The Black Library

[Lord of the Night]

The Warp, being the psychic echo of all sentient minds in the galaxy, is pretty much interchangeable with Chaos. The question I was pondering was whether you need to be a psyker to use sorcery, it seems to me that GW never made that explicit.

I'd say Eldar runes are also a form of sorcery, but all Eldar are psychic. Their way of avoiding the dangers of Chaos is to wear spirit stones (to absorb their essence upon death) and to use the Webway instead of the Warp proper for interstellar travel.

Not really. There was once a time when Chaos did not exist in the Warp. True they've since become the dominant form of life in it but the Warp itself isn't totally tainted, its dangerous to call upon but in the end its just energy, energy that can be harnessed with risk. But to answer your question anyone can learn Sorcery, Psykers are those who can tap into the warp naturally and without making any deals or bargains. A Sorcerer is just someone whose bargained with Chaos for that type of power.

Eldar do not use sorcery. They use psychic powers on a much higher level than what humans can do so it can appear like magic, but in the end its just more advanced psyker powers. The Eldar are very strict about Warp exposure, the Dark Eldar are even stricter. Using psychic powers in Commorragh is a guaranteed death sentence if you are caught, or sometimes even suspected. Even bringing a psyker into Commorragh is grounds for death, its that dangerous.

LotN

[Nukelavee]

The runes really are a means of using the warp, without actually "touching" it. The spirit stones are, well, without them, an eldar soul is virtually certain to become part of Slannesh.

LordotN explained it pretty well, more exact than I did for sure.

[Jon AS]

But to answer your question anyone can learn Sorcery, Psykers are those who can tap into the warp naturally and without making any deals or bargains.

Is there a source for that, is what I'm wondering?

ETA: Warp/Empyrean/Immaterium etc. is generally used interchangeably with Chaos, but is distinct from the Chaos Powers/Chaos Gods/Ruinous Powers etc. which are simply powerful, sentient entities within the Warp that were created by the (negative) emotions of mortal minds.

[Lord of the Night]

Is there a source for that, is what I'm wondering?

ETA: Warp/Empyrean/Immaterium etc. is generally used interchangeably with Chaos, but is distinct from the Chaos Powers/Chaos Gods/Ruinous Powers etc. which are simply powerful, sentient entities within the Warp that were created by the (negative) emotions of mortal minds.

Pretty much that. And that all Ssorcerers in the series have been Chaos, and did not seem to display any power beyond what they had. Some sorcerers are psykers but they are all psykers who have embraced Chaos and learned sorcery as part of the bargain. Sorcery is more powerful than psychic powers, but it has a far heavier cost.

LotN

[Werthead]

The Black Library Live event was held in Nottingham on last weekend and some interesting info emerged:

The Horus Heresy series still has a fair way to go. The series will shortly be entering the 'dark age' of the war, seven years of conflict before the Siege of Terra where relatively little is known. This sequence will be explored thoroughly before they get to the Siege. After that, there will lilkely be books set between the Siege and the present day of the setting, exploring the fall-out from Heresy storylines in greater depth. However,some known stories from the Heresy will not be turned into novels as there's not much to add to what is known (the Lion and the Wolf - the beginnings of the quasifriendly rivalry between the Blood Angels and Space Wolves - will not be a novel, apparently, despite its popularity with fans).

Apparently there will be a Horus Heresy 'multimedia event' next year. Some fans have speculated this might be a computer game or a second CGI movie, but GW wouldn't say anything else about it. More announcements closer to the time, apparently.

[Jon AS]

After that, there will lilkely be books set between the Siege and the present day of the setting, exploring the fall-out from Heresy storylines in greater depth.

I assume by this they mean the Scouring era, because otherwise they've got 10,000 years of Imperial history to cover (and technically some stuff like Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn or Ravenor is already set before the "current" date of 40k).;)

However,some known stories from the Heresy will not be turned into novels as there's not much to add to what is known (the Lion and the Wolf - the beginnings of the quasifriendly rivalry between the Blood Angels and Space Wolves - will not be a novel, apparently, despite its popularity with fans)

Pity, might actually have been fun to get these two very different Primarchs into a story together. I thought Russ' portrayal in Prospero Burns, in a way just as arrogant as Magnus in his conviction that he is completely right and justified (and just as wrong in that belief), one of the more interesting aspects of that novel. And ADB's version of Jonson in his short story in Age of Darkness, someone so guarded he probably can't properly connect with most people on an emotional level, seemed kinda cool as well.

[Nukelavee]

Man, I just want some info on the lost Chapters of Space Marines, the 2 that are never, ever spoken of in the narrative, but who have slots in the OOB (order of battle).

[jurble]

Man, I just want to jump to 50k.

Strangely enough, though, the Ciaphas Cain novels framing takes place in 41k or later.

[Lord of the Night]

Man, I just want some info on the lost Chapters of Space Marines, the 2 that are never, ever spoken of in the narrative, but who have slots in the OOB (order of battle).

That will never happen. There is no actual answer as to what happened to the Lost Primarchs and their Legions, only hints, rumours and hearsay. They are there so that players can create their own Space Marine Chapters and use the Lost Legions as backstory, but their actual fate will never be revealed since there isn't one.

LotN

[Werthead]

Strangely enough, though, the Ciaphas Cain novels framing takes place in 41k or later.

Yup. Has the 'current' year moved on in the setting at all? Last time I'd looked it'd been 40,999 AD for years. I suppose they'll wait until the next edition comes out before moving things on (and the next edition shouldn't be too far off, as by the end of this year more time will have elapsed than between the previous two editions).

[jurble]

Do they even have any incentive for another board-game edition? The Black Library is more or less printing money for them these days. Dawn of War and Space Marine also mean they're getting that sweet vidya game cash.

[Nukelavee]

Cannot - Yeah, teh incentive is always there. They move an ungodly amount of figures and rules sets/army lists. If they don't switch things up in the rules, people would craft their ideal armies, and stop buying figs.

[Switchback]

So it seems from reading through this thread a bit, that this universe is incredibly vast, with all sort of history and myths and details. How does that work for these things? Is there a group of people at Games Workshop who have come up with the history, or are the individual authors responsible for adding to the history, always being sure to check the continuity with what other authors have written? Or were the early gamers involved the ones who laid out the basic history of the place?

Anyway, it all sounds pretty fascinating. I think I'll check out a few of the books.

[Lord of the Night]

So it seems from reading through this thread a bit, that this universe is incredibly vast, with all sort of history and myths and details. How does that work for these things? Is there a group of people at Games Workshop who have come up with the history, or are the individual authors responsible for adding to the history, always being sure to check the continuity with what other authors have written? Or were the early gamers involved the ones who laid out the basic history of the place?

Anyway, it all sounds pretty fascinating. I think I'll check out a few of the books.

Basically the lore for each army is written down in each army's Codex, the rulebook to playing them which contains heavy amounts of lore. The authors work within that but they can add to it in their own ways. Abnett created an entire warzone that spans 1000 worlds called The Sabbat Worlds Crusade, and there was an anthology of stories just set in that warzone by a bunch of authors. They cannot alter the lore but they can add to it.

The history, or basically the Horus Heresy, was written by Alan Meritt and has changed a great deal from its original incarnation, in which Horus was a renegade Planetery Governer lol, but the current format will not be changed. They are happy with how it is.

LotN

[Jon AS]

So it seems from reading through this thread a bit, that this universe is incredibly vast, with all sort of history and myths and details. How does that work for these things? Is there a group of people at Games Workshop who have come up with the history, or are the individual authors responsible for adding to the history, always being sure to check the continuity with what other authors have written? Or were the early gamers involved the ones who laid out the basic history of the place?

The setting started out as a semi-parody (still reflected in many, many details, like the most infamous Ork warlord of all times being named after Margaret Thatcher or the marines in blue armour being named Ultramarines...) with just the baseline of "Warhammer* IN SPACE". So it has space orks, space elves ("Eldar"), space daemon worshippers and at least at one point had space dwarfs etc.

Apart from a few big "historic" events (which also get rewritten whenever GW feels like it, though the most basic details tend to stay the same), it's mostly governed by "rule of cool": if something sounds good at first glance (or looks like it'll sell a lot of miniatures) they'll throw it in, no questions asked. Since the setting theoretically spans the entire galaxy and the Warp's main feature is that it can be used to exlpain whatever the plot of the moment requires, it usually works out in some way.

*GW's older, slightly more serious fantasy setting

[Onion Smuggler]

On the subject of the original Warhammer, are there any stand out books which are set in that world? I know about good 40k books but I've never really heard anyone talking about warhammer books to the same extent.

Also as previously stated BL authors can make up galaxys or systems to house their settings. Abnett's Sabbat worlds are also known as 'the Daniverse'.

[Antonius Pius]

Finished Horus Rising a few days ago. I went straight on with False Gods. So far I like Fals Gods better, but I'm only 50 odd pages in.

Horus Rising was OK, but in the beginning I almost put it down several times. Then when they got to planet Murder (around 200 pages in), it had me in it's grip. Not a vise-like grip, but I suddenly had a hard time putting it down. There wasn't really any character that really stood out, and some things feel rushed, but the overall-storyline still managed to draw me in.

[Nukelavee]

Most of teh way thru "Outcast Dead"

I'm gonna raise something I mentioned a while ago- The Emperor, and his fate. At this point, I gotta say, teh BL is definitely pinning down aspects of that, and yes, it feels like a move towards something about his status changing after 41k.

Warning - the following spoiler covers a lot of things from a fair number of the HH books, be warned. LotN might be the only person who can dare read it. mwhahaahaha.

I'm seeing a lot of things that indicate teh Emperor knows, well before Horus hits Terra, how it is all going to play out. This book, for one, alludes to it. So did Thousand Suns (Magnus vision of "him" on the Golden Throne is reinforced in this book. There's also a concept, that the Primarchs aren't intended to be what we think, but that each one is tailored for a role, like Magnus powering the Throne, and that the Emperor has seen far beyond his death.

[Galactus]

It should also be noted that the vast majority of fluff is written from an in-universe POV, providing an explanation for any contradictions.

*GW's older, slightly more serious fantasy setting

I'd question that. It's the setting with goblin-shooting catapults, giant lighting-shooting hamster wheels, more rat-puns than you can shake a stick at (ratling guns, corateral damage...), lizardmen with names like Itzi-Bitzi and Tenihuini, ships shaped like giant hats and helicopters powered by booze.

[Jon AS]

I'd question that. It's the setting with goblin-shooting catapults, giant lighting-shooting hamster wheels, more rat-puns than you can shake a stick at (ratling guns, corateral damage...), lizardmen with names like Itzi-Bitzi and Tenihuini, ships shaped like giant hats and helicopters powered by booze.

Yeah, but overall to me WHFB just seems to have been slightly less silly and insane than 40k back when the latter was first created. Maybe it's just a question of scale for me, the one Warhammer world vs. a whole galaxy of madness.