk of eliminating the characters entirely is just nonsense.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to have only season for the two books. Surely you can reduce Brienne's wanderings, and some of the Iron Islands (but not the Kingsmoot), but there's only so much you can cut for the story to have any sense.

You are correct that doing it in 10 episodes is impossible. But it makes no sense whatsoever to do a 10 episode season covering the first half of the combined AFFC/ADWD (worst season ever?) and another 10 episode season covering the second half. This is why Martin ended up splitting the books by geography, because there is no satisfying midpoint to anyone's arc.

AFFC cannot sustain 10 episodes on its own but it could fit into 6 with no major plot cuts, just condensation, and it would actually be a darn good watch. ADWD could work in a very busy 7.5 episodes, though it would fit more comfortably in 8-10.

With this in mind, I think a 13.5 episode combined AFFC/ADWD season might work from a storytelling perspective. (I know, I know, they said they can only do 10, but that can change if the story demands it, and the Wire had a season 4 of this length when they needed it despite horrible ratings.)

The biggest problem with combining them is handling the plethora of scenes and settings and the enormous cast. I see three possibilities for this: (1) Do AFFC as a standalone 6 episode season and wait till next year for a full 10 episode ADWD -- this would be my preference from a storytelling perspective but there are logistical problems with retaining cast members absent from AFFC, or (2) Do the 13.5 episode season, cover AFFC in the first 6 episodes, do ADWD in the back 7.5, (3) Just mix it all together and cross your fingers, like GRRM originally intended to do.

[JagLover]

Yes. GRRM spent time on Dorne and the Iron Islands in AFFC because they are important to the larger plot. Euron and Victarion have big plans for Dany. Dorne will make a big move in TWOW. Of course there can be substantial cuts but talk of eliminating the characters entirely is just nonsense.

Just as in the Lord of The Rings film they included Tom Bombadil,the scouring of the shire, the arrival of the men of Lebennin and Lamedon at Plennor Fields, etc, etc.

They are telling their own story in a different medium and I would be very suprised if they include all of the characters and plotlines introduced in AFFC and ADWD

As another posted pointed out they may have only 60 hours to tell the who story, ten have already gone and at least twenty will be needed for ACOC & ASOS and how many are still needed after ADWD?

[Hear Me Roar!]

Why would it be a joke? I highly doubt the poster is actually involved in choosing what goes into the TV series, so leave them to their opinion. Anyway, I happen to agree about some of their points.

This is just wishful thinking, but I really wanted Robb to do away with Joffrey :smoking:

That's a stupid change, too. You really advocate changing the entire story for TV? Whaaaat?

Getting rid of Thoros and the Lord of Light's magical powers is one thing; I wouldn't like it, and it'd be getting rid of an awesome plot point. But making Daenerys invade Westeros, thus cutting, oh, four books worth of Daenerys material is absolute lunacy. I thought people valued Martin's works on these forums? I didn't know they wanted them butchered for the sake of TV audiences.

I guess I know better now. People want Daenerys to invade Westeros in Season 2, Robb to cut off Joffrey's head and take over the Iron Throne, magic to be eliminated from the fantasy series (key word, here: fantasy), and I'm guessing they also want Space Marines to land and occupy King's Landing.

When I saw this thread, I had things in mind like ... not having Tyrion's nose get cut off. Not changes that would dramatically alter the course of the entire plot that George Martin laid out.

[The Mountain That Glides]

I just thought of something. What with Aiden Gillen being in credited as starring, and him leaving for the last two thirds of the season, (I expect a Littlefinger-Loras-Margaery scene or two, but still) I wonder if they'll reveal early that Dontos is really Littlefinger's man? It would be very easy since they aren't restricted to POV structure. It would reduce the impact later, but they need to keep Littlefinger relevant somehow.

I'm not necessarily FOR this change, but I think it's a change I could see them making.

[GoodGuyA]

When I saw this thread, I had things in mind like ... not having Tyrion's nose get cut off.

I still think his nose should be cut off... My apologies to Peter Dinklage in advance.

[The Lost Lord]

I wonder if they'll reveal early that Dontos is really Littlefinger's man? It would be very easy since they aren't restricted to POV structure. It would reduce the impact later, but they need to keep Littlefinger relevant somehow. I'm not necessarily FOR this change, but I think it's a change I could see them making.

This would totally ruin one of my favorite shockers. I think LF will be relevant enough -- he'll be in all the Small Council scenes and he'll get some fun scenes with Tyrion. Then he'll disappear for a bit and make a grand re-entrance later. As we add characters and plotlines, it'll be natural for main cast members to miss a few episodes. I mean, Jaime appeared for less than 10 minutes in the whole second half of Season 1.

[Arrogant Bastard]

This would totally ruin one of my favorite shockers. I think LF will be relevant enough -- he'll be in all the Small Council scenes and he'll get some fun scenes with Tyrion. Then he'll disappear for a bit and make a grand re-entrance later. As we add characters and plotlines, it'll be natural for main cast members to miss a few episodes. I mean, Jaime appeared for less than 10 minutes in the whole second half of Season 1.

Yeah, I hope they don't do that. I wasn't a big fan of how in ROTK teh audience already knew Gollum was going to betray Frodo and Sam. It can still be hinted that Dontos is Littlefinger's man like in the book, where in Tyrion's chapter we learn that LF was the one who knew the Tyrells were planning to marry Sansa to Wilias. I didn't get it the first read, but it's obvious on a reread that Dontos told LF about the plan after learning it from Sansa. I wonder if they will add LF scenes at Highgarden with Mace and Loras; I hope not, that would also somewhat ruin a surprise and it really isn't necessary. I'm hoping this season LF takes a backseat to Varys, who has a bigger role in ACOK, sort of like with LF and Ned in season one it should be Varys and Tyrion in season 2, with LF more on the side.

[The Mountain That Glides]

This would totally ruin one of my favorite shockers. I think LF will be relevant enough -- he'll be in all the Small Council scenes and he'll get some fun scenes with Tyrion. Then he'll disappear for a bit and make a grand re-entrance later. As we add characters and plotlines, it'll be natural for main cast members to miss a few episodes. I mean, Jaime appeared for less than 10 minutes in the whole second half of Season 1.

I agree with you, in theory. I think it should remain a mystery and that it would be better for Littlefinger to disappear for awhile then return with reinforcements (However, I am convinced we will see his negotiating. Marg seems to be a series regular, as is Littlefinger, so Marg will likely be played up).

But looking at it from a writer/producer/ect's point of view, people already are struggling to remember who Littlefinger is, atleast from what I've seen from my friends and people on other forums. Keeping him in mind as "Oh yeah, he's working for that one dude, Littlepenis or whatever his name is. I remember last season he was acting kinda creepy towards Sansa. Okay." will help new viewers.

As I said, I HOPE they don't do it. But I could see it happening.

I am still pro-killing off Pycelle as early as possible, though. He literally does nothing in Storm/Feast except blame Marg for the moon tea, and that can easily be Qyburn instead.

[The Lost Lord]

(However, I am convinced we will see his negotiating. Marg seems to be a series regular, as is Littlefinger, so Marg will likely be played up).

Well they'll weigh that against the potential dramatic impact. I love how in ACOK Tyrion is practically freaking out, "Where the hell is Littlefinger???" and keeps thinking LF might have betrayed them, and how that really adds to the uncertainty of the outcome on the Blackwater. They definitely can't show the conclusion of the LF-Tyrell negotiations without ruining that, and I'm skeptical about how much they can show without giving it away that the Tyrells will be the cavalry. Perhaps they will portray it in a way that keeps LF's motivations ambiguous to the audience as well. "Are you here to represent the Lannisters?" "That's what they think, but I'm here to represent myself," or some such.

By my estimate Renly should die at the end of episode 5, so Marg will at least be in the first five eps, react in episode 6, and then triumphantly arrive at King's Landing in Ep 10 (I know this is in ASOS but they'll certainly move it up). Is that enough airtime for a main cast member, or does she need 1-2 more scenes negotiating with LF somewhere in eps 7-9? It's a tough call. But they have a ton of main cast members in 7-8 different locales even before the added material for Renly/Tyrells, Robb, Jaime, Ros, and whoever else, so space will be precious.

[benadgatemusic]

I think they should speed a few things up in the Season 2 premiere. For example, I think when we catch up with Theon, it will be in his first POV chapter. With Catelyn, we'd catch up with her when she arrives at Renly's tourney. Her first POV chapter is not at all important, and the scene with Robb sending the terms of peace can be done by itself without Catelyn or Theon because that's the nature of film (as opposed to GRRM's more limited POV written word medium).

[Wembeley]

Aging up the kids; which, thankfully, they have already done.

I'd also like for Arya and Brienne's travels to be cut significantly.

Yes please! These were dragged out way too long, reading them I would sometimes skip to a different chapter like Jon or someone and come back to these later. Same with Davos in the beginning. Just get to Stannis at the wall already.

[Wembeley]

I still think his nose should be cut off... My apologies to Peter Dinklage in advance.

Nah, as with Dany and her hair not burning off, I don't think we need his nose cut off, I thought a nice scar would have been enough in the books and I really hated that he did that in the book. He can have a scar on his face and that's good enough for me. I think the logistics of shooting it would be pretty hard, just look at the Hound, they pretty much cover most of his scarring with a clump of hair and that's good enough for me.

[mr. peasant]

That's a stupid change, too. You really advocate changing the entire story for TV? Whaaaat?

Getting rid of Thoros and the Lord of Light's magical powers is one thing; I wouldn't like it, and it'd be getting rid of an awesome plot point. But making Daenerys invade Westeros, thus cutting, oh, four books worth of Daenerys material is absolute lunacy. I thought people valued Martin's works on these forums? I didn't know they wanted them butchered for the sake of TV audiences.

I guess I know better now. People want Daenerys to invade Westeros in Season 2, Robb to cut off Joffrey's head and take over the Iron Throne, magic to be eliminated from the fantasy series (key word, here: fantasy), and I'm guessing they also want Space Marines to land and occupy King's Landing.

When I saw this thread, I had things in mind like ... not having Tyrion's nose get cut off. Not changes that would dramatically alter the course of the entire plot that George Martin laid out.

Honestly? Not cool on the hissy fit or the straw man argument.

A lot of the big changes being advocated here are based on the difference in the balance of power between audience and creators in TV compared to books (it is easier for TV audiences to abandon a show than readers to abandon a novel) as well as the limitations in resources and logistics that television has to contend with, which novelists don't. Therefore, saying that our opinions are wrong without offering counterpoints (be it solutions to the 'problems' or why the assumptions are wrong/flawed) is somewhat pointless, immature and close-minded; not unlike who closes his eyes and plugs his ears while screaming whenever someone disagrees with him.

I got to disagree with you, the reason this show has become a worldwide phenomenon and they are countless new fans of the books thanks to it is because the show doesn't fully hold to normal TV conventions on how thongs should play out. If it were to conform itself and change to be like all that other crap on TV whats the point. This Series has reached so many people cus it's different from what they expect and because it stayed as true as it could to the book. I say they need to keep that up thats what makes this whole universe from the books to the TV of ASOIAF great.

And about the low magic thing, The first book really had nothing magical in it to begin with except the appearance of the Others and the dragons, which were shown in the show. If your counting Brans dreams as magical then ya they skimped on that.

I don't think the show's fidelity to the book had much to do with its appeal to the general audience. The majority of viewers had not read the book when they first started watching the show (as seen by the upswing of interest and sales of the book series following the show's release). As such, how would the show's fidelity to the book (whether it be sticking close or diverging significantly from it) play a factor if the majority of the audience do not know what originally happened in the books? Moreover, as the original events have no sentimental value or hold special significance to the newcomers, why would sticking close to said events be of importance to them?

As for the show's eschewing television convention (e.g. killing off the show's main character before the first season finale), what it did was grab a lot of media attention; which does not necessarily translate to fan satisfaction or the generation of new fans (be it to the TV series or the novels). Also, bear in mind that certain things become the convention for a reason (e.g. they are actually good plot progressions/developments, the audience wants/responds well to it, etc). While being unique is important to help stand out amongst the competition, being different for the sake of being different (i.e. being unique in and of itself) is not necessarily a good thing. Not delivering what the audience want (which is different from delivering what the audience did not know they wanted) will lead to disappointment, alienation and ultimately the death of the show.

[GoodGuyA]

Nah, as with Dany and her hair not burning off, I don't think we need his nose cut off, I thought a nice scar would have been enough in the books and I really hated that he did that in the book. He can have a scar on his face and that's good enough for me. I think the logistics of shooting it would be pretty hard, just look at the Hound, they pretty much cover most of his scarring with a clump of hair and that's good enough for me.

It's not necessary, yes, but a mark is needed from the battle. Tyrion needs to be extremely distinguishable from any dwarf in the world. A half-nose is not the be all end all, but I guess it's just my inner fanboy.

I really love the idea of Dany taking the Unsullied at the end of Season 2. It would indeed make sense and provide us with a shocking lead up into next season that would be on par with the end of the first. Storm of Swords in itself should be its own season, ending at the Eyrie.

The prospect of melding the next two books is an extremely risky but necessary prospect to consider. People will stop watching if they aren't given the character they want to watch, and many people abandoned AFFC because it had that lack. I don't see any problem with it in theory, but my biggest concern is when the final two books will be out. If they both succeed in arriving in five years then the plan would be perfect, but any more than that and there will be a hitch.