Sansa's Memory Related to Sandor III

[brashcandy]

Maybe it is a cheesy "she cant bare to look the truth in the face" deal and that is why she avoids him. Like she begs Joff to not look at her skewered father, men & Septa Mordane. Cause we know she isn't sqeemish other than when she is emotionally connected to people.

ALSO

In response to Sansa warging into Sandor in BBW, that cant have happened - we know what happens when you try to warg into a human body, the original occupying spirit fights it and there are convultions and all kinds of things. I do not recall Sandor convulsing or biting his tounge off.

Unless of course that they're such kindred spirits who have developed such an intense bond after all the looking etc, that she can warg him at will? :P

Sorry, my San/san shipping rears its ugly head sometimes :lol:

[littlespider]

Oh right, I missed it cause I am too busy pulling appart Joffreys "he looked at her but wasn't really seing her" moment when he asks about the escort.

Oh damn, that is awesome when paired with the Hound watching her.

[Caro99]

In response to Sansa warging into Sandor in BBW, that cant have happened - we know what happens when you try to warg into a human body, the original occupying spirit fights it and there are convultions and all kinds of things. I do not recall Sandor convulsing or biting his tounge off.

maybe he was way too drunk to notice it, :dunno: but i prefer brashcandy's idea about the intense bond, lol

[brashcandy]

maybe he was way too drunk to notice it, :dunno: but i prefer brashcandy's idea about the intense bond, lol

Cheers, Caro! :cheers:

[clover]

And I totally just looked at the dictionary. I am still convinced her name is a play on words. Whatever the hell the root is of sense, sensibility, sensing... She does sense things and is right about them, but she can be so wrong in real time and consciously.

Her name is beautiful and I also found a Sanza in Italy, a place that has a feast to the madonna, the mother, and I thought of her nurturing aspects.

Still thinking...

[Solaris]

Unless of course that they're such kindred spirits who have developed such an intense bond after all the looking etc, that she can warg him at will? :P

Sorry, my San/san shipping rears its ugly head sometimes :lol:

OMG, that is so, so, so pornographic in a psychic sense! I am bitterly dissapointed that I didn't indulge shipping harder! lol

Edit: BTW, I stepped out for about 45 min got in my car and went up the road. I have a big doof doof system in my car and am partial to zi technos and electros when my favourite song of all time came on... in the middle of me dissasembling the unkiss again.

If the unkiss scene were an episode of Glee, Sansa would be singing this -

I know, I'm a dag. Dont be hatin cause I ship hard. Just smile and nod.

ps Don't read the lyrics on the link they are wrong, 1/2 of it is missing.

[clover]

Well, she has something going on. And I don't think their bond is magical, warging, etc. They bonded on a human level, but it is different than this "Spidey sense" stuff she is maybe seemingly possibly demonstrating.

[bgona]

I think personal experience goes along way with these things and I know where you are coming from. His behaviour was scary and borderline moral event horizon (Even though personally I think he was more along the possibly kill her than rape her line, the whole scene had a rapey feel) and no, he doesn't get a cookie http://www.flickr.co...N00/3455427872/ for not crossing it.

It´s true. It´s a violent scene, but it´s not a rape scene. I never had that feeling. He was leaving, he wanted her to go with him, he wanted her not to be afraid of him, and that she looked at him as he looked at her. If she didn´t close her eyes, he had kissed her and we would have a completly different story. But she close her eyes, and all his rage came to him.

What he does get is the chance to make up for it. I do think people can be forgiven for acts of violence when drunk/high, but only if they accept what they did, take responsibility and try to make up for it (although it depends on the severity of it). In his travels with Arya, it seems to be playing on his mind and his death bed confession and the analyse of people like Thoros, seem to suggest he was a man in torment. Then again I think the dying to redeem yourself trope has also been done to death, so I hope GRRM avoids that as well as the "love of a good woman" trope.

He was drunk as hell. She said that never saw him that way. And even that much, he didn´t kill her nor rape her nor kidnapp her.

As for her innocence and fairytale ideas, I don't think Sandor wants to destroy them, but it makes him furious that she is so naive. It's almost as if he wants her to have a massive reality check. He has a similar tone when he speaks about the death of Hugh of the Vale: he is angry that the boy was in the Tourney because he was too inexperienced and to an extent got himself killed. It's as if Hugh thought it would all be fairytale too and his unpreparedness got him killed. Also when Sandor twice tells Tyrion about not speaking back to Joff, they are warnings about whating your behaviour.

Again I agree.

No reason to feel uncomfortable about it, in any other book it would be a WTF!!! type of thing and we won't even go there about real life. :ack: However most of the relationships the books focus on in any depth are either destructive, creepy, hateful, violent or unhappy: Jaime/Cersei, Robert/Cersei, Stannis/Selyse, Dany/Drogo, Tyrion/Tysha, Tyrion/Shae, Petyr/Lysa, Jon Arran/Lysa, Doran/his wife whose name escapes me, Ramsay/Jeyne, Theon/any woman he's been involved with and even Jon/Ygritte (she slit an old man's throat and tried to kill him), Victarion/his wife, Balon/his wife etc.

Against these we have a few like Ned/Cat, Robb/Jeyne and Davos/Marya. It's not much, so just the fact that they like each other tends to make it seem better in relation to the other relationships in the series. Evaluated on its own out of context of the books, it's fucked up beyond belief. I wouldn't say they are in love, because they are not, but there does seem to be an attraction there that may be rekindled if they ever meet again.Of course Sandor may actually be dead. :frown5:

But then there is lots in the books I am not cool with, like arranged marriages, illigitimate children being treated like shit, marital rape being "okay", the indescriminate killing of smallfolk, the complete acceptance of prostitution, the happy whore trope etc. Anyway I better stop before this becomes a full on rant.

I really think Sansa and Sandor are in a kind of love relationship (sorry but their mutual interaction changed each other, they care for each other and they have sexual desire for each other).

I feel pity that almost all the good relationship ended with a sad end (for the momento Davos and Mayra not, as far as I have read).

It´s like the autor doesn´t believe in love. Even Cat/Ned had the bastard thing between they and was an arranged marriage. Robb/Jeyne doesn´t really tell that he was in love of her, more that he felt responsibility of her losing virginity for that he married him. Almost all the relationship have a "but".

[bgona]

I just meant that I disagreed that Sandor was the only man Sansa's ever been truly attracted to. Her attraction to Loras did seem real to me, and quite strong too. And I can't really blame her -- by all accounts, Loras is quite dreamy to look at! ;)

:lol: :lol: The Loras is not a real attraction. He is so hansome that she has a sexual thought. I makes me remember thoughts that I had at that age. Sorry but remember those made me laugh.

How can I be able to explained? (The difference of attraction).

For Loras she wants to be attracted. For Sandor she is really attracted even she doesn´t want to be.

When she is out of KL she never more thinks about Loras. Instead she´s still thinking about Sandor.

And the are more hints. I amn´t so good explaining the things, but in Sansa chapters review I will try.

Anyway, I can be in a whole wrong idea. I´m not saying that my idea is the truthly, but it´s the one I got throm my reading of the books.

[bgona]

I am going to take the QI out of the equation for a moment.

In a way, I'm sure about one thing no matter where he went or what happened to him.

I think he had so many regrets about leaving her like he did, and to who and what he did. And add that to his attraction to her, his feelings for her, and the cheek touch...

He probably misses her so much, he wouldn't be able to rage and curse at her if he tried.

Of course he is not able. He speaks of her always in a sweet way.

[bgona]

Looking is not the same as seeing, or whatever Syrio Forel said. We're getting that message with both Stark daughters.

It's right before the face-fire-infodump talk, when Prince Turd asks her if she wants an escort back to the Red Keep. He yells "Dog" and the Hound appears in his craptastic x-mas reindeer sweater dog-shirt. Sansa is upset when she realizes that this was what Joff meant by an escort and Martin writes "she could feel the Hound looking at her." It's a weird moment. She's creeped out by him, fo sho, but it's odd that she would describe it that way.

When always I had feel a man looking at me had mean sexual desire.

About the warging stuff, in the beginning I thought that she did some kind of warg. After reading a lot of opinions, I´m more about the madness story. I feel so sorry. I want to be wrong: please convince me that I´m wrong!!!!!! I don´t want another Joan The Crazy!

[Solaris]

When always I had feel a man looking at me had mean sexual desire.

About the warging stuff, in the beginning I thought that she did some kind of warg. After reading a lot of opinions, I´m more about the madness story. I feel so sorry. I want to be wrong: please convince me that I´m wrong!!!!!! I don´t want another Joan The Crazy!

I sincerely regret that I lent my copy of aGoT out because I don't recall Sansa being creeped out by the Hound looking at her she just noted she could feel him. She freaked out that she was going to be all alone with him after the fact. I think, I could be wrong.

[bgona]

And I so sorry that I have that book in Spanish and not in English.

Anyway I will put the sentence here in Spanish if somebody can translate better than I do:

"A Sansa le parecía sentir físicamente la mirada del Perro."

That is more or less: "Sansa seems feel physically The Hound´s look."

Please somebody put the right sentence in English!! jajajaja.

The main word to me is physically. That changes the sentence meaning.

[clover]

Ok, so to be clear.

Something is going on maybe...but I don;t think it is warging exactly, but her family can, and she might be able to, but does her dead wolf factor in?

And it is NOT imprinting like in Twilight.

I just don't wish her to go the Ophelia route.

And true they do share a very human bond.

She senses things from Sandor and Ilyn approaching, almost like Spiderman's "spidey sense."

How many times can he catch her before she falls? Does she give off a vibe of needing him beause he seems to always appear when she does.

Some of this is out there, but after awhile when there seems to be a pattern of certain things...makes you wonder.

I am totally going to re-read all of the posts about looking, because I never thought of that before.

[Solaris]

Ok, so to be clear.

Something is going on maybe...but I don;t think it is warging exactly, but her family can, and she might be able to, but does her dead wolf factor in?

And it is NOT imprinting like in Twilight.

I just don't wish her to go the Ophelia route.

And true they do share a very human bond.

She senses things from Sandor and Ilyn approaching, almost like Spiderman's "spidey sense."

How many times can he catch her before she falls? Does she give off a vibe of needing him beause he seems to always appear when she does.

Some of this is out there, but after awhile when there seems to be a pattern of certain things...makes you wonder.

I am totally going to re-read all of the posts about looking, because I never thought of that before.

*Sansasense* it's different to spidey sense because she didn't get bitten by a radioactive direwolf.

Yes he appears just when he is needed, just like the direwolves do for her bro's and sisters (Arya being the exception, which is interesting - I would have given my left boob on a bet that Nymeria would have come after her when she left KL but she didn't)

EDIT - I'll add too that once she was separated from the Hound she had a substitue in the old blind hound @ the fingers which she tells "I wish you were lady" Just after dreaming about Sandor being as naked as his nameday....

[1234567]

I sincerely regret that I lent my copy of aGoT out because I don't recall Sansa being creeped out by the Hound looking at her she just noted she could feel him. She freaked out that she was going to be all alone with him after the fact. I think, I could be wrong.

Funny you should mention that, because I got into an argument about something similar. I don't think she was creeped out, I think she was scared or freaked out as you say. In fact I think she was just plain scared.

Creepy and Scary are similar words but have different connotations and although something can be creepy and scary, something can also be creepy without being scary and vice versa. For example climbing to the top of a tall tower and then standing on the balcony, I would find very scary. Walking down a dark alley I would find very creepy. Both are sensations of fear, but not in the same way.

[Solaris]

Funny you should mention that, because I got into an argument about something similar. I don't think she was creeped out, I think she was scared or freaked out as you say. In fact I think she was just plain scared.

Creepy and Scary are similar words but have different connotations and although something can be creepy and scary, something can also be creepy without being scary and vice versa. For example climbing to the top of a tall tower and then standing on the balcony, I would find very scary. Walking down a dark alley I would find very creepy. Both are sensations of fear, but not in the same way.

I concur there is also OMG I get to be alone with him I need to text my BFF about it scared... or the more adult when you first hook up with a guy and you cant remember if you shaved your legs and you wonder if you have drunk to much and you might say something stupid and you get worried he wont like you scared

[Caro99]

And I so sorry that I have that book in Spanish and not in English.

Anyway I will put the sentence here in Spanish if somebody can translate better than I do:

"A Sansa le parecía sentir físicamente la mirada del Perro."

That is more or less: "Sansa seems feel physically The Hound´s look."

Please somebody put the right sentence in English!! jajajaja.

The main word to me is physically. That changes the sentence meaning.

well, i would translate it as: It seemed to Sansa that she could physically feel/sense the Hound's stare/gaze...

and i agree, it sounds so weird in spanish. they added a word that was not in the actual text. i prefer the proper version cause it leaves more to the imagination. here it sounds almost as if there is a little sexual tension going on, while in the book at this point that wasn't so...

[Caro99]

:lol: :lol: The Loras is not a real attraction. He is so hansome that she has a sexual thought. I makes me remember thoughts that I had at that age. Sorry but remember those made me laugh.

How can I be able to explained? (The difference of attraction).

For Loras she wants to be attracted. For Sandor she is really attracted even she doesn´t want to be.

When she is out of KL she never more thinks about Loras. Instead she´s still thinking about Sandor.

i totally agree with you about the loras/sandor stuff. i can't remeber exactly but if the only time sansa recalls loras after she leaves KL it's when sweetrobin kisses her and she tried to pretend it was the knight of flowers she was kissing only be to betrayed by her own mind and think of sandor!! oh, sighs, so romantic, but a little frustrating she can't realize that she is sort of attracted to her. i think that if they ever meet again just seeing him will be the thing to make her finally accept she has feelings for him.

[Solaris]

Yes.... let me indulge my shippin to many a users disgust.... :blushing:

Heart in throat. Blush like crazy and discover a sudden wet spot in her underbritches which makes her blush even harder and the shame of it will make her avert her gaze and Sandor will be all ROAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"You still cant bare to look at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..... after everything I have done for you! I dragged that little she bitch cub of a sister of yours around for a month, who I am sure was going to kill me in my sleep about 5 times not to mention left me for dead under a tree! I gave up my life in KL which was pretty cushy AND YOU CANT LOOK AT ME - LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You STARKS RUINED MY LIFE"

Something like that anyway.

and with all her LF training and growing up she will say nothing at first and just blush harder because all her training means squat when she is trying to hide her feelings, she eventually pulls her shit together and says.

"YOU WERE THE ONE THAT TOOK A SONG AND A KISS AND LEFT ME WITH A BLOODY CLOAK!"

or he'll just say 'bugger this is too hard' and wander off.