WTF, GRRM?!

[Princess of the Night]

Because, like Eddard, he believed that people were as honourable as himself. I was surprised for Catelyn not to think of such things though.

I know. Those who are like him won't live long in the books, I tell you. But seriously, he thought that a man like Walder Frey will be honorable? Really? I mean, they all worry how dancing with one of his daughters and granddaughters and what not, will create a problem, but him breaking the agreement of marrying one of them.. Yeah, that won't be a problem, we will all just apologize and everything will be fine.

I seriously get too upset about fictional characters and the things they do. This madness has to stop.

[falzer7]

So, I was about halfway through asos, and my older sis asked if i reached the red wedding yet, and I had no idea what she was talking about. Guessing from the name, I thought that a main character would die at a wedding (Dunno where I thought of that), and just assumed that it would be Joffrey's and Margaery's wedding. However, in class (grade 9) we were watching a movie one friday in french, so i started reading. It was all good until the start of the bedding, where I had the thought, "Hey, what happens when this is the red wedding? ........ Oh no..........." further provoked by Catelyn's observations of something seeming off. Long story short, I started crying in class (thank god i was at the back corner of the room, during a loud movie :P).

[Princess of the Night]

Yeah, I heard about Red Wedding before I started reading the books, I think. I also thought it would be wedding in King's Landing, or something Lannisters-related.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I really wish I had been spoiled about the Red Wedding beforehand, as it completely blindsided me. I'm not ashamed to say I threw my book at the wall in a fit. After about an hour I couldn't help but keep reading though. Without spoiling anything,I can say I'm very glad I stuck with it. AFFC and ADWD are not as good as the first 3 imo, but they are still pretty awesome. They're even better on a re-read after you've browsed through the theories on these forums, so you can pick up on all those little details and nuances that we all miss on the first read through.

[Shorty2001]

Sadly, this was spoiled for me when it was casually mentioned in a "Still Reading" section---WHICH APPEARS TO HAPPEN TOO OFTEN. Also, thank you for not putting any spoilers in the title like most everyone else.

I know what you mean. I've been reading some of the other topics and have already found out way too much that I didn't know.

[TheKingInTheNorth]

ROOOOOOBB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I stopped readin for the evening at the Red Wedding. >,_,<

[dark sister]

I was surprised for Catelyn not to think of such things though.

Well, to be fair, she DID have grave suspicions. First, when she heard that Grey Wind didn't like certain members of the Westerling family and Robb chained him up so as not to scare Jeyne, Catelyn became very scared and basically forced him to keep Grey Wind at his side, always. "Grey Wind is a part of you. To deny him is to deny yourself." Truer words have never been said. Then on the march to the Twins, she noted that this was an "evil rain" that dogged them. You could dismiss that comment as superstition, but it was true in a lot of ways. When they reached the Twins and she saw GW's reaction to the Freys coming out to meet them, she was deeply disturbed. She also pounded it into Robb's head to ask for bread and wine if none was offered before they even entered the castle. She was suspicious that Walder Frey wasn't more impolite, was disturbed and puzzled at Jinglebell's presence, and basically picked up on all the signs as they happened. When she saw one of the Freys wrench away from Dacey Mormont violently when she lightly touched his arm, dread filled her. She caught up to him and felt the iron rings beneath his clothes.

Basically, what threw her off was the fact that murdering members of one of the Great Houses after you've re-joined with them and given the gift of hospitality was so unheard of, so horrendous, that it was hard to envision it. Even for a shrewd, wise woman like Cat, such a thing was unthinkable for her, probably because she was raised sort of "old fashioned"...along with the fact that it had never been done before in the history of Westeros. I find it interesting that Merrett Frey repeated his father's words that they needed to "wash the stain from our honor" when in fact they revealed themselves to be the most untrustworthy, dishonorable, and treacherous Houses in the kingdom. What honorable house with ever ally with them again? It's my belief that The Mystery Knight has a foreshadowing of the extinction of House Frey -- just as Bloodraven ordered expensive Whitewalls pulled down stone by stone and sewn with salt, so that no one would ever remember a castle existed there, the same thing is going to happen to the Twins. In that story, too, House Butterwell has a marriage to a girl from House Frey. Ironic, huh?

Btw, I feel the OP's pain. I wept copiously when I read that chapter. I was literally sobbing :blushing: I still cry every time I re-read it. When Cat said "He is my son. he is my first son, and my last", and I remembered that her House words were "Family, Duty, Honor", it was like a dagger in my heart.

GRRM saved writing that scene for last b/c he found it so painful, too.

[Snowman3131]

Was REALLY hoping for the next few chapters that the Red Wedding was a dream...it was a terrible shock...but if GRRM wasn't such a gifted writer, it wouldn't hurt so bad. :bang:

Can we refer to it as the infamous Cat VII? :ack:

[Ser Barristan BadAss]

hahaha this is fantastic. I'm ahead of my brother and every night at dinner he tells me what's happened in Westeros, well yesterday night he said 'that's it I'm not reading it anymore, what the hell, how could that happen, what's the point without the King in the North.'

Instantly thought of the title of this thread. I remember reading it on the train and looking up and around as if to say 'anyone else see this? F*****G HELL!'

[Valkyrist]

I hated the Red Wedding. The fact that Catelyn was killed thinking all her children were dead is just heart-breaking. And poor Robb. He was such a good guy, and really the last hope for the North winning this war. The dream of a King in the North may not have happened, but they still could have retaken the North and carved some sort of peace for themselves, but the Frey's ruined everything. House Stark is basically extinct at this point, like the Reyne's of Castamere.

That said though, there were a lot of clues. For one thing, the Bolton's and Frey's discuss how Robb is losing this war at the end of book 2. Melisandre curses the three false king's of Westeros by throwing leaches into a fire, and Balon Greyjoy dies shortly thereafter. Bolton has that meeting with Jaime and agrees to send Robb his regards. And then of course there was Dany's vision of a king with a wolf's head, surrounded by corpses, and Pathface and the Ghost of High Heart's prophecies.

The worse part is, we were so close to meeting Howland Reed. Keep reading though, our heroes do enjoy some victories, and the villains recieve some crushing blows. It's the best book in the series, easily. And remember, 5 of the 6 Stark children are still alive. As Jojen says, the wolves will return... and the North Remembers.

[Horza]

For one thing, the Bolton's and Frey's discuss how Robb is losing this war at the end of book 2.

They do this and a lot more.

In the last Arya chapter of ACoK:

- After promising to take the Freys' thoughts into consideration Roose Bolton orders Helman Tallhart and Robett Glover to march on Duskendale...

- ...and then goes out hunting wolves.

- the Freys get word of Robb's marriage to Jeyne Westerling, "'My princess,' he sobbed. We've been dishonored, Aenys says."*

*Arya then says she hopes Elmar's princess dies, little knowing it's her.

[Maginor]

Moreover, Tywin who was very adamant about trying to force Robb into a military confrontation with him throughout aCoK is suddenly content with sitting in Kings Landing and doing nothing, but he implies to Tyrion that everything is under control, and he is constantly sending out letters.

[Crown]

Eventhough all of these hints I didn't see it coming.

[The Roaring Bear]

I was legitimately sad and distraught when this happened. I'm two hundred paged into AFFC and every now and then I have to set it down just because I miss Robb.

I wish they would have resurrected him with Grey Winds head instead of Catelyn.

[HyacinthGirl]

It's a horrific, ghastly scene. The music, the butchery, Walder Frey, Cat clawing at her face...the horror, the horror. But: DO NOT STOP READING.

Just...don't. There's another wedding coming up that you won't want to miss.

[Jeff_God_Of_Biscuits]

I took solace in the hope that with the Red Wedding, SOS represented the nadir for so many major character arcs*: Arya has witnessed nothing but trauma for the best part of 2 books, Sansa has flailed helplessly against the bars of her birdcage while being taunted by sadists, Jon has been forced apart from his brotherhood, only to discover and then betray love, Tyrion's steady humiliation and alienation....and now this. I hold out hope that while things might only incrementally improve over the next few books, they surely couldn't get worse.

Either way, I'm in too deep to pull out now :cool4:

*by contrast, Jaime somehow transitions from smugly loathsome to almost-likeable over the same period

[DWDF]

Spoilers abound.

Wtf Freys? Seriously? Cut down Catelyn AND Robb? Are the Starks really this doomed?

No mercy for anyone! Once the rage goes down a bit you might see it as refreshing.

Series like Sword of Truth (and 95% of fantasy) just got so freaking dull for me because the main characters all have 9 lives.

I want the good guys to win but also want some of them to die painful deaths.

[Crown]

No mercy for anyone! Once the rage goes down a bit you might see it as refreshing.

Series like Sword of Truth (and 95% of fantasy) just got so freaking dull for me because the main characters all have 9 lives.

I want the good guys to win but also want some of them to die painful deaths.

That is actually what makes most books, movies or series boring. That's why I love A Song of Ice and Fire so much.

[Arya_Stark666]

I knew Robb's end was coming... it was so inevitable. I was just shocked at how it actually happened! THAT was the really upsetting part! But then it wasn't JUST Robb, but his mom AND poor Grey Wind. It has the stink of Lannister all over it. That old coot was certainly offended but I don't think he's bright enough to think of something like that on his own. He never wanted to get involved in the war in the first place, yet all of a sudden he does something that's going to make a lot of kingdom's pissed at him.

But aye, I was extremely upset. And then I got to the epilogue. I did a little happy dance haha Oh happy day!

[Ser Dermett Corbray]

So yeah I read "RW" the other day and had a similar initial reaction. But the more I thought about it, the more I realised I would miss smaller characters like the Greatjon more than Cat and Robb. Cat has had this coming a long time, she's been utterly foolish in her grief and desire for revenge. By rights she should have been killed on the way to the Eyrie, thankfully she had a band of warriors who were strong enough to defeat the assailants. I felt bad for Robb cause he's only a young lad who's been thrown into this war but I haven't really had an emotional connection with him since book 1.

Still, an amazing scene. The little clues GRRM placed were marvellous, such as the musicians being awful and certain Frey characters being missing. I was completely sold by Walder Frey :dunce:

Edit: Regarding the scene being spoiled; firstly, I read a review of the ASOIAF calendar that said about the Robb picture, "I can't believe want happened to him!". That put a thought of his death in my mind but I wasn't 100% sure if, how or when. I then saw a picture of a mod for Medieval: Total War that included a picture of "Roose Bolton, King of North" which planted the idea of his betrayal in my mind. Both stupid, avoidable spoilers but the scene nonetheless came as quite a shock!