[ADWD SPOILERS] Epilogue

[Alice Stark]

Must there be a Grand Plot behind everything that goes on in Westeros? Although I found Littlefinger's story very interesting (the way he organised Joffrey's demise etc.) and the Varys & Illyrio hiding and bringing up Aegon part, must Varys really be resonsible for everything? This murder was just one too much: how can Varys always be involved in everything? This kind of annoys me. Though partly because Kevan always seemed an interesting character, and then when he finally has a voice...

The use of actual children also seems just incredibly creepy.

Also: many explanations have been put forth regarding Varys's exact motivations, somehow neither of them seem plausible to me. Surely, with his cunning etc, there would have been simpler ways of achieving "peace"?

[Wun Wun Greyjoy]

I'm just excited for when Arya actually does return (I don't think she is there now, and I don't think she scratched Tommen) to see how the cat wraging potential and Varys ends up playing out. She has a (slight) history with the old Tom cat, and now has now wraged a cat twice... she is going to be a BA.

As to the children I agree completely with them living in the walls accounting for big eyes and pale skin.

[kephv]

As to the children I agree completely with them living in the walls accounting for big eyes and pale skin.

I didn't even think of that. That's creepy as hell.

[Liathano]

Also: many explanations have been put forth regarding Varys's exact motivations, somehow neither of them seem plausible to me. Surely, with his cunning etc, there would have been simpler ways of achieving "peace"?

He's not a god, he's just a smart human. No-one can achieve peace without sacrifices having to be made, in a world where everyone is in it for themselves.

[ghost the direwolf]

Varys doesn't really care about the children or little people while they are been killed and are suffering due to this war that he planned he is safe in KL. and i do not believe that aegon will be all that Varys says he will.

This boy only went to westeros because Tyrion urged him to, to impress dany. Not because of the small pleople.

[Brienne=Azor]

This hasn't been discussed yet, but could the new Maester be somebody who was in the room with Sam when he got to the Citadel? Fake Pate? or the dornish kid? Or the guy who lit the dragon glass flame? (sounds Targ-ish to me.)

[kephv]

This hasn't been discussed yet, but could the new Maester be somebody who was in the room with Sam when he got to the Citadel? Fake Pate? or the dornish kid? Or the guy who lit the dragon glass flame? (sounds Targ-ish to me.)

Marwyn went to Mereen to seek Dany. It's hard to say who they'll send. If Cersei gets any power back, I'm thinking she'll have Qyburn be the new GM.

[Brienne=Azor]

Marwyn went to Mereen to seek Dany. It's hard to say who they'll send. If Cersei gets any power back, I'm thinking she'll have Qyburn be the new GM.

Oh yea, sorry I couldn't remember any of the names without the book in front of me. I forgot that he went to Dany. Is Cersei allowed to appoint the GM, or is that up to the Citadel? I'm not sure on this one.

[Eurons trueborn]

I'm truely convinced, that Aegon is the real deal. After all, Varys was the one who switched the baby. That combined with what he tells Kevan, hits the mark for me. I also like the thought of Aegon as a real Targaryen, and I believe he is much better suited for kingship, than horny-teenage-too-kind-and-honest-Dany.

And listen. Illyrio (and no one else) had no clue that those dragoneggs would hatch. How could anybody know? Look at Summerhall! The last eggs were hatched too long ago, for anyone to have a Hotpies clue as to what it would take, and even to know that it was possible with such old things.

Now, I think that the gift of the eggs was another diversion. Illyrio knew that Ser Jorah was spying, and to give a gift like that would prove to Jorah (and Robert) that if anyone was betting on a Targ, it would be on Dany - thus keeping eyes away from Aegon.

My theory on why Varys want's a Targ on the throne, is that all the other great houses in a way are equal. They were all kings before they kneeled for the Dragon, and then they were all Lords. When the dragon died, the others scrabled for power. Would the Lannisters murder a Targ as they did Robert? No (except in the case where Jaime did). I believe there is a greater chance for LONG lasting peace with a Targaryen in charge, than with any Lord of the great houses of Westeros. Then the Lords would be equal again and not envy eachother. Or that would be Varys' take on it, I believe.

My question about Kevans murder is, who will be blamed? Varys would like to create as much mistrust in the Red Keep as possible, so what will the consequenses be, politically speaking? Except what Varys predicted in the epilogue.

So that's my first post :) Sorry if it comes off corny, but english is only my second language.

[kephv]

Oh yea, sorry I couldn't remember any of the names without the book in front of me. I forgot that he went to Dany. Is Cersei allowed to appoint the GM, or is that up to the Citadel? I'm not sure on this one.

I think either Egg or someone on his council was going to make sure Aemon was appointed as the next GM but Aemon didn't think that was fair so he declined. So yeah, I guess it's possible.

EDIT: It seems I got that wrong. I looked it up. Aemon declined a seat on Maekar's council saying it would usurp the place of the rightful GM, he was never offered it himself. Maybe with the right moves she could influence their decision but Qyburn doesn't even wear a chain any longer, so yeah, probably not possible.

My question about Kevans murder is, who will be blamed? Varys would like to create as much mistrust in the Red Keep as possible, so what will the consequenses be, politically speaking? Except what Varys predicted in the epilogue.

Tyrion. Or at least Cersei will see that he is at least. I can't imagine how paranoid she'll be after this.

[Bastard Walder]

I love how he's killed in the same way as Tywin. What a copycat.

[Myrddin]

I love how he's killed in the same way as Tywin. What a copycat.

Or trying to perpetuate the rumor that Tyrion is still in King's Landing and is gunning for his relatives... At least, that's how Cersei will interpret Kevan's murder.

[Brienne=Azor]

Tyrion. Or at least Cersei will see that he is at least. I can't imagine how paranoid she'll be after this.

For some reason it showed me as asking who would be blamed. I think the crossbow was specifically chosen to make Cersei think it was Tyrion (and by extension the Tyrells) who killed Kevan. I feel bad though. Kevan was the only Lannister I really liked.

[Forelver]

Is Varys talking about Young Griff, or, if YG is a fake, is the Aegon he's talking about someone we don't know about yet? (or if we do know him, we didn't know he was Aegon).

I was suspicious too when I first read about the children but didn't think about them being the LIttle Birds. I did think of the COTF too, but I don't see how Varys could get them to do his bidding.

And what a terrible life for those kids, not only having to live like that but being made to kill or Varys as well. He truly is a horrible little man.

And I thought of the cat being Arya/warg too, don't know how she got there but it would be cool.

Re Cersei-I don't buy her act for a minute, I think she'll be back to cause trouble as soon as the trial is over.

I thought the book was amazing. And loved reading everyone's comments, I got so much more from the book by coming here. Thanks everyone!

[Tyrionthebest]

Is Varys talking about Young Griff, or, if YG is a fake, is the Aegon he's talking about someone we don't know about yet? (or if we do know him, we didn't know he was Aegon).

I was suspicious too when I first read about the children but didn't think about them being the LIttle Birds. I did think of the COTF too, but I don't see how Varys could get them to do his bidding.

And what a terrible life for those kids, not only having to live like that but being made to kill or Varys as well. He truly is a horrible little man.

And I thought of the cat being Arya/warg too, don't know how she got there but it would be cool.

Re Cersei-I don't buy her act for a minute, I think she'll be back to cause trouble as soon as the trial is over.

I thought the book was amazing. And loved reading everyone's comments, I got so much more from the book by coming here. Thanks everyone!

It's Young Griff obviously . I doubt GRRM is gonna pull another twist that ANOTHER Aegon is alive, that would be just lame .

[beetoe157]

Who is Varys really? Why does he want a Targaryen ruler so badly? I think Varys is not really 'varys' but somebody in hidding...

[kephv]

Who is Varys really? Why does he want a Targaryen ruler so badly? I think Varys is not really 'varys' but somebody in hidding...

I think he cares more about a ruler that's good for the realm (and one that's tractable) than one that's necessarily a Targaryen.

[ZooDane]

I think Varys and Littlefinger are the most interesting characters in the book. One, or both, will have to fall by the end of the series and that will likely be one of the biggest events when it occurs.

I think a lot of people are complaining that ADWD was a very boring book where very little happened. I'm actually pretty happy with the book because it has basically laid out all the back story and everything we need to know for the epic conclusion that will take place over the next two books. The last two books will have to be full of action and I would have to doubt there will be any mingling around. It's very unfortunate we have to wait a long time to find out the impact the Epilogue and the Events at the Wall with Jon will have on the series.

The Lannisters have no doubt lost all controll and Tommen will soon be dead. Kevan Lannister, who didn't mind having aid from Highgarden and other families, begun to see that the court was being dominated by other families and the Lannisters were losing controll of the Iron Throne. With Kevan, the most infulencial Lannister, dead there is very little holding the Lannisters in power. Not many people believe in the rule of a boy king and call into question the authority of Tommen. Tommen now has very little protecting his claim to the throne from others who are hungry to steal the seat for themselves, or their family. Margaery, or at least her father, is in position to assasinate Tommen and claim the rule of the Iron Throne for Highgarden with little to no opposition. There will likely be a huge struggle over the Iron Throne which will, once again, divert the focus of the realm from the Others assault on the Wall and Dany's return to Westeros.

Can't wait to see how it all turns out.

[ZooDane]

Also, I don't think Arya understands what it means to be a warg. I could be completely wrong here but she refers to her 'warging' as "wolf dreams". It seems to me that she believes that they are simply that - dreams.

Bran didn't understand the power of warging until Jojen began to teach him and then he met with the COTF. Jon also didn't understand his power until he met wargs with while he was amongst the wildlings. They say that it is extremely hard to enter an animal, but once you've done it several times it's like "putting on a boot."

So how could Arya, who is half a world away, be able to control a cat in Kings Landing? She has no training in the arts of wargs. She, at least I believe, doesn't even know that she is a warg. So I think people saying that Arya was the one who scratched Tommen are wrong and are just looking a little too deep for a connection.

[kephv]

Also, I don't think Arya understands what it means to be a warg. I could be completely wrong here but she refers to her 'warging' as "wolf dreams". It seems to me that she believes that they are simply that - dreams.

She calls them that, but she's aware that they're more than just dreams. She refers to her list as the night wolf's list, saying that one day she will hunt them down and taste their blood. Also, she knows it's snowing in the riverlands but doesn't tell the KM that because he'd ask how she knew.

So I think people saying that Arya was the one who scratched Tommen are wrong and are just looking a little too deep for a connection.

Agreed.