The Black Library

[nickg]

Cheers for the advice, I'll get started on Ravenor in the next few days. It was either that or start Ender's Game.

Yeah I really liked Eisenhorn's character too, and the way he slowly became more heretical.

About the next book in the trilogy, is that going to be following Bequin and her story?

There is a summary for the book on the black library website in the coming soon section. It is somewhat spoilery though ( it mentions characters in the summary ).Link for it:

http://www.blacklibr...cts/pariah.html

Has anyone read any of the Necromunda stories? I'm interested but the books aren't cheap at $30 for each omnibus.

[Onion Smuggler]

There is a summary for the book on the black library website in the coming soon section. It is somewhat spoilery though ( it mentions characters in the summary ).Link for it:

http://www.blacklibr...cts/pariah.html

Has anyone read any of the Necromunda stories? I'm interested but the books aren't cheap at $30 for each omnibus.

Whoahhh, I wasn't expecting that. The last rumours I heard were that it was going to be following Bequin as I said. I dunno if I like the idea of the two coming head to head, but we'll see.

[nickg]

I was under the same impression ( I had heard it called the Bequin Trilogy before ) until a few days ago when I saw that summary.

[Lord of the Night]

I was under the same impression ( I had heard it called the Bequin Trilogy before ) until a few days ago when I saw that summary.

It still is. The third Inquisition trilogy is officially titled the Bequin Trilogy, or unofficially its also titled Eisenhorn vs Ravenor. Its gonna be epic!

LotN

[Jon AS]

So I figured I'd pass the time until my copy of Mass Effect 3 gets here with some easy reading and picked up Know No Fear. Abnett's descriptions of large-scale military operations and the ensuing explosions still bore me to tears (it's like the literary equivalent of a Michael Bay movie), but once all hell has well and truly broken out and the story focusses on smaller groups of survivors it gets much more readable and, dare I say, enjoyable, various predictable clichés notwithstanding (the reason for Thiel's censure really made me roll my eyes...).

The Ultramarines' ability to come back from such a devastating surprise attack seems almost mary-sue-ish, but I guess one has to cut them some slack for being cursed with one of the silliest names of all the Marine Chapters.

Biggest thing backgroundwise (though fairly minor in the novel itself) seems the reintroduction of Ollanius Pius. Has this guy had any official mention since 1st edition? And has it ever been mentioned that he is immortal, fought at Verdun and Austerlitz and travelled with the freaking Argonauts?

That's not a rhetorical question, by the way. Has he or any character like him (John Grammaticus?) been mentioned in any other novel? Because right now I have no idea what the fuck his purpose is supposed to be, except that he'll somehow end up on Horus' flagship when the Emperor comes to pay his favourite son a visit.

[Lord of the Night]

So I figured I'd pass the time until my copy of Mass Effect 3 gets here with some easy reading and picked up Know No Fear. Abnett's descriptions of large-scale military operations and the ensuing explosions still bore me to tears (it's like the literary equivalent of a Michael Bay movie), but once all hell has well and truly broken out and the story focusses on smaller groups of survivors it gets much more readable and, dare I say, enjoyable, various predictable clichés notwithstanding (the reason for Thiel's censure really made me roll my eyes...).

The Ultramarines' ability to come back from such a devastating surprise attack seems almost mary-sue-ish, but I guess one has to cut them some slack for being cursed with one of the silliest names of all the Marine Chapters.

Biggest thing backgroundwise (though fairly minor in the novel itself) seems the reintroduction of Ollanius Pius. Has this guy had any official mention since 1st edition? And has it ever been mentioned that he is immortal, fought at Verdun and Austerlitz and travelled with the freaking Argonauts?

That's not a rhetorical question, by the way. Has he or any character like him (John Grammaticus?) been mentioned in any other novel? Because right now I have no idea what the fuck his purpose is supposed to be, except that he'll somehow end up on Horus' flagship when the Emperor comes to pay his favourite son a visit.

I disagree heavily on you with the quality of KNF, I think its the best HH novel in the entire series and Abnett's best work. And I thought the reason for Thiel's censure was almost tragic, he had the right mindset all along and nobody listened to him. And how exactly was the comeback of the Ultramarines mary-sueish? They lost 3/4 of the entire Legion in that battle, at least 200,000 marines died. And they only won through by sheer determination and strategical fighting, and even then the war wasn't over, they just bought themselves a reprieve until The Underworld War began.

And John Grammaticus is a character in the HH novel Legion. He plays a fairly big part. A lot of people think that Pious and Grammaticus are part of the Star Child conspiracy and the Illuminati. What is known is that Pious and Grammaticus are older than the Emperor and will play a very big role in things to come.

LotN

[Jon AS]

What is known is that Pious and Grammaticus are older than the Emperor and will play a very big role in things to come.

Where's that from? IIRC the most exact info on the Emperor's age dates back to 1st edition as well, and has him born around 80000BC.

ETA: As to the quality of the book: there's simply very little reason to care for any of the characters. I don't know them and they get very little characterisation between being stalwart designated good guys.

The most emotionally satisfying moment in the book actually revolves around Kor Phaeron*, because I know him and want him to die, even though everyone knows he's going to stick around for at least another 10,000 years...

*

I speak of course of the moment he gets one of his hearts ripped out. Even small amounts of punishment can be satisfying.

[jurble]

Completely unrelated question but:

Does the transformation to a Space Marine remove external genitalia? From what I can tell, they lose their sex drive in the transformation, so it stands to reason that they no longer have external testes, right?

[Jon AS]

Does the transformation to a Space Marine remove external genitalia? From what I can tell, they lose their sex drive in the transformation, so it stands to reason that they no longer have external testes, right?

For some reason this question really seems to come up relatively frequently on 40k forums.:P

The process is only ever described in terms of adding extra organs and applying plenty of high-tech indoctrination and education methods.

IIRC there's also at least one Space Wolf with fully functioning sex drive (and organs) in the Ragnar novels, though he is a bit of an aberration in some ways. And come to think of, Ragnar, being an adolescent about to get it on with his girlfriend when he was recruited, might have made a note if he was suddenly missing something in this area...

But the real answer is probably that GW never really thought about the whole thing all that much.

[Nukelavee]

Jon - but they keep changing teh details of teh Emperor's "birth". I've seen things giving him a much later creation.

I thought Grammaticus took a walk outthe airlock at teh end of teh Alpha Legion book

Also - Started Outcast Dead yesterday. So far, so good, and it seems to be being used to connect up certain elements of the other books.

ie, It features the Astrophaths, so we get episodes of them putting various messages together, and seeing teh whole picture. Well, it seems like, I'm not that far yet, but they have just linked Thousand Sons to the narrative.

GADZOOKS!

err, ETA

well, Magnus just showed up - it's the exact passage from 1k Sons

[nickg]

Finished Galaxy in Flames today. Skimmed large portions of it, which is something I rarely do. Disappointing book, especially for the final volume of the opening trilogy.

I started Flight of the Eisenstein which is a big improvement over Galaxy even if im only 20 or so pages in.

[Jon AS]

Jon - but they keep changing teh details of teh Emperor's "birth". I've seen things giving him a much later creation.

As I said: anybody got any details on that? I've certainly not seen anything that supercedes the old story, just that newer source material doesn't seem to go into detail about his origins at all.

As for Grammaticus, I haven't read Legion, but

He contacts Pius in Know No Fear. Of course it's psychic communication, so it doesn't mean he can't have done it before dying. The Warp is such a convenient plot device.

[jurble]

So I finished Deliverance lost. Man, I loved the scene where Alpharius and some tech-priest are traipsing along in some toxic wasteland, and Alpharius is creeped out that the tech-priest requires no gas mask or anything to survive in the wastes. I just love the idea that tech-priests are so inhuman that Primarchs get weirded out by them.

edit: Finished Know No Fear too. Damn

Kor Phaeron's sorcery made Guilliman look powerless. Seeing a Primarch being so easily defeated is weird.

And on Oll (and John Grammaticus)

So the Emperor is not the only super-psyker around? I thought he was, you know, tens of thousands of Shamans reincarnated into one body. So what's up with John Grammaticus and Oll?

Moreover, isn't the whole point that in the dark, grim future that the amount of psykers is increasing, so if a handful of ancient super-psykers existed like the Emperor, Grammaticus, and Oll, shouldn't, therefore, the future be full of zillions of Emperor-level psykers?

[Jon AS]

And on Oll (and John Grammaticus)

According to Lexicanum, Grammaticus is only about a thousand years old. And Oll doesn't appear to be a psyker, more something like the Sensei.

Regarding human psykers: in the original origin story, there were human psykers who all sacrificed themselves to create the Emperor. After that, there were few to none psykers for milennia, though at some point the ability resurfaced, either through natural mutation or artificial process like the creation of the Navigatiors, but it only really took off during (and was presumably a major cause for) the Age of Strife.

[jurble]

Also,

Oll keeps mentioning his god, and grasping some symbol. Is it the Emperor?

Also, he's definitely a Psyker, he cuts a hole in reality at the end of the book! If he isn't a powerful Psyker, traversing the Warp without a Gellar field will lead to instant-death.

[Jon AS]

I've never been quite clear on whether there is a difference between a psychic powers and sorcery in 40k. I usually assume that sorcery allows non-psykers to channel the Warp through ritual (i.e. what Oll does), but since GW is so clearly uninterested in creating a consistent "canon" background that might not be correct.

[Lord of the Night]

Kor Phaeron's sorcery made Guilliman look powerless. Seeing a Primarch being so easily defeated is weird.

That is true but the thing about that scene that scared me was simply that it was Kor Phaeron and not Erebus or Lorgar who did it. Phaeron isn't even a real Astartes, he was too old to become one so he got the treatments and upgrades that put him half-way between human and Astartes, and yet he dropped a Primarch. And he is relatively new to opening himself up to his Chaos powers at this stage so he isn't as experienced as he is in 40k. So if he could drop a Primarch in 30k, what the hell can he do in 40k?

Also,

Oll keeps mentioning his god, and grasping some symbol. Is it the Emperor?

Also, he's definitely a Psyker, he cuts a hole in reality at the end of the book! If he isn't a powerful Psyker, traversing the Warp without a Gellar field will lead to instant-death.

I think its the Judeo-Christian God he is thinking about. He's old enough to remember Christianity, perhaps he genuinely believes in God.

And actually the reverse is true. A normal soul would be safer and attract far less attention than a psyker. A normal person's soul would be like a candlelight in the warp but an powerful psyker's would be like a burning beacon for miles. That said entering the Warp without a Gellar Field period almost-always leads to death, even the Traitor Legions use them.

Finished Galaxy in Flames today. Skimmed large portions of it, which is something I rarely do. Disappointing book, especially for the final volume of the opening trilogy.

I started Flight of the Eisenstein which is a big improvement over Galaxy even if im only 20 or so pages in.

I enjoyed Galaxy in Flames though I agree its not as good as the previous too. Might I ask though what did you think of...

Loken's death? And that of Torgaddon and Qruze's defection. And of course the Istvaan Betrayal. Lots of awesome stuff happened in Galaxy in Flames even if it wasn't as good as the others.

Flight of the Eisenstein is awesome. And it features Nathaniel Garro whose story is something that many are interested in seeing where it ends, and theorizing on it.

LotN

[Nukelavee]

Jon - psykers actually touch/tap the warp, running the risk of corruption. The more often, or the more power they draw on, the greater the risk. Also, psykers seem to have personal limits - it's possible to "self-destruct", ifyou overload your power's limits.

Sorcery? Well, the Eldar use runes as ways to access the warp's powers, without directly touching the warp. Kind of like using waldos to handle toxic materials.

Talismans, artifacts, etc, serve the same functions for others, and/or allow a user to access even more power than they can personally wield. Pacting with a power, or familiar allows the wielder similar benefits. And risks. Always with the damn risks.

[Lord of the Night]

I've never been quite clear on whether there is a difference between a psychic powers and sorcery in 40k. I usually assume that sorcery allows non-psykers to channel the Warp through ritual (i.e. what Oll does), but since GW is so clearly uninterested in creating a consistent "canon" background that might not be correct.

Psykers tap into the energies of the Warp. Dangerous but not inherently corrupting despite what the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition say.

Sorcerers tap into Chaos directly. Tzeentch is the primary source but Slaanesh and Nurgle and some lesser Daemons can supply that kind of power, but sorcery is a direct link to Chaos and IS corrupting. Though anyone who can actually use sorcery is a bit past the initiation stage.

LotN

[Jon AS]

I think its the Judeo-Christian God he is thinking about. He's old enough to remember Christianity, perhaps he genuinely believes in God.

Of course he predates both Judaism and Christianity...

Jon - psykers actually touch/tap the warp, running the risk of corruption. The more often, or the more power they draw on, the greater the risk. Also, psykers seem to have personal limits - it's possible to "self-destruct", ifyou overload your power's limits.

Sorcery? Well, the Eldar use runes as ways to access the warp's powers, without directly touching the warp. Kind of like using waldos to handle toxic materials.

Talismans, artifacts, etc, serve the same functions for others, and/or allow a user to access even more power than they can personally wield. Pacting with a power, or familiar allows the wielder similar benefits. And risks. Always with the damn risks.

Psykers tap into the energies of the Warp. Dangerous but not inherently corrupting despite what the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition say.

Sorcerers tap into Chaos directly. Tzeentch is the primary source but Slaanesh and Nurgle and some lesser Daemons can supply that kind of power, but sorcery is a direct link to Chaos and IS corrupting. Though anyone who can actually use sorcery is a bit past the initiation stage.

The Warp, being the psychic echo of all sentient minds in the galaxy, is pretty much interchangeable with Chaos. The question I was pondering was whether you need to be a psyker to use sorcery, it seems to me that GW never made that explicit.

I'd say Eldar runes are also a form of sorcery, but all Eldar are psychic. Their way of avoiding the dangers of Chaos is to wear spirit stones (to absorb their essence upon death) and to use the Webway instead of the Warp proper for interstellar travel.