The Official Appreciation Thread for The Queen in the North, Sansa Stark

[Candor]

Guess what. I will ship Sansa with whoever I want and I really don't give a damn what you think or say about it. Yes, Aegon is on that list, Sandor, perhaps Harry (I'm looking forward to meeting him and seeing what to think) and even other characters. And so far as I'm concerned, anyone who calls it undignified of me to want to see a character in a happy, fulfilling relationship by the story end can just go suck a lemon.

TWOW Spoilers Follow:

Guess what! Her brothers will die. And Sansa will be the one to kill them. She will have them all sacrificed to the old gods/Others, their entrails laced through a weirwood, before she personally knocks down the Wall and invites the Others into the North for a tea party.

:lmao:

THIS.

Woman of War, honestly I am losing patience trying to reply to you.

You will not change our minds as we are fully independent, grown women who can form our own opinions, and really your arguments are getting old and still not getting any better, either.

I liked the idea of Sansa and Aegon as it makes her the younger Queen from the prophecy. The only other way she could be the younger Queen is if Tyrion becomes King and then she is stuck with him. :ack: There seem to be some hints that she will be the younger Queen, and after everything she has suffered, it would be nice to see some pay off for her. Although it would be bittersweet as I don't think she wants to be Queen anymore.

Just because we know about feminism doesn't mean you are not allowed to think about romance and characters in a romantic light. Personally I see no difference between threads wondering who a character will end up with romantically and threads wondering who a character will end up with politically, or what faction they are likely to join.

Also the girl already has suffered and enough horrible things have already happened to her.

Edit: And she has already got a personality. She doesn't need to develop one. Develop her own personality further maybe. Personally I find her character to be one of the most realistic in terms of her actions and responses.

Also, this. Exactly, Rapsie, very much agree with you.

[brashcandy]

First, I have to see her working hard towards that (bilding snow Winterfells is not enough). And it would make me sick if LF delivers the title to her on a silver plate.

This is precisely why the Harry the Heir plan will fall to pieces. If Sansa's destiny is to rule the North then the road won't lead through another political marriage. Just like Dany turned away to Slaver's Bay, Aegon had to turn back from going to her, and Jon went into the ultimate dead end career, all the potential leaders of Westeros have taken hard paths to victory. I think that TWOW will see Sansa's arc taking a very surprising turn.

[Candor]

I think that if the Queen/King title still stands in the North at the end of the novels, or even if it does go back to being Lord/Lady, Sansa would be a wonderful ruler. She ticks major boxes for me: compassionate, intelligent, aware, politically-savvy (will be by that time), fair [as in just, not beautiful]. Though, I only want her to be a ruler if it pleases her. If it's not what she wants, then I hope she finds something else to make her happy.

I can easily see Daenerys changing succession rules, possibly to mirror Dorne's firstborn-rules rather than males jump to the head of the line. In fact I'm certain succession will get mixed around by the end of the series. Personally I also think that bastardry might not have the same stigma, just saying.

A lot of things will be different when the dust settles.

[Raksha the Demon]

Didn't Sansa think, at one time, that if she were queen, she would rule through love instead of fear? I think it was after one of Cersei's little talks with her, maybe during the battle of the Blackwater or after the riot in King's Landing.

I am not at all sure that Sansa could be a reigning queen in her own right, she has a lot of growing up to do first. On the other hand, even Elizabeth I committed a serious indiscretion in her teenaged years; and grew up to become a successful and legendary monarch. Sansa has shown many of the attributes expected in either a queen consort or a reigning queen - she is extremely observant, follows the interplay of politics and people and power even if she does not yet understand it all, has learned to control her reactions even under great stress, and can put her own fear aside to help or comfort others in times of trouble. Even Tyrion thought that Sansa would make a good queen...

I wonder whether GRRM is setting up Sansa to become queen of what's left of the Seven Kingdoms, with Tyrion on the Iron Throne as the king; which would be a very bittersweet resolution to her arc.

[1234567]

I wonder whether GRRM is setting up Sansa to become queen of what's left of the Seven Kingdoms, with Tyrion on the Iron Throne as the king; which would be a very bittersweet resolution to her arc.

Yes, this is possibly the worst fear I have and I can see GRRM doing that. However I think it would be bitter with nothing Sweet about it.

[Candor]

I like Tyrion individually but I will be pretty unhappy if he becomes king and/or stays married to Sansa. I think Tyrion would be a good Hand Of The King/Queen, perhaps a high Lord. I can't see an actual monarch being made out of him. I think he needs a higher power to answer to, for his own good.

[brashcandy]

I wonder whether GRRM is setting up Sansa to become queen of what's left of the Seven Kingdoms, with Tyrion on the Iron Throne as the king; which would be a very bittersweet resolution to her arc.

Not bittersweet, try travesty, Raksha. My fear is that political gain/success is usually paid for by the sacrifice of personal happiness. People can sit thrones, but they rarely do so easily, and time and time again we've seen characters destroyed by their acquisition of power. Ned's taking the job of Hand was a mistake, Robb assuming the mantle of King, and then thinking he could have his cake and eat it too by marrying Jeyne, Tyrion's position as acting Hand turned him into a little tyrant, and we see how ADWD ended with Dany and Jon.

If Sansa has to get into another unhappy marriage or stay in the current one in order to become a Queen then it isn't worth it. There is hope though that this new generation can turn things around (sorry Robb), so perhaps Sansa will find a way to not compromise her happiness or contentment.

[1234567]

There is also the nasty problem that Tyrion maybe a Greyscale carrier.

[only me]

I can easily see Daenerys changing succession rules, possibly to mirror Dorne's firstborn-rules rather than males jump to the head of the line. In fact I'm certain succession will get mixed around by the end of the series.

Oh yes, Seven Kingdoms ruled by women. It is still the GRRM`s creation we are talking about?

[Candor]

There is also the nasty problem that Tyrion maybe a Greyscale carrier.

Him and Jon Connington.

Oops, guys. Hope you're not contagious.

[Candor]

Oh yes, Seven Kingdoms ruled by women. It is still the GRRM`s creation we are talking about?

:lol:

Absolutely it's still his creation, only me.

I've read the books, and yes, he does seem to make it to where women could just as easily become the rulers.

[headtrip_honey]

Oh yes, Seven Kingdoms ruled by women. It is still the GRRM`s creation we are talking about?

GRRM is the one who introduced the idea, which is floating through many different storylines.

-Asha and her Queensmoot

-Arianne's inheritance, and her support of Myrcella

-Cersei's quest for power, massive failure though it may be

-Daenerys Targaryen, anyone?

Personally, I think the Northmen more than anyone would be supportive of a ruling Queen. So long as she is strong, a Stark, and holds them together? Hells yes.

[brashcandy]

Oh yes, Seven Kingdoms ruled by women. It is still the GRRM`s creation we are talking about?

Asha - Iron Islands

Arianne - Dorne

Sansa - North/Vale

Arya - Riverlands (via Nymeria) - (part of the iron islands officially)

Cersei - Westerlands

The Stormlands- Shireen Baratheon

The Reach - Myrcella Baratheon

Dany of course will be the figure head Queen and will settle disputes amongst the kingdoms :P

[headtrip_honey]

How does Myrcella get the Reach? ::confused::

[brashcandy]

How does Myrcella get the Reach? ::confused::

She'll marry Willas Tyrell

[headtrip_honey]

She'll marry Willas Tyrell

:\

I hope not. What about Trystane? (I know nothing about WoW...)

[brashcandy]

:\

I hope not. What about Trystane? (I know nothing about WoW...)

I think the Trystane match is over for good. Myrcella is on her way back to KL and I think the Tyrells will attempt to arrange a marriage between her and Willas to consolidate their hold over KL.

[headtrip_honey]

I think the Trystane match is over for good. Myrcella is on her way back to KL and I think the Tyrells will attempt to arrange a marriage between her and Willas to consolidate their hold over KL.

Bugger. I thought Myrcella/Trystane was so sweet.

[only me]

:lol:

Absolutely it's still his creation, only me.

I've read the books, and yes, he does seem to make it to where women could just as easily become the rulers.

Lucky you:). I only saw women pictured as sexy revenge angels (Sand Snakes), fair maids or camp followers and that the women actually in power (Cersey, Dany) were total failures at it. Their clothing (or rather the lack of it) was given in far more detail than anything they had to say. Asha, the Mormont ladies and the free folk were the only ones with some content from the independent women`s poin of view. But that is OK, it is GRRM`s world.

But then, I must be an old jaded feminist.

[brashcandy]

Lucky you:). I only saw women pictured as sexy revenge angels (Sand Snakes), fair maids or camp followers and that the women actually in power (Cersey, Dany) were total failures at it. Their clothing (or rather the lack of it) was given in far more detail than anything they had to say. Asha, the Mormont ladies and the free folk were the only ones with some content from the independent women`s poin of view. But that is OK, it is GRRM`s world.

But then, I must be an old jaded feminist.

If you were an old jaded feminist I would think you would still at least have come up with a more accurate appraisal of the role of women in the series. Don't tell anyone, but it's really exciting. Try doing a reread and I'm sure you'll notice more than the lack of clothing.