Would YOU have pushed Bran out the window?

[Mark Antony]

Yeah, i'd rather start a war honestly then throw a 7 year old from a tower :shrugs:

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Would Ned and Catelyn have even allowed Bran to give his testimony? After all Catelyn's daughter, Sansa, was going to be wed to Joffrey. You think they'll let the 7 year old Bran's testimony leak out even ie. "I think I saw something but I don't know what I saw and yeah I nearly fell but Jamie reached out and saved me."

Most likely not, because even his own parents would likely have doubted his story. Remember how later in KL, Arya overheard the talk between Illyrio and Varys about killing Ned, and went straight to Ned with it? And Ned (in his startling wisdom) decided she had overheard some group of actors practicing its lines.

Of course, there was no way for Jaime to KNOW that when he pushed him, but I doubt the poor kid could have even gotten his story out before his parents told him to shut up, stop climbing things for gods' sakes, and go to bed without your dinner.

[Queen Cersei I]

Ned "ROBERT STOP MOLESTING MY EFFING SERVING GIRLS!!!! AND CONCENTRATE!!!!!"

:lmao:

Heh.

I gave you a "like this" vote for this sentence alone.

Good lord. That's probably what Ned thought all the time around Robert, but he was waaaay too polite to say so.

[lyvyathan]

If someone caught me with the person I love, and had the power to kill both her and my family (substituting my siblings for kids) I would probably end up pushing them from a tower. I like to think that I wouldn't do it but when it comes down to a kid I don't know versus my family I would always choose my family. I mean, it would be morally wrong and unforgivable but it's still protecting people I love.

LOL. You're scared of a 7 year old boy?? Hahahaha, Hilarious!!!

[kephv]

LOL. You're scared of a 7 year old boy?? Hahahaha, Hilarious!!!

Bran is no ordinary seven year old boy though. He's currently gaining all types of potentially dangerous knowledge and I suspect he's working for the Others. Personally, I think the only mistake Jaime made was that he didn't push him hard enough.

[lyvyathan]

Bran is no ordinary seven year old boy though. He's currently gaining all types of potentially dangerous knowledge and I suspect he's working for the Others. Personally, I think the only mistake Jaime made was that he didn't push him hard enough.

Wow, another person whose scared of a 7 year old boy. Psst... check out Moonboy and Jingle bell too.

[gls]

No, I would not have pushed Bran out the window but then again I'm not a self-obsessed narcissist, traitor, murderer, and criminal endangering the lives of my entire family through sheer stupidity in pursuit of personal pleasure.

Ahahaha. Jaime is awesome.

[Shaggydog Stark]

Ahahaha. Jaime is awesome.

Yeah a real trooper!

ETA: This is called sarcasm ;)

[lyvyathan]

:lmao:

Heh.

I gave you a "like this" vote for this sentence alone.

Good lord. That's probably what Ned thought all the time around Robert, but he was waaaay too polite to say so.

I like Robert in a way. At least he had a sense of humor. I liked how he thought 16 year old Jamie's comment about the Iron Throne was amusing.

Ned on the other hand can be a humorless intolerant idiot.

[eyeheartsansa]

I can’t say I find the consensual sibling incest as morally wrong—generally, I see it as more weird, inexplicable, sad, and incredibly gross. But I wouldn’t consider that alone as something that makes Cersei and Jaime evil, because they are two adults who made a conscious decision to go to bed together. I’d see what they do together, while pretty bizarre, is, in and of itself, less immoral than what the “good” Tyrion Lannister did to Tysha, Illaryio’s bedslave, or the unnamed Volantis prostitute. The fact that the society they live in condemns Jaime and Cersei’s behavior does not really make me think it is wrong—that’s just society. Westeros also says that the gods frown on bastards, and other such things.

Even if they weren't siblings it would still be adultery, high treason and would have still caused a major shit-storm. The incest is really just icing on the cake.

Still, I don't get all this 'starting a war' nonsense. In Westeros you can start a war if you look at someone funny. Starting a war wouldn't have bothered Jaime nearly as much as being caught.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Wow, another person whose scared of a 7 year old boy. Psst... check out Moonboy and Jingle bell too.

It is actually "who's" not "whose.". A contraction of "who is.". Just, you know, in case you wanted to add me to the club.

[LordBloodraven]

It is actually "who's" not "whose.". A contraction of "who is.". Just, you know, in case you wanted to add me to the club.

He has cast "Summon Cryptic Weirwood for grammatical mistakes" spell inadvertantly I think.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

I am not normally a grammar nazi, since I tend to make a lot of typos posting with my phone, but I just wanted to be clear in case I got added to the list of people who are afraid of 7 yr old boys bc we said we would have pushed him. :)

[Zar Lannister]

I don't think I would have pushed Bran... he would have been easily outwitted at that moment of time.

[Verboten]

LOL. You're scared of a 7 year old boy?? Hahahaha, Hilarious!!!

Only words at the start of a sentence should be capitalized, unless you're writing in German. And I'm not scared of Bran, I'm scared of the potential he has to kill my loved ones with a slip of the tongue, therefore I'd probably take the morally corrupt bastard route and throw him from a tower. I like to think I wouldn't, but I'm trying to answer the question honestly. I also think that doing so would be an unforgiveable act.

[1234567]

For once I'm with Cersei...take the boy in through the window...find out what he know and laugh it off as an argument. Who will they believe....the 7 year old........ or the two adults who are brother and sister, (so that they were intimate would be unthinkable!). It could so easily have been explained as Bran doesn't understand what he saw.

So no, I wouldn't have thrown Bran.

[lyvyathan]

Even if they weren't siblings it would still be adultery, high treason and would have still caused a major shit-storm. The incest is really just icing on the cake.

Still, I don't get all this 'starting a war' nonsense. In Westeros you can start a war if you look at someone funny. Starting a war wouldn't have bothered Jaime nearly as much as being caught.

Well, its still worth remembering that the only witness to this scandal is a 7 year old boy, son of the host you are staying with.

Starting a war based upon a good justifiable Casus belli is actually very important, esp. if you need to win supporters and sympathizers to your cause.

The Lannisters managed to win the moral high ground temporarily because the Starks overplayed their hand and kidnapped Tyrion based on poor evidence, and attempted the ill-founded palace coup.

[Boromir-Bloodstorm]

Thanks for offering your thoughts. Glad to see you arn't all as soft as cream cheese.

I just made this thread to get people to start thinking about the complexity of morality that Martin has made. Very realistic. Not black and white. Realistic complex moral choices that are not easy to make and have actual consequences.

[Queen Cersei I]


Ok fine. But IMO, Jaime did not have a good relationship with those children because of Jaime. Cersei may not have wanted him to interact with them on a frequent basis, but there were ways that he could have tried if he was inclined to. Jaime's neglect of his children is not another burden that Cersei should bear- given how most people already see her as the one who used and abused poor Jaime 


IMO, Jaime was jealous of those children. To quote from AGOT:

“Mothers.” The mana made the word sound like a curse. “I think birthing does something to your minds. You are all mad.” He laughed. It was a bitter sound.

AGOT, P. 69

Sounds to me as though Jaime is jealous of his own children. Those kids steal Cersei’s attention away from it’s rightful object, him. They invade his little self-formed fantasy world where him and Cersei are the beginning and the end, all that matter. And most of all, Cersei clearly loves them more than anything or anyone… himself included.

Initially, the unredeemed Jaime saw his kids as obstacles; things standing in the way of his relationship with their mother. And in later books, after his redemption… well, though he appears to take more interest in them. However, it seems to me as though his attitude has not changed. In AFFC, he is willing to have Tommen’s mother die, because he thinks she is a cheating bitch and deserves it. He spares no thought as to how Cersei’s execution may effect their son, nor does this ever have an effect on his decision making.

Furthermore, in ADWD, Jaime is presented as admirable and heroic by reflecting on how he should tell Myrcella the truth about her parentage. (“He thought of Myrcella. He wouldl have to tell her the truth.”) Yeah, okay, but… why? Why all of a sudden does he feel this compulsion for total, unsparing honesty? Is it indeed, as the book strongly implies (even more or less states) that Jaime, after all these years of immorality and lies, has finally broken out of Cersei’s evil thrall, and wants the truth to be known, and justice to be done? Or could his sudden desire to inform his 8 or 9 year old daughter of her mother’s duplicity be rooted in something else like, say, vengeance? Does he want to turn Cersei’s daughter against her, as retribution of Cersei’s cheating?


No, I would not push a child out of a window probably because I wouldn't be having sex with my brother in the first place! 


Your loss. You truly do not know what you’re missing. :spank:


If someone caught me with the person I love, and had the power to kill both her and my family (substituting my siblings for kids) I would probably end up pushing them from a tower. I like to think that I wouldn't do it but when it comes down to a kid I don't know versus my family I would always choose my family. I mean, it would be morally wrong and unforgivable but it's still protecting people I love.


Yes, but would you put your friends, family, or other people you love at risk willingly, for selfish reasons?

My issue with the Jaime throwing Bran thing is how some people claim it as Jaime doing what he did for love of Cersei. This reminds me of how people claim that Tyrion only killed Symon Sylvertongue for love—to protect his beloved Shae. Such people seem to forget that it was Tyrion who put his woman at risk in the first place, simply because he wanted to get off. If he’d truly loved Shae, he would have kept her out of kings landing and out of harms way, thus making him situations where he had to kill men to protect her unnecessary. Instead, he chose the fulfillment of his own selfish desires over her safety.

It was similar witih Jaime. The idea that he did it all for love of Cersei just doesn’t ring true when one considers how he so callously put Cersei at risk in the first place simply because he was horny.

[Shaggydog Stark]

Your loss. You truly do not know what you’re missing. :spank:

...and now I am worried about you ;).