Alexia Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I like the idea that he did it because although they were slaughtering all Stark retainers, he didn't want to hurt a child unless he had too. He always seems quite nice to Tommen and Myrcella.I assume that is why. I never felt it had anything to do with Sansa, but I always thought it was an interesting side note given his later bragging about women and children being meat for him to butcher. However, can you imagine how terrifying it would be to have Sandor Clegane break your door down with a warhammer?! Poor Jeyne... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugger that Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 However, can you imagine how terrifying it would be to have Sandor Clegane break your door down with a warhammer?! Poor Jeyne...Yeah, that must have been quite the experience.... :SIt just sickens me to think of everything that poor girl has been through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah, that must have been quite the experience.... :SIt just sickens me to think of everything that poor girl has been through.Jeyne's treatment makes me think Victarion should "gift" LF to his crew.I still think it is possible that Sandor kills LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 However, can you imagine how terrifying it would be to have Sandor Clegane break your door down with a warhammer?! Poor Jeyne... :eek: I never thought of that before. After reading that sentence, I just spent approximately five minutes staring at my computer screen in horror, eyes wide and jaw open, as I contemplated that idea. Oh, poor Jeyne. I hope GRRM at least lets her keep her nose. He's put that girl through enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound's She-wolf Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I wonder if we will ever hear Jeyne tell the story of how the Hound beat her door down. And then took her to her friend. I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villemo Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 another question: ASOS, when Sandor ask Arya for 'mercy', I don't understand, why he didn't kill himself.He had sword and dagger, he didn't afraid of death, so why Sandor didn't want to commit suicide? It was some sort of taboo in Westeros, as same as killing family? (especially killing brothers :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R & R Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 another question: ASOS, when Sandor ask Arya for 'mercy', I don't understand, why he didn't kill himself.He had sword and dagger, he didn't afraid of death, so why Sandor didn't want to commit suicide? It was some sort of taboo in Westeros, as same as killing family? (especially killing brothers :) )This is an interesting question. If Sandor was so far gone, and his only other option for "mercy" was denied by Arya, why wouldn't he choose to kill himself as a form of mercy?I don't suss anywhere within all of the books of ASoIaF where suicide places one on the bad side of the ledger of any of the Westerosi gods. Did I miss a thing? Okay, other than that Sandor wasn't/isn't a paricularly godly type.Great question, Villemo. Something worth asking that is probably worth its own thread on this forum.Point being that Arya pointedly did not give Sandor the "mercy", and that given he did not "mercy" himself, an option not given the slightest consideration, plus the whole Gravedigger thing, offers more proof that Sandor is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I wonder if we will ever hear Jeyne tell the story of how the Hound beat her door down. And then took her to her friend. I hope so.Jeyne would probably be less than impressed by SanSan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbird Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 another question: ASOS, when Sandor ask Arya for 'mercy', I don't understand, why he didn't kill himself.He had sword and dagger, he didn't afraid of death, so why Sandor didn't want to commit suicide? It was some sort of taboo in Westeros, as same as killing family? (especially killing brothers :) )Great question. His importance to the plot aside, I think there might be two possible reasons, neither of which hinge on any religious belief. First, Sandor's a warrior. It almost seems expected that he'd die on the point of someone else's sword. Warriors who are badass enough to kill people with swords and warhammers who then kill themselves . . . I dunno, it just feels wrong, and against the grain. Second, and most probable, imo, is that it's the GIFT of mercy. You recognize someone's suffering and you put an end to it. It feels like absolution in a way. I also think he was desperate to connect. He basically gave a last confession to Arya. Having her recognize his pain and relieve him of it is almost like an act of forgiveness, which is what I think he wanted. So maybe he couldn't kill himself because he couldn't forgive himself (stretching here). He goes on suffering as an act of atonement. (And Arya tells him point-blank where he failed her: not saving her mother and hitting her with an axe. No forgiveness there.)Jeyne would probably be less than impressed by SanSan.Ha! This might just be the understatement of the century. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headtrip_honey Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 another question: ASOS, when Sandor ask Arya for 'mercy', I don't understand, why he didn't kill himself.He had sword and dagger, he didn't afraid of death, so why Sandor didn't want to commit suicide? It was some sort of taboo in Westeros, as same as killing family? (especially killing brothers :) )I agree with Starbird, and I'd also like to add that he was in so much pain and SO mentally foggy from the wound/fever that I doubt he could do it, uh, cleanly. He was probably terrified he'd botch it and just make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessGirl Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 You guys should play the Elimination Game Prince Charming Edition in Forum Games. Sandor is a contender. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 R&R, I know you hang out in here. I responded to your comment about the Yungas Road on LJ, just FYI. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladinmesser Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Wait Sandor is still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessGirl Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Its speculated that he's the limping gravedigger on Quiet Isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villemo Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 thanks for your answers, I agree with R&R and Starbirds, but not totally :)First, IMHO Sandor's confession was in 50% confession and in 50% provocation, I'm not sure that he want her forgiveness (or: understanding). He only want quick death.Frankly speaking, I find this scene as the worst thing, that Sandor made in all ASoIaF. I know, more of us think that his biggest 'sin' were Mycah or scene in Sansa's room after BBW, but in my opinion his beg for mercy was BIG selfish. Damn, Arya was 10 years old _child_.Still I don't understand, why he didn't kill himself when Arya was gone (if Elder Brother didn't find him, Sandor will have really terrible death), but ok- I hope so GRRM need him alive, so logic can sleep :)About San/San scene after BBW - sorry, I can't find these thread, so I answer here - some people said, that it was very creepy. I don't think so :) When I read this chapter, I never thought that he want to rape Sansa. I remember these words: 'I could keep you safe. No one would hurt you again, or I'd kill them', and I understand these words that 'Sansa, come away with me, you will be safe'. Sandor don't care of Joffrey, but he know his king very very well and certainly know, what make Joff to punish his dog for theft (stealing?) king's betrothed. I don't think, that they will be safe in all Westeros. And that is the reason why I love this chapter :)(edit: BBW, Battle of BlackWater, not BBB, i was so sleepy, sorry :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Frankly speaking, I find this scene as the worst thing, that Sandor made in all ASoIaF. I know, more of us think that his biggest 'sin' were Mycah or scene in Sansa's room after BBB, but in my opinion his beg for mercy was BIG selfish. Damn, Arya was 10 years old _child_.I see what you're saying, but it's doubtful Sandor would have looked at it in the same way. Arya may have been only ten, but she already wanted to kill him, and indeed, had already tried. In fact, she was seriously considering killing him when he opened his eyes and caught her. He wasn't asking her to do anything she wasn't already planning to do. He probably saw it as giving her permission to do something that A) would ease him of his pain and B ) was something she'd been wanting to do for a long time anyway.Also, Sandor very much comes from the school of tough love. He himself killed his first man when he was 12; in his mind, 10 probably wasn't that different. And as we saw from both his conversations with Sansa and his behavior around Arya in general, he's not the type to shield a young child from the harsh realities of life. That's just not how he operates. In fact, he'd probably see it as doing Arya a favor by helping her to harden her heart early on so it's easier for her later.And even aside from those things, we have to keep in mind that Sandor was not in his right mind when he asked for the gift of mercy. He was delirious with pain and misery. It's doubtful he was thinking clearly enough to contemplate the long-term damage it could have done to Arya's emotional well-being (and anyway, by that point, the reader at least knows that Arya was far beyond being damaged by having to give the gift of mercy). He just wanted it to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimbles Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Also, Sandor very much comes from the school of tough love. He himself killed his first man when he was 12; in his mind, 10 probably wasn't that different. And as we saw from both his conversations with Sansa and his behavior around Arya in general, he's not the type to shield a young child from the harsh realities of life. That's just not how he operates. In fact, he'd probably see it as doing Arya a favor by helping her to harden her heart early on so it's easier for her later.Also shes already offed several people. Its not like he would have been the first and scarred her for life. Think of the brutality of the ticklers death or the semi-sad way she offed the guard at harrenhal, shes not exactly a an innocent little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Also shes already offed several people. Its not like he would have been the first and scarred her for life. Think of the brutality of the ticklers death or the semi-sad way she offed the guard at harrenhal, shes not exactly a an innocent little girl.Exactly. Sandor didn't know about the guard at Harrenhal, but he knew she saw some of the horror of the Red Wedding and, as you said, he saw her kill the Tickler with his own eyes -- something she did with quite a lot of vicious relish, no less (not that I blame her). He knew Arya wasn't a typical naive child, even by Westerosi standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessGirl Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Arya is a badass there's no denying that, but like Sandor I weep for her lost innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladinmesser Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Its speculated that he's the limping gravedigger on Quiet Isle.Ah thanks, I guessed I missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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