[ADWD SPOILERS] Epilogue

[Sword of the North]

Varys is now on my hate list.

All those times he said he served for the good of the realm was B.S. He only served the Targs. When has a Targ on the throne ever guaranteed the realm will be fine? Sure a dragon will help against the Others, but does he know about the Others or even if the dragons would hatch? If he had known about the Others, why not convince people to send folks to the Wall?

He wanted Ned dead IMO, because he wanted chaos did he not? Same reason he killed Kevan(one of the Lannisters I actually liked). If he wanted peace, why not let Kevan bring some peace to the realm(because I thought he could have?) Now I actually like Connington and Aegon (if he really is a Targ), because they sacked up and set out to conquer their kingdom, and not believe that it was simply entitled to them because of their name. I could care less if Aegon is a fake.

Now, the way Varys reapperaed out of now where(to me) was awesome and his little birds would totally scare me. I just hope Varys and Littlefinger are going to end up sharing a sky cell with the bastard of the Dreadfort.

[Calesta]

I wonder if Cersei is as empty and docile as she appears to be. There is that line about a woman knowing her place that Kevan reacts to.

Could Cersei be playing the part of a humbled woman until Ser Robert proves her innocence in battle?

(The scrubbing is probably not faked behavior though.)

Poor Kevan, as Lannisters go, he was one of the nicer ones. Though I suppose I should have seen it coming in some fashion.

Varys taking this hands on approach to getting rid of an obstacle to his plans...And then revealing his little birds...

I feel like rereading the entire series and really analyzing all the Varys scenes carefully, he is winning at the mad plotting (him and Littlefinger as has been pointed out).

Varys killed Kevan's to re-empower Cersei, since she is the biggest cause of trouble

[A Redeemed Hound]

The realm was peaceful under the Targaryens. One mad king does not mean much. Rhaegar was beloved by all. King Robert wigged out and started a rebellion for a woman who never loved him. He became a crappy king and brought the Lannisters into power and all of them are hated be the entire realm.

Varys is AWESOME!!!!!

Great chapter. WINTER HAS COME!!!!

I am expecting BIG things in the next book. I knew this one would be all setup and putting the pieces in place. Next book better blow me away!!!!

[Kingslayer]

If he had known about the Others, why not convince people to send folks to the Wall?

He tried to convince Lord Tywin to send City Watch deserters to the Wall, citing "disturbing reports"...

I think Varys honestly wants to destroy the ruling elite in the name of the common people. He himself fell victim to some sick rich asshole as a child, after all. A good-intentioned Targaryen king, raised in (relative!) poverty and obscurity, may be just what's needed to save Westeros.

[winteriscoming73]

Could Cersei be playing the part of a humbled woman until Ser Robert proves her innocence in battle?

Think you are right about her playing the part until after the trial by combat. I like how she asked Kevan to bring Taena to court after the trial. She definitely seemed at her lowest point in Dance but should be back to her scheming ways in the next book. I believe she is going to be even more paranoid than she was in Feast now that Kevan is gone though and a court dominated by Tyrell bannermen.

[Lyra Targaryen]

Yeah, that's his little birds.

I always wanted a Kevan POV. But not like this!

What if his "Little Birds" / assassin children = Robert's bastards? lol

P.S. GRRM is quite fond of crossbows.

[FuliginEyes]

Really disappointed to see Kevan go like that. Bah.

I don't think Varys really wants what is best for the realm. How would he have a guarantee that a Dany or a Viserys or an Aegon would have made a good ruler? I think Kevan could have made steps towards securing some peace and stability. Now it's just opened up further into chaos.

But yes. Winter has come.

[Calesta]

Really disappointed to see Kevan go like that. Bah.

I don't think Varys really wants what is best for the realm. How would he have a guarantee that a Dany or a Viserys or an Aegon would have made a good ruler? I think Kevan could have made steps towards securing some peace and stability. Now it's just opened up further into chaos.

But yes. Winter has come.

I doubt very much if varys wants what is good for the realm. Ser Barristan remebers all the problems Varys caused the Targons by convincing King Aerys that his son Rhaegar was conspiring to despose him.

[Kingslayer]

Want to add that I love the BLACK DREAD, Rhaenys' avenger-kitten. Not only did he claw Joff and assault Tommen with his eyes, but he once stole food out of Lord Tywin's hands at a feast and, iirc, rubbed affectionately against Sansa in ACoK... maybe thinking he finally found Rhaenys? :( A gold cloak told Arya he's "the real king of the castle." He was more right than he knew. :)

I hope, when the Targaryen army overruns the Red Keep in TWoW or ADoS, they find an old black cat sitting on the Iron Throne. Cat starts purring as the soldiers approach and hops down. :thumbsup:

[LannisterStark]

How is it that Varys is still in King's Landing undetected?

[lano]

Was it ever made clear that Varys went into hiding? It would seem he had to b/c too many would suspect he assisted Tyrion with all his secret influence and knowledge.

Here is my theory: Varys is a skinchanger and a very powerful one. His little birds in King's Landing really are little birds and cats, and ravens, and even little children. His little mice when he was in Pentos were little mice. GRRM went out of his way from the first chapter to get the idea of skinchangers into our heads and there are others who could do it among the Starks for example. Maybe in the end times, more and more skinchangers are born. And stretching it a bit further, he may also be a follower of the Red God and can change his own appearance as Melisandre changed the appearance of Rattleshirt. She also seemed to have a rapport with Ghost that even Jon could not get between if she didn't want him to.

[lano]

Having said my theory, I still think the Epilogue sewed things up too nicely. One little chapter and all that happens? I guess a lot of it was set already in previous books, but it was all over too fast to be truly satisfying.

And who is this Robert Strong guy? Regardless of speculation about that (resurrected Gregor or whatever), why would anybody trust a guy out of nowhere who nobody seems to be sure of who he is, just on the say so of Qyburn? Seems implausible they would just let him become a Kingsguard now that someone less rash than Cersei was calling the shots on such decisions.

[Rorschach]

Aegon is probably the next heir.

Reading through there are many places that the Freys discuss lineage, I don't have the exact pages or quotes for this; however, in the list of houses at the back of the books, Walder Frey's oldest son Stevron is listed as the heir to the Crossing. Stevron is killed in battle and the next in line is said to be Ryman, Stevron's eldest son, rather than Emmon Frey (Genna Lannister's husband and Walder's second eldest son). As further proof, when Ryman dies the line is passed to Ryman's eldest Edwyn (Walder's gr grandson) rather than a son or grandson of Walder.

If the Targs go by the same inheritance, than Aegon is the rightful heir in the Targ line as the eldest son of the eldest son. However, Targs have been known to not follow all the customs of Westeros....

The Targs *do* follow the same inheritance rule. When Daeron II's eldest son Baelor Breakspears died, Baelor's son Valar become the heir to the iron throne. Not until both Valar and his younger brother Matarys dead in the spring, their uncle Aery I become the king.

The inheritance line in Westero is a Depth-First-Search instead of Breadth-First, this is known.

[mediaeval]

Am I the only person who wonders whether Varys really is a eunuch? He makes himself out to be all about the realm, and tells Ned about being cut, and how he hates magic (but wants Daenerys with her dragons back?)... but then in this epilogue it has his voice deepening. And he can imitate a deep voice when he's pretending to be a soldier, as well as having stubble--not a beard, but stubble, which seems like it would be tough to do with medieval makeup.

I just wonder if in all of his ability to act, to put on disguises, etc., if Varys the eunuch isn't simply one more disguise.

I felt it was Kevan's perception of Varys' voice that changed as he lay dying, rather than Varys' voice actually becoming deeper. The line says, "The eunuch's voice seemed deeper"

[mediaeval]

Having said my theory, I still think the Epilogue sewed things up too nicely. One little chapter and all that happens? I guess a lot of it was set already in previous books, but it was all over too fast to be truly satisfying.

And who is this Robert Strong guy? Regardless of speculation about that (resurrected Gregor or whatever), why would anybody trust a guy out of nowhere who nobody seems to be sure of who he is, just on the say so of Qyburn? Seems implausible they would just let him become a Kingsguard now that someone less rash than Cersei was calling the shots on such decisions.

Trusting Qyburn does seem odd, but I suppose Cersei was the queen and entitled to ask for her own champion (who had to be named to the Kinsguard before he can defend her). It would be incredibly ironic if Cersei were to come to a sticky end at the hands of Qyburn, her death drawn out like that of Lollys Stokeworth's mother...

[Restless]

I doubt very much if varys wants what is good for the realm. Ser Barristan remebers all the problems Varys caused the Targons by convincing King Aerys that his son Rhaegar was conspiring to despose him.

That!

Maybe Varys is working pro-Others, claiming he is pro-Targaryen, when all he wants is saw chaos, weakening Westeros before Others invade.

BTW, anyone else hating how due to tv-show, now others are becoming "white-walkers"?

[Elundin]

I'm done, at long last.

(Hi everyone, btw).

Okey, so my theory on Varys in short, though I'm sure its been mentioned: Rhaegar was loved by most and respected by all. His children would be the true heirs to the Throne. So this is what Varys roots for. Daenerys and her brother were a distraction, merely. Just compare the training Aegon had versus the youth Daenerys lived. Only detail puzzling me is why Ilyrio would give the dragon eggs to Dany, if he never ment for her to rule.

Anyway, Kevan's death was the only death that didn't annoy me. It was part of an obvious plot, served an obvious cause. Unlike many and more deaths we witnesses so far.

[George Snow]

Varys is now on my hate list.

Don't hate the player. Hate the Game.

Yes, Varys is a Targ supporter. I do wonder how/why he was playing Aerys vs. Rhaegar.

Yes, he probably did want some sort of peace in the Kingdom, until it was time to put a Targ on the throne.

Rhaegar has warged into Balerio. It is known.

Now that Aegon is back to Westeros, Varys needs for the rest of the Kingdom(s) to be at war. A united kingdom could easily throw back Aegon's invasion.

Yes, I see Aegon forming some type of alliance with Dorne. Dorne and the Tyrells hate each other, so I see them fighting at some time. But Varys wants the Lannisters to weaken the Tyrells, first.

Cersei's paranoia is a great way to get the Lannisters / Tyrells fighting. And the best way to get that going is to assassinate Kevan. Also, using a crossbow may make Cersei think that Tyrion is back in Westeros. (And how sweet will it be for Varys if a Lannister actually helps to bring down House Lannister.)

Jon Connington would be a good person to vouch for Aegon, and if he isn't enough, Ashara Dayne (Septa Lemore?) would be good to vouch for him.

I do think that Varys did keep Dany/Viserys as a backup plan for Aegon.

GH

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Varys is now on my hate list.

All those times he said he served for the good of the realm was B.S. He only served the Targs. When has a Targ on the throne ever guaranteed the realm will be fine? Sure a dragon will help against the Others, but does he know about the Others or even if the dragons would hatch? If he had known about the Others, why not convince people to send folks to the Wall?

He wanted Ned dead IMO, because he wanted chaos did he not? Same reason he killed Kevan(one of the Lannisters I actually liked). If he wanted peace, why not let Kevan bring some peace to the realm(because I thought he could have?)

I agree completely with you. Varys never served the realm. Directly due to his actions thousands (if not millions?) of commonfolk will starve and die of famine and disease. Fuck you Varys.

Now I actually like Connington and Aegon (if he really is a Targ), because they sacked up and set out to conquer their kingdom, and not believe that it was simply entitled to them because of their name.

I'm confused.

Please explain how Aegon is relying less on his Targaryen heritage than is Daenerys, or where Dany is said to believe she will just be given the crown because of her name.

The very reason she went to Slaver's Bay in the first place was to get an army so that should could conquer Westeros, and then she stayed there (among other reasons) so her dragons would be useful weapons for conquest.

I could care less if Aegon is a fake.

I agree again, and I think it would be especially interesting if we never learn if Aegon is legitimately Rhaegar's son.

However, I think his sketchy past will become a serious problem for Aegon, because unlike with Daenerys it will be easy for his enemies to claim he is a pretender since there's no proof either way. Stannis for one will certainly do this. Probably the Tyrells too.

I'm done, at long last.

(Hi everyone, btw).Only detail puzzling me is why Ilyrio would give the dragon eggs to Dany, if he never ment for her to rule.

I think Aegon is a fake Targaryen, or if he's a Targ he's a blackfire descendent and so his dragon blood is very dilute.

Illyrio and Varys wanted the Dragon Eggs to hatch if possible, and they thought perhaps Daenerys' or Viserys' Dragon Blood would do that. If they failed, no big deal, Illyrio made enough money by selling Dany to make up for the loss of the eggs.

Aegon OTOH, not really being a Targ, would never be able to hatch the eggs.

I think what we're seeing with Viserys and Dany is that Varys/Illyrio REALLY did not want Viserys to be king because he's clearly as crazy as his dad. However, Daenerys is the perfect wife for their pet Aegon since she brings unquestionable legitimacy and real Targaryen blood (and maybe dragons if they're lucky). So they put Dany and Viserys in a situation that would likely lead to Viserys' death, but gave Daenerys powerful protectors (Drogo and Jorah) to keep her alive for Aegon. Probably if Drogo were still alive they'd have him assassinated after the conquest.

[ferthepoet]

So why did Varys kill Pycelle, killing Kevan makes sense because he was too competent and was a danger to Aegon, but can't think of any gain in killing Pycelle