[ADwD Spoilers] The Hooded Man at Winterfell

[fassreiter]

I agree, I really don't know why he hasn't been considered a suspect before.

It's technically possible because we don't know how much time has passed since 'The maids that bloom in spring', but if it's true (and it was not much time for sure, so it's not even likely), we will never know it because there is no way GRRM could come back to that in terms of narrative without an awkwardly written scene in which Theon would have to ask Mance specifically about that. And they won't even meet again, I guess.

Besides, that would be just boring. We already know Mance and the girls despise Theon, and we know they committed at least one of the murders, so what would be the point? If GRRM wanted to show us a clue or something here, he needs to come back to this. This is either possible if we encounter someone we know in Winterfell (like the Blackfish), or if Theon meets 'himself' again in a less ambiguous scene (split personality theory). If not, why include the scene at all?

Also I doubt Mance of all people goes around calling people turncloak.

[Starky Smurf]

Also I doubt Mance of all people goes around calling people turncloak.

I'd have to agree with this.

[House Martell]

wasn't he singing inside as Theon walked outside......

It only says "there was music playing as he left the hall"

Also I doubt Mance of all people goes around calling people turncloak.

Mance was born a wildling, I doubt he considers himself a "turncoat", there is certainly far less honor in what Theon did as opposed to Mance leaving the NW. And he may just be sizing up Theon, seeing how he'll respond, Mance is known to test people (posing as Rattle shirt sparring with Jon)

[forgetmenot]

To me, the way it was written suggests it's not theon himself.

Benjen, the Black fish and the Brotherhood without banners wouldn't go round shoving dicks in mouths and killing kids. Also i think they would all kill theon on the spot.

Syrio has far too much style.

Jaqen may be playing the long game. A girl needs a friend

Hallis is probably sitty comfy at greywater watch with Lady Mormont and her contract legitimising Jon listening to howland tell his story of his birth.( Also i bet Arthur Dayns there too.Crackpot)

Mance doesn't care enough.

there is but one explanation, Robb. There must always be a stark in WInterfell. Yeah, Probably not.

My bets are on a Crannogman (It's about time they got their hands dirty) infiltrated or a group of them and they are trying to create a bad atmosphere leading up to a big old trick.

[Starky Smurf]

It only says "there was music playing as he left the hall"

Mance was born a wildling, I doubt he considers himself a "turncoat", there is certainly far less honor in what Theon did as opposed to Mance leaving the NW. And he may just be sizing up Theon, seeing how he'll respond, Mance is known to test people (posing as Rattle shirt sparring with Jon)

Hasn't Theon already 'met' Mance/Abel at this point? Add this together with the fact that Theon was headed AWAY from the hall (IIRC) and had basically just left Abel/Mance playing, it just doesn't make sense that it would be Mance.

My money is on a Glover.

[fassreiter]

Mance was born a wildling, I doubt he considers himself a "turncoat", there is certainly far less honor in what Theon did as opposed to Mance leaving the NW. And he may just be sizing up Theon, seeing how he'll respond, Mance is known to test people (posing as Rattle shirt sparring with Jon)

I don't think it's comparable in any way, but we know Mance had friends in the NW and knew pretty well what they thought of him, so I assumed it's just not one of his favourite insults. Just guessing here. And the spearwives had already tried to get a reaction from Theon (next to info) and have obviously reported it back, so he knows what kind of a guy he is dealing with.

Still, I really don't see any point in the scene if it was Mance, while another hidden person in Winterfell makes for a much better story later in TWOW.

[Starky Smurf]

Benjen, the Black fish and the Brotherhood without banners wouldn't go round shoving dicks in mouths and killing kids. Also i think they would all kill theon on the spot.

Why everyone insists on thinking the Hooded Man has anything to do with the killings is beyond me. IMHO, it seems to be fairly evident that the spearwives are responsible for all killings save Little Walter, and I think the money is on Big Walder for that particular death.

[House Martell]

Hasn't Theon already 'met' Mance/Abel at this point? Add this together with the fact that Theon was headed AWAY from the hall (IIRC) and had basically just left Abel/Mance playing, it just doesn't make sense that it would be Mance.

My money is on a Glover.

He's seen him in the hall, we don't know if they've chatted, or how "Hooded" the hooded man was (how much of his face could he make out?)

I'm leaning toward a "new" character as well, like I said just from the current list of suspects i'd go with Mance, but I wouldn't bet heavily on it.

[Nightstar]

It's just possible it could be Sandor Clegane.

He knows Sansa has disappeared; he knows Arya left him and rode off.

Suppose he learns that Arya is being married off to Ramsay?

So he goes to find out, realizes it isn't Arya after all, and decides to start killing?

After all, he intended to offer his sword to Robb when he took Arya to the Red Wedding.

Yes, it's a stretch, but I think it is just possible.

[tze]

It's just possible it could be Sandor Clegane.

He knows Sansa has disappeared; he knows Arya left him and rode off.

Suppose he learns that Arya is being married off to Ramsay?

So he goes to find out, realizes it isn't Arya after all, and decides to start killing?

After all, he intended to offer his sword to Robb when he took Arya to the Red Wedding.

Yes, it's a stretch, but I think it is just possible.

There are two reasons why I don't think this is possible: first, the hooded man is described as "striding"---when we left Sandor Clegane (if he really was the Gravedigger), he had a lame leg. It's very possible that the leg healed, but then there's the second problem: height. Sandor Clegane, while not as tall as the Mountain, is supposed to be one of the taller men in Westeros, while Theon is not. But the two are looking eye to eye. Although as others have pointed out, the HM could technically have been bending down without Theon noting it. But then, why wouldn't he note it?

That said, can someone strongly contradict either of those points? Cause if it's possible, I really, really, really want Sandor Clegane to be the Hooded Man. Having him randomly show up to rescue "Arya", and end up getting stuck in a castle with Mance Rayder and Ramsay Bolton during the middle of a blizzard would be the greatest thing ever.

[brashcandy]

As much as it would be great if it was Sandor, it really can't be. The physical descriptions not withstanding, he already knows that this is a fake Arya that the Boltons have conjured up. He heard about it in the inn when he met Gregor's men. So, unless he suddenly finds it necessary to rescue anyone not named Stark, I doubt this is him. If Sandor has left the Quiet Isle, I think it would have been to follow Brienne and co. in the hopes of learning more about Sansa's fate.

[House Martell]

I agree, his physical size and voice would be notable. And there's no motivation for him to be there at all.

[Prince of Winterfell]

Dead Freys? Brotherhood Without Banners/Lady Stoneheart/ Possibly Blackfish.

[Moonbloodraven]

I think it has to be one of Robb's bannermen. The mention of "turncloak", the killing of a Frey(if indeed the hooded man did some killing), in Winterfell during this blizzard. all signs point to someone who went south with Robb, or a family member/friend of one.

It's why I like Glover as a candidate. although I will say that note that he is "striding", sticks in your head and screams Mance, it's difficult to find any interesting reason for GRRM to even go that route.

I also like the SchizTheon theory as he went South with Robb, hates himself for being a turncloak, and his more confident alter-ego might be describe as striding while walking.

[Miriel]

I think it has to be one of Robb's bannermen. The mention of "turncloak", the killing of a Frey(if indeed the hooded man did some killing), in Winterfell during this blizzard. all signs point to someone who went south with Robb, or a family member/friend of one.

It's why I like Glover as a candidate. although I will say that note that he is "striding", sticks in your head and screams Mance, it's difficult to find any interesting reason for GRRM to even go that route.

I also like the SchizTheon theory as he went South with Robb, hates himself for being a turncloak, and his more confident alter-ego might be describe as striding while walking.

Perhaps a little bit more evidence towards the HM being Theon: In the chapter of Clash prior to Theon taking Winterfell, (the one where he discusses it w/ Dagmar Cleftjaw and the Tallhart heir is killed), Theon is described as 'striding' more than once.

[kephv]

Perhaps a little bit more evidence towards the HM being Theon

Not sure what you mean by this? Theon was talking to the HM as best as I recall.

[Theo1]

Right, the point is that he is split in his personality given the trauma he suffered. Not sure I still feel as strongly that this is an internal conversation, but it could be.

The majority of the responses seems to argue that the HM is good guy (meaning a Frey and Bolton enemy). Maybe because of the turn cloak comment? But, the guys comments are almost taunting and amused with Theon's plight and do not seem to reveal a hatred of him or his actions. It is sort of a bemused and distanced comment about turncloak, how is it you are still alive, then i will you you to it, etc. This reminds me of Alister's cold and taunting attitude and behavior. But, he would have to know Theon's face to have this theory fit.

[fassreiter]

I would like the hooded guy to be Sandor. That would put another one of my favourite characters in the north, and that would be good. And GRRM has to find a way to bring him back into the story, so why not here? It's true he wanted to go into northern service, and Winterfell seems a good way to start again. He can't have a clue as to where Sansa is, neither the real Arya, but he knows about the fake one. This is the only connection he has to any of the remaining Starks and their northern bannermen. His goal could have been to steal away or expose the fake Arya to destroy the Bolton's claim and help to restore Sansa as rightful heir. Yeah, it's not very convincing, but it could be.

But there is more: the hooded guy seems to be surprised to see Theon is alive because he reaches for his dagger. So this could point to the fact that the hooded guy arrived after the wedding had already taken place. Everyone present at the wedding would know he was alive. And Sandor has already been to Winterfell when Robert came to visit Ned, so maybe he knows a secret way into the castle. He would certainly know his way around. He would know Theon. Also the way the hooded guy talks is characteristic, and isn't that laugh almost a trademark of his?

The problem is that Theon should know him, of course, but that applies to almost everyone in question. As for the striding and the lame leg, I don't know. The Cleganes are nearly indestructable, maybe it got better?

I think the hooded guy might well be the Blackfish (yay!) or Sandor (yay!). Or a Glover, but that would be lame somehow.

It's also possible that it was Thorne, but why would he care about Jon Snow's dead kin? There is also the question how he passed over the Wall. And he would recognize Mance because he saw him at the execution, and that would surely lead to some questions about that, and then they would never have been able to go through with the stealing of 'Arya'.

[Buried Treasure]

I just don't understand why the hooded man has to be significant at all.

The Frey squire is found in the morning, the Flint crossbowman later that day, then the stable roof collapses overnight and Yellow Dick is found the next morning. It is that evening that Theon is wandering around and encounters the hooded man. So timeline wise there is no more indication that the hooded man was responsible for the murders than anyone else in Winterfell. Theon happens to wonder if he is responsible, but that is whilst the guy is threatening him.

The other victim is Roger Ryswells groom. There is nothing we know of to link the victims. Yellow Dick is a nasty piece of work but none of these people are of partcular consequence. If the murders were the work of a Stark loyalist acting in revenge then there are plenty of bigger fish to fry.

So these guys were murdered either because;

-they all stumbled across evidence of a plot and had to be silenced (seems unlikely as they were all killed in different places).

- somebody wanted to foster distrust and confusion and these were the unlucky people that were in the wrong place.

This is where I will second Aluminiums Link's post on the previous page saying that the spearwives are responsible for the killings. Fostering mistrust in the castle would serve their aims, and by the time of the chapter where Walder Frey dies Theon believes them to have been responsible.

So the hooded man is encountered once, calls Theon a kinslayer and is never seen again. This is not a good set-up if this is actually a significant character like the Blackfish. Any plot insignificant freerider or man-at-arms might have acted in this hostile manner towards Theon.

[Starky Smurf]

I just don't understand why the hooded man has to be significant at all.

The Frey squire is found in the morning, the Flint crossbowman later that day, then the stable roof collapses overnight and Yellow Dick is found the next morning. It is that evening that Theon is wandering around and encounters the hooded man. So timeline wise there is no more indication that the hooded man was responsible for the murders than anyone else in Winterfell. Theon happens to wonder if he is responsible, but that is whilst the guy is threatening him.

The other victim is Roger Ryswells groom. There is nothing we know of to link the victims. Yellow Dick is a nasty piece of work but none of these people are of partcular consequence. If the murders were the work of a Stark loyalist acting in revenge then there are plenty of bigger fish to fry.

So these guys were murdered either because;

-they all stumbled across evidence of a plot and had to be silenced (seems unlikely as they were all killed in different places).

- somebody wanted to foster distrust and confusion and these were the unlucky people that were in the wrong place.

This is where I will second Aluminiums Link's post on the previous page saying that the spearwives are responsible for the killings. Fostering mistrust in the castle would serve their aims, and by the time of the chapter where Walder Frey dies Theon believes them to have been responsible.

So the hooded man is encountered once, calls Theon a kinslayer and is never seen again. This is not a good set-up if this is actually a significant character like the Blackfish. Any plot insignificant freerider or man-at-arms might have acted in this hostile manner towards Theon.

I think the interest in who this mystery man is arises more from the anticipation of what he will be doing in TWOW, or even what he has done/was doing offscreen at the end of ADWD, not necessarily what he had already done at the point which we were introduced to him.