[ADwD Spoilers] Reek throughout the book

[jxd]

So, is Theon the "Ghost in Winterfell"? Roose declared him innocent, but I get a nagging feeling that was just a misdirection.

[Maltaran]

I thought it was made clear that it was Mance's spearwives? Although they did deny killing Little Walder Frey, but that one was probably Manderley's work.

[banditry]

I thought it was made clear that it was Mance's spearwives? Although they did deny killing Little Walder Frey, but that one was probably Manderley's work.

I think Little Walder was killed by Big Walder.

[banditry]

While I can understand your revulsion to some degree, I have to admit that, in my opinion, the Reek/Theon chapters are amongst the strongest of all that Martin has written in A Song of Ice and Fire. Rarely have I read fiction that (for me, at least) worked so well on such a visceral level as these do.

And here Martin's often ridiculed repetitions (of which A Dance with Dragons, once again, has far too many) did not feel awkward or annoying, but instead captured Theon's perpetual despair and broken will in a simple, yet very powerful way.

Agreed; I thought the Theon chapters were the strongest thread in the book.

[jxd]

I thought it was made clear that it was Mance's spearwives? Although they did deny killing Little Walder Frey, but that one was probably Manderley's work.

It seems strange Mance and Co would want to put the entire castle on alert, their mission was to rescue "Arya".

[Howling North]

Just as easily they wanted to ferment suspicion and descent in order to create a chaotic situation to escape with, which was what happened after all.

[jxd]

Actually no, they chaos forced their hand.

[Howling North]

The one they definitely DIDN'T plan you mean? And if they hadn't killed the others in the past, why mention it at all amongst themselves?

[Joni]

Serves him right for killing the children. If that's what it takes to make him change, then so be it. It seems in Westeros you have to lose a limb or two for any chance at redemption.

[Aelinor Keath]

Yes, that line about the "other thing" made me think the same.

His behaviour towards Mance's companions at Winterfell is somewhat telling, too.

Since Ramsay is about torture, poor Theon may be cutup or incomplete instead of completely gone. :ack:

[corbaekin]

They don't have to reveal to the public that he is gelded, I assume. Somehow I assume that Aeron's first chapter would have revealed what Asha, Theon, and possibly Stannis were up to. Aeron is supposedly not on the Isles anymore, so I'd guess he might be at Torrhen's Square. And I'm sure even Aeron would prefer a mutilated Theon over Euron...

Well, here's a question. When someone challenges the legality of the kingsmoot, are they the only one who gets to benefit? It seems to me that Theon could challenge the legality of the Kingsmoot....and then throw any support he has to Asha, thus getting a new kingsmoot, but also gaining the throne for her and not for himself

[Gaston de Foix]

Well, here's a question. When someone challenges the legality of the kingsmoot, are they the only one who gets to benefit? It seems to me that Theon could challenge the legality of the Kingsmoot....and then throw any support he has to Asha, thus getting a new kingsmoot, but also gaining the throne for her and not for himself

well if Asha were with child, and Theon groomed his son and nephew as his heir? That's where I think GRRM is going. Btw, I didn't read this thread, but came to the same conclusion myself while reading the books...

[Baramos]

It's clear that the spearwives killed Yellow Dick and a couple of the other guys, just not Little Walder. One of the spearwives comes right out and basically admits to killing the adults, but not Little Walder.

Little Walder was probably killed by Manderly's order who wants to kill all the Freys he can.

EDIT: And yes Martin seemed to hammer home that Theon was castrated, I see no other reason to mention it fifty times via "hints", since apparently Theon can't just come out and say that he was castrated.

[Skywarpgold]

While I can understand your revulsion to some degree, I have to admit that, in my opinion, the Reek/Theon chapters are amongst the strongest of all that Martin has written in A Song of Ice and Fire. Rarely have I read fiction that (for me, at least) worked so well on such a visceral level as these do.

And here Martin's often ridiculed repetitions (of which A Dance with Dragons, once again, has far too many) did not feel awkward or annoying, but instead captured Theon's perpetual despair and broken will in a simple, yet very powerful way.

I totally agree. For me, before ADWD, I hated Theon for everything he did. Whereas, now I'm sympathetic to him as a result of his chapters in Dance. They were extremely well written chapters.

[TMWNN]

I think Little Walder was killed by Big Walder.

It's certainly possible; we're told that Big Walder dislikes Little Walder's brutality, and Mance's women repeatedly deny their involvement.

Well, here's a question. When someone challenges the legality of the kingsmoot, are they the only one who gets to benefit? It seems to me that Theon could challenge the legality of the Kingsmoot....and then throw any support he has to Asha, thus getting a new kingsmoot, but also gaining the throne for her and not for himself

I am embarrassed to not realize what Asha's loophole is until I read the above. It is that the kingsmoot was invalid because Theon--a legitimate contender--wasn't there, right?

[Faint]

well if Asha were with child, and Theon groomed his son and nephew as his heir? That's where I think GRRM is going. Btw, I didn't read this thread, but came to the same conclusion myself while reading the books...

I had similar thoughts, although, Theon is not in fit state to rule right now. This is going to take time.

The other issue is, if Asha is pregnant with Qarl the Maid's child, she will have to convince Tris Botley to lie and say it's his, in return for marriage. Although, I suppose she would have gotten access to moon tea after she was captured by Stannis?

[corbaekin]

I am embarrassed to not realize what Asha's loophole is until I read the above. It is that the kingsmoot was invalid because Theon--a legitimate contender--wasn't there, right?

Yes, that's what I think. I was going to say, not that anyone would want Theon to rule over them, but who knows, these guys might welcome the sight of his incredibly screwed up face.

[Faint]

I don't think there is any loophole for Asha. Whether Theon was there or not, she was. She had her chance. The whole point is that she wants Theon to win the throne, although, she probably never suspected how wrecked he would be.

[IthilanorStPete]

Yes, that's what I think. I was going to say, not that anyone would want Theon to rule over them, but who knows, these guys might welcome the sight of his incredibly screwed up face.

Between Theon's screwed-up-ness, Euron's brand of craziness, and Aeron's fanaticism, the Greyjoys are making the Targs look positively normal by this point.

[Bronn Stone]

Asha specifically says she has even less a chance of ruling in her own right than ever, now that she lost Deepwoode Motte and was captured in the process. Even though I always read her speech at the Kingsmoot (I am tempted to call it a Kingswood just to make Ran shake his fist in frustration) as her campaign speech for the next Kingsmoot (she knew she could not prevail and believed Victarion would and lead them to ruin).

On the topic of Theon's gelding, totally missed that. Good catch. Also explains why forcing him to pleasure Jeyne Poole with his tongue is even more humiliating than it would be otherwise.