Would YOU have pushed Bran out the window?

[LadyoftheNorth72]

In AFFC, he is willing to have Tommen’s mother die, because he thinks she is a cheating bitch and deserves it. He spares no thought as to how Cersei’s execution may effect their son, nor does this ever have an effect on his decision making.

This is interesting. I did not take it that way at all. My view was (and I think he thinks at some later point) that there simply was not a thing he could do to help Cersei. He could not storm the Sept, he could not even champion her with no sword hand. I think not rushing back was one of the first unselfish, rational decisions he has ever made. He knows one of the accusations against her is incest with him. What better way to add fuel to that fire than a mad dash back to KL to try to rescue her? Also, if he is away, then people cannot look at his face nd compare it to Tommen's. There was no upside to running back to her, and tons of downside, which she would have realized too if she were rational. Also, she had very clearly cut off their affair and ordered him away from her in as ugly a way as possible. I would find myself feeling less than protective of someone who had treated me like that. And perhaps it had occurred to him that, as lousy a job as she had done with Joff, Tommen being raised without her was not the worst thing that could happen to Tommen.

I believe he starts to consider telling his remaining children the truth in a fantasy, "if only" kind of way. He has now realized his mistake in siring children he could have no contact with, and regrets it, in somewhat the same way a birth parent might question their decision to give up a child for adoption, and fantasize about being reunited with them. He does consider all the aspects and possible consequences, as well as whether the children would WANT to know.

As for his mother envy, that could also spring from his lack of one. He lost his mother at a very young age and most likely has felt that loss very keenly. I lost my dad at a relatively young age, and have often felt jealous of people whose parents got to walk them down the aisle, see their children born, etc.

[R'hllor-Is-The-Truth]

Hey, after being caught screwing your twin sister by some peeping little brat, what other choice do you have?

That's generally what I do, when I've been in that sort of situation in the past. :leaving:

Come on Jaimie is an idiot who doesn't think, he could have at least kept his dick in his pants until they got to Kings Landing. Jaimie is dishonorable, i mean he is a Knight of The Kingsguard, he shouldn't having sex with anyone forget about the Queen.

And the question of if I would push Bran out the window is irrelevant because i wouldn't be caught in the first place. I would block the doors, the windows, and everything else. I would have kept quiet. And most of all I wouldn't be having sex with the Queen when I am a Knight of The Kingsguard.

[LuisDantas]

So the question is, if you were literally caught banging your sis, the King's wife, by a boy, would you have protected yourself and her, or done the honorable thing and got beheaded?

Uh, are you seriously asking whether I would attempt to kill an innocent boy to protect my reputation? Even leaving aside the little matters of incest and adultery, that question pretty much answers itself.

And also, do you blame Jaime for his choice?

Of course I do. He is far more sympathetic in ASOS, chapter #36 or so. But even then, there is little to forgive his murder attempt at Bran.

There's a lot of people think he's such a bad guy. But the only flaw I see in him is incest (which was not so uncommon in eras such as that, anyway). The other things (pushing Bran, breaking his oath in the Kingsguard) were just unfortunate events, not his fault - damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't blame him for having to make tough decisions that no one would want to make.

Uh, are you serious?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

To the OP:

No, I would never throw a seven year old out of a tower window.

Agreed.

[Prince Alexander]

If it was as clear cut as

My life + my lover's life + 3 of my children's lives vs 1 Bran's fall // all other factors and consequences disregarded for the sake of argument.................

Yes, I would. I'd probably push at least 3 Brans for 3 of my children. Not so sure about 4. Probably not 5, definitely not more than 5. If the chance of my 3 children's death is 100% and 1 Bran's is about 75%, I'm sorry Bran, buddy.

That said... it's not so clear cut no matter what option I/Jaime chose. If this is exactly what happened to me in real life, no I would not push him. I'd try the intimidation way, then get the children and flee the country. Cowardly, but avoids potential of death/war.

[Jerritus]

Usually when I have sex with my sister, I do enjoy the view. Thus I would have chosen the same spot they did.

Throwing a kid or two out of the window is nothing out of the ordinary, either.

[Milkman34]

That said... it's not so clear cut no matter what option I/Jaime chose. If this is exactly what happened to me in real life, no I would not push him. I'd try the intimidation way, then get the children and flee the country. Cowardly, but avoids potential of death/war.

How does it avoid potential death/war? 7 year old kids don't keep secrets very well. Eventually it would come out, and when it does Robert would absolutely go to war over it.

As for the original post: 1 life of a kid I don't know vs My life, my sister, my kids, and everybody who would die during the subsequent war? Easy choice for me.

As for the people who say that because war happened anyway using preventing a war as a reason to push the kid doesn't work: If Joffrey hadn't sent the assassin to kill Bran then Jaime's action probably would have prevented the war.

[the savage]

I probably would have pushed him out the window. If it was my entire family's life, as well as my own, VS the life of a child I did not know , I know what I'd pick. Not a great choice to be making, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Jaime and I both being atheists, it's the choice that makes sense. Honor is great, but not when you're dead.

[Queensmoot]

Well there are a lot of factors in this decision, though Jaime didn't really consider them other than "the things I do for love." Setting aside the incest for a moment, this is a classic courtly love situation. GRRM has just flipped the Aliénor d’Aquitaine courtly love trope on its head, by making the Queen's Lancelot/ d'Artagnon her twin brother, and the relationship is physical, as courtly love was not supposed to be.

He really loves Cersei with all his being, until the end of ASOS anyway. He thinks of her as a paragon of beauty and perfection. He's admitted in his POVs that he really doesn't care about anything but her - including his children. (Though I'd argue he comes to love Tommen in AFFC/ADWD, as his image of Cersei cracks and fades away) Given that world view, I understand why he felt he had to do what he did.

Could I do it? No. I really couldn't, but when you're Jaime and you kill guys all the time, whats knocking a kid out of a tower to save the woman that you live and breath for? Not saying it was right - just saying I understand why he did it.

[Prince Alexander]

How does it avoid potential death/war? 7 year old kids don't keep secrets very well. Eventually it would come out, and when it does Robert would absolutely go to war over it.

Well, that was in regards to me/Jaime taking the kids and running off to Summer Islands or something, where Robert wouldn't find us. If I/Jaime stays, there'd obviously be a Lannister vs Crown war.

[Chirios]

Jaime gets a lot of criticism for pushing Bran out the window. When you ask someone if they would have done the same, most would say not. But then, would you have been caught banging your sis, the King's wife, in an abandoned old tower? Most would say not.

It's easy to say Ned is a better character or so, because he would never have [tried to] killed a little boy. But he would never have been involved in a scandal such as banging sister in the first place. Obviously, one bad deed has led to another. Perhaps Jaime did not actually want to hurt Bran, but consider his lover and sister would have been killed, alongside him, if he had not. It was a choice between a boy you did not know, and the life of the person who is most precious in the world to you.

So the question is, if you were literally caught banging your sis, the King's wife, by a boy, would you have protected yourself and her, or done the honorable thing and got beheaded?

And also, do you blame Jaime for his choice?

There's a lot of people think he's such a bad guy. But the only flaw I see in him is incest (which was not so uncommon in eras such as that, anyway). The other things (pushing Bran, breaking his oath in the Kingsguard) were just unfortunate events, not his fault - damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't blame him for having to make tough decisions that no one would want to make.

One of the ways you know that you're a bad person is if the choices you've made have led you to ask questions like: would I push a 10 year old child out of a window?

The question is irrelevant. It's entirely arguable that yes, most people would've pushed Bran out of the window, but to get to that point people would have to be Jaime, and we already know Jaime would push Bran out of the window. Most people wouldn't let themselves get to that point in the first place.

[Jem]

If I, like Jaime, had grown up as a member of the wealthiest family in the country, was powerful in my own right, had a powerful father and a sister in a position of power. If I was skilled at my profession, respected (if not always liked), and supremely confident (to the point of arrogance) that I was practically invulnerable. If I had done something illegal that could get me and someone I love killed, and the most expedient way of stopping that was to kill a person, even a child, that I didn't really know or care about - then yes, I would do it.

But me being me, someone who has never done anything wrong enough that it is worth killing over. And as someone who is not rich enough or powerful enough to get away with murder - then no, I wouldn't do it.

[The GRRumbler]

Jaime doesnt give a dam about his children, war, or whatever the only thimg he cared about that specific moment was to keep his incestuous relationship secret, nothing else.