[ADwD SPOILERS] Sansa thread II

[Wouter]

Brynden may be a possibility to turn the Vale for Aegon - but only if Aegon proves to hold no grudges over the rebellion and to be mostly concerned instead with defeating his present opponents. In that case, he may seem like a better prospect for the Riverlords and the Vale.

There is the problem of hostages, though. Lannisters are still in charge of much of the place.

Actually I kinda like it. Potentially yet another marriage proposal for Sansa that will likely never actually take place, especially if it is supposed to wait until KL is taken (and maybe even until after the situation between Dany and Aegon is cleared out).

And it would have to wait anyway until the High Septon and Aegon gain an "understanding" (read: Aegon takes KL), considering she is still married to Tyrion.

Between sending Tyrion far away from Westeros (and probably slow to return as well, if Dany's recent storyline is any indication) and changing the former, pliant High Septon to this new zealot, Martin seems to have really locked Sansa tightly in those marriage vows until Dany's return (or at least until Lannisters/Tyrells lose control over KL). Unless she is supposed to really turn her back on the the Andal Faith.

I doubt Aegon will outright take KL, allthough he will probably enjoy a number of successes before he inevitably goes down (the pole dragon is cheered by crowds in Dany's vision). If Doran doesn't wholeheartedly support him, he has too few men to do much damage. Even with full Dornish support, the might of the Reach (and whatever Lannister and Storm Land support they still have) should still at least equal his. It is those dragons that change everything, but they are far away and out of control.

[Faint]

I don't know why Arya comes up as a suggested killer for LF -- she's had no interaction with him at all.

Actually, that's very good evidence for Arya being the killer of Littlefinger. She can't assassinate anybody she knows. Granted, she would be getting revenge for her father but she wouldn't know that and thus would not need to lie to the Faceless Men.

I like the theory myself, with Varys and/or Illyrio paying the Faceless Men to kill Littlefinger and Arya being sent as the assassin.

On an unrelated note, the best candidate for marriage where "Aegon" is concerned, is quite obviously Margaery Tyrell -- after Tommen dies (which should happen soon enough).

[Wouter]

She has Briena (sp), Podrick, Ser Hyle Hunt, and Jaime, if he survives. She has a making of her own queens Guard and in typical Sansa style she's not even aware of it. All of the above mentioned are loyal to her safety.

Well, Ser Hyle Hunt seemed to want to sell Sansa to KL - that's what he claimed to Brienne anyway.

And Jaime has "outsourced" his supposed protection to Brienne, for the time being at least.

I would rather add Sandor and maybe Brune to that list instead of them.

Sualk; I quite agree with Margaery Tyrell as decent candidate (maybe the Tyrells kill Tommen themselves then, "to prove they have forsaken Lannisters forever" :uhoh: :ack: )

However, if Tommen also dies nobody - and especially no king candidate - may want to marry the black widow. You're apt to die pretty soon then.

Politically speaking, it would be the ultimate match for a 'soft' surrender by the Tyrells, though. Since the Tyrells now hold so much power in KL, they would probably prefer Tommen and serve steel to the Golden company though, especially if Dorne is actively involved as well.

[Alexia]

Actually, that's very good evidence for Arya being the killer of Littlefinger. She can't assassinate anybody she knows.

But she does know Lord Petyr Baelish; she met him in KL. So that automatically invalidates her as a candidate anyway. Remember that the sailors made a big point of telling her their names.

As for Margaery -- I'd love to see someone suggest her to Aegon, if only to see him look at that person and ask, "Why do you want me to die?" If Tommen goes down, Margaery is soiled goods. I think that girl will either die or end up in the silent sisters at the end. I can't see any other lords or kings considering her after the fate of the three previous kings she married.

[littlebird_]

Hate to break up the conversation about why Sansa would be a good wife candidate to Aegon, But has anyone noticed that Sansa has her own Sansa guard?

She has Briena (sp), Podrick, Ser Hyle Hunt, and Jaime, if he survives. She has a making of her own queens Guard and in typical Sansa style she's not even aware of it. All of the above mentioned are loyal to her safety.

So I'm praying she gets kidnapped and then rescue by her Sansa Guard. Which will give her a army of sorts as Lady Stoneheart has many under her service.

In the end, Arya can join her Sansa guard. Who better to protect her than her little sister who has special gifts.

HA!! I had never considered it like that but I like it :D

I am actually thinking that they will make their way to the Vale somehow but it might also be interesting if Sansa does get kidnapped and on the way her guard finds her :D

[awesome possum]

I think Sansa learns far too well from LF for his liking. After she deposes him, he'll make a little call to a certain group of assassins without faces. They'll send their brightest pupil to deal with her.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I think Jon died and is now Ghost Jon.

I kinda want him to find his way to Sansa. Then Sansa will have her wolf again.

EDIT: It kinda saddens me when I have to put "think" he died after he received several mortal wounds.

[Alexia]

I think Jon died and is now Ghost Jon.

I kinda want him to find his way to Sansa. Then Sansa will have her wolf again.

Aww! I like this idea -- too bad it won't happen. :)

[anouk85]

Hello,

I find Littlefinger a pretty morbidly fascinating character and I always gape in amazement to see what he has become and what he has accomplished by manipulating and using other people and sheer cunning and mercilessness.

I guess he will die though or at the very least his plans will totally go awry. The Stark boys are still alive, I hope Davos finds Rickon soon. And then there is Brienne, the hound, Jaime if they don’t kill him, Cathlyn and possibly Gentry. I wonder if she and Gentry will ever meet.

I hope that Sansa will grow a bit of a spine in the coming books, at least if she learns a bit from littlefinger she will be better able to survive.

oh my favourite scene in book 3 was the whole kiss in the snow and throw Lysa from the balcony. I found the wedding rather disgusting though.

Greetings, Anouk,

[Steel_Wind]

I don't know the twists and turns between now and the end of the series... but I do know that Sansa is armed and dangerous. Sooner or later, she'll kill Littlefinger. Probably as he is about to kill her cousin, Sweetrobin, though it may be after that if Sansa takes too long to summon up her courage.

A Storm of Swords, Ch. 61

She heard a faint rustle of leaves, and stuffed the silver hair net down deep in the pocket of her cloak. “Who’s there?” she cried. “Who is it?” The godswood was dim and dark, and the bells were ringing Joff into his grave.

She switched her clothes and left them in a bole in the tree of the Godswood. But the hairnet? That came with her from KL. The hairnet in her cloak is a Chekhov's Gun. Sooner or later, it's coming back.

[littlebird_]

Between sending Tyrion far away from Westeros (and probably slow to return as well, if Dany's recent storyline is any indication) and changing the former, pliant High Septon to this new zealot, Martin seems to have really locked Sansa tightly in those marriage vows until Dany's return (or at least until Lannisters/Tyrells lose control over KL). Unless she is supposed to really turn her back on the the Andal Faith.

I remember reading the parts when its decided that Tyrion and Sansa are to be wed and thinking "No not him, she'll never get out of that marriage, let it be another Lannister, someone who can actually die" but now its clear that that's exactly why she had to marry Tyrion because GRRM didn't want her out of the marriage in the near future. I guess it was hus way of making sure there was at least one thing guaranteed to go wrong with LF's plans.

She switched her clothes and left them in a bole in the tree of the Godswood. But the hairnet? That came with her from KL. The hairnet in her cloak is a Chekhov's Gun. Sooner or later, it's coming back.

yeah, I agree, I think its there for a reason and GRRM isn't just going to forget about it. I don't know when she'll do it, I don't think she'll kill LF just to get out of going along with the plan, so it might be after sweetrobin dies (hopefully not) or something else happens but sooner or later I do think she'll be the one to kill him.

I also think this arc will be resolved in TWOW so it will happen before the end of that book.

[Faint]

But she does know Lord Petyr Baelish; she met him in KL. So that automatically invalidates her as a candidate anyway. Remember that the sailors made a big point of telling her their names.

As for Margaery -- I'd love to see someone suggest her to Aegon, if only to see him look at that person and ask, "Why do you want me to die?" If Tommen goes down, Margaery is soiled goods. I think that girl will either die or end up in the silent sisters at the end. I can't see any other lords or kings considering her after the fate of the three previous kings she married.

I haven't read the first book in quite a while but did Arya meet Littlefinger? Where did this happen? She was so unto herself at the time that I have a hard time remembering her interactions with anyone outside her family, excepting Syrio. And even if she did meet him, would she remember at this point? That's the relevant question where the Faceless Men are concerned.

As for Margaery, I don't see why she would be condemned to die or be sent to the Silent Sisters. Sure, she played a big role in killing Joffrey, but who outside Cersei Lannister would begrudge her for that?

If she does die, I think it will be a result of Varys making it so that she is found guilty, and that only in order to further strain the Lannister-Tyrell "alliance."

[Raksha the Demon]

Do we actually know that Margaery was a knowing participant in Joffrey's murder? I kind of thought she was, or at least knew about what Grandma Thorns was up to; but I couldn't be sure; because I never noticed GRRM spelling it out.

[Faint]

Do we actually know that Margaery was a knowing participant in Joffrey's murder? I kind of thought she was, or at least knew about what Grandma Thorns was up to; but I couldn't be sure; because I never noticed GRRM spelling it out.

If you think about it logically, she was most likely supposed to be the poisoner in fact, until Joffrey screwed up matters by bringing the chalice to Tyrion's side of the table, at which point Garlan Tyrell probably had to fill in. Regardless, she was far and away the most likely choice to be the original poisoner and was certainly in on the plot because of the risk that she might drink the poison herself. This has been discussed ad nauseum in the general forum, if you want to take a gander but I think simple logic would do the trick as well.

[theepajaro]

I think before its over Sansa will be reunited with her mother and redeem her mother's soul. When it comes to forgiving others no one is more forgiving than Sansa. I think she'll help her mother forgive those who betrayed her family so that Cat can have a peaceful death. She will also help the others, under her mother's control, find their way back to the men they were before the war.

This all happening while Dany and the others are fighting the others. She will then have brought peace to the land and be loved by the commoners. I think above all that is what Sansa wants. To be loved and help other people. That is why she is nice to the those she does not particularly like.

Perhaps, in the end her role in the new Westeros will be a diplomat or some seat on the council because of her role in bringing peace to the land.

As to whom she will be married to in the end. I don't think that is really important.

Of course the flip side is that she reunites with her mother and starts to get her revenge. Highly doubtful.

[Podrick + Arya = Win]

Brynden may be a possibility to turn the Vale for Aegon - but only if Aegon proves to hold no grudges over the rebellion and to be mostly concerned instead with defeating his present opponents. In that case, he may seem like a better prospect for the Riverlords and the Vale.

There is the problem of hostages, though. Lannisters are still in charge of much of the place.

Actually I kinda like it. Potentially yet another marriage proposal for Sansa that will likely never actually take place, especially if it is supposed to wait until KL is taken (and maybe even until after the situation between Dany and Aegon is cleared out).

And it would have to wait anyway until the High Septon and Aegon gain an "understanding" (read: Aegon takes KL), considering she is still married to Tyrion.

Between sending Tyrion far away from Westeros (and probably slow to return as well, if Dany's recent storyline is any indication) and changing the former, pliant High Septon to this new zealot, Martin seems to have really locked Sansa tightly in those marriage vows until Dany's return (or at least until Lannisters/Tyrells lose control over KL). Unless she is supposed to really turn her back on the the Andal Faith.

I doubt Aegon will outright take KL, allthough he will probably enjoy a number of successes before he inevitably goes down (the pole dragon is cheered by crowds in Dany's vision). If Doran doesn't wholeheartedly support him, he has too few men to do much damage. Even with full Dornish support, the might of the Reach (and whatever Lannister and Storm Land support they still have) should still at least equal his. It is those dragons that change everything, but they are far away and out of control.

Well, I want Aegon to win. When you begin to cheer for a new character come out of nowhere and hope a girl whose story you've been following for 5 books fails, there's something wrong with the writing or the choice of Dany as protagonist.

And besides, Sansa to marry Aegon? Poor Aegon, he can do better.

[littlebird_]

I think before its over Sansa will be reunited with her mother and redeem her mother's soul. When it comes to forgiving others no one is more forgiving than Sansa. I think she'll help her mother forgive those who betrayed her family so that Cat can have a peaceful death. She will also help the others, under her mother's control, find their way back to the men they were before the war.

I think they might meet again as well, there seems to be the possibility of a convergence of a couple of characters, of course I don't know how it will go but Cat is with Jaime and Brienne and looking for Sansa, Blackfish might run into them, I have no idea how they'll figure out where Sansa is but maybe they'll go to the Vale for other reasons and see her there

By the end of the next book at least some of the main characters need to come together to bring some unity to the story or maybe as some have speculated Sansa will be taken by Blackfish and then again on the road they might run into the Sansa guard

[anouk85]

Hi, I dont know why everyone is such a big Sweetrobin fan. I didnt particularly like him and I didnt really get the Idea that Sansa did either so I dont know if she would kill lf over his death. The sansaguard might kill lf though, i think she will eventually get away from him. Greetings, Anouk,

[Jon AS]

Hi, I dont know why everyone is such a big Sweetrobin fan.

You don't have to be a "fan" to not want a young kid who was raised by a terrible mother to die. At least I would hope that that's the normal thought process for most people.

[bluetwilight]

And besides, Sansa to marry Aegon? Poor Aegon, he can do better.

I actually think Sansa would be a good fit for Aegon, especially once she smartens up more. Even Tyrion in ASOS thought she would've made Joff a good wife and queen. Her disposition is suited for the role. Arianne could make more sense politically, but I'm not sure she'd be an effective Queen Consort of Westeros, which requires a particular temperment and character. I'd vote Margaery, but nothing in her arc suggests she'll be queen at the end. She's had too many kings already.

Unless the series ends in complete ashes (and this is Martin after all), and Dany doesn't sit on the throne, it'd be nice to have a king and queen who can bring stability.

I see Sansa as similar to Elizabeth of York, a nice pampered girl who was once engaged to a crown prince and thought she'd be a queen, but saw her world unravel and members of her family die. She was somewhat a passive person, didn't play a part in battles or major plots, but she endured and when when all was over, she became queen after all, albeit to a different king than the one she'd thought. And she was a good, beloved queen at that.